# It's meat. Get over it. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 21, 2013, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-meat-get-over-it/664144 "2013-07-21T23:40:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2013, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-meat-get-over-it/664144/101 "2013-07-26T16:09:14Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > I think the worst example of that I ever saw was someone referring to Australian Aborigines as African-American. Wrong on both counts :smack: The worst example I saw was some black woman from somewhere other than Africa, but not the US, won a race, and some US media outlet described her as “the first African-American of _any_ nationality” to win the race. ---
**Author:** ![Tacit\_Knowledge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f17d59/32.png) [@Tacit\_Knowledge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tacit_Knowledge)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2013, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-meat-get-over-it/664144/102 "2013-07-26T16:15:28Z")
Two of you guys had some good information on why Catholics consider fish something other than meat. Thanks. > [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > I’ve been reading this thread trying to get a handle on the OPs point, and it’s dumb as hell. > > So, the OPs beef is that we don’t refer to all animal flesh as “meat”? Really? That’s fucking it? > > Get the fuck over yourself. American English is one of the few languages where it might be an issue. > > Guess what? We have a perfectly good word for animal flesh. It’s flesh. > > Like a bazillion posts have just pointed out, meat usually refers to the flesh of only certain animals. Just like “Americans” is understood to mean people from the US, no matter how much mouth-breathing pedants want to claim it can mean people from virtually anywhere in the Western Hemisphere. > > If you want a general word, use the word flesh, you dolt! No chance of being misunderstood then. I don’t care what you think meat “refers to” in casual speech. Do you yourself argue that fish is NOT meat? If so, you’re one of the idiots I’m speaking against. If you know and accept that fish is meat then you’re not. So, is a vegetarian told you that he does not eat meat of any kind - while he’s gnawing on a fish pattie, what would your reaction be? Meat or not? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2013, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-meat-get-over-it/664144/103 "2013-07-26T16:29:42Z")
> [@Tacit\_Knowledge](#): > > So, is a vegetarian told you that he does not eat meat of any kind - while he’s gnawing on a fish pattie, what would your reaction be? Meat or not? Then he’d be a “pescatarian” to me (although that’s not a common word, IME), or a vegetarian who also eats fish. I personally do not use “meat” in this manner because of the confusion it causes. My reaction would be: "OK, I see how that can be considered ‘not meat,’ but it’s also not really ‘vegetarian.’ " When somebody says they are “vegetarian,” my default assumption is not dead animal flesh of any kind, but there are so many different flavors of vegetarian that I specifically ask. Some self-labeled “vegetarians” I know eat fish. I personally don’t call that “vegetarian,” but what do I care? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2013, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-meat-get-over-it/664144/104 "2013-07-26T16:33:53Z")
Also, I don’t think it’s just the Catholics that consider “meat” and “fish” separate. Doesn’t Judaism treat them differently? Like the prohibition against meat and dairy doesn’t apply to, say, lox and cream cheese. Or does it? So far as I can tell from Googling, they are considered separate. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2013, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-meat-get-over-it/664144/105 "2013-07-26T16:56:52Z")
The prohibition has nothing to do with the definition of “meat.” It originates in prohibiting the boiling of a kid in the milk of its own mother. Fish aren’t mammals so they don’t have mothers’ milk. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2013, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-meat-get-over-it/664144/106 "2013-07-26T17:20:07Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > The prohibition has nothing to do with the definition of “meat.” It originates in prohibiting the boiling of a kid in the milk of its own mother. Fish aren’t mammals so they don’t have mothers’ milk. Well, I understand the origin of the prohibition, but there are, apparently, some forms of Judaism that extend it to fish and dairy (although that appears to be for health reasons.) Plus there are those that don’t eat “meat” and “fish” together, apparently, treating them as separate categories. [Like here](http://www.askmoses.com/en/article/146,2195210/Is-it-permitted-to-eat-fish-with-milk.html), for instance. Still, my point is that “meat” and “fish” are used to signify two, non-overlapping categories of dead animal flesh. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2013, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-meat-get-over-it/664144/107 "2013-07-26T17:55:35Z")
Plus isn’t fowl considered “meat” for the purposes of the “don’t mix meat and milk” prohibition? Fowl don’t produce milk, either. ---
**Author:** ![Tacit\_Knowledge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f17d59/32.png) [@Tacit\_Knowledge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tacit_Knowledge)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2013, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-meat-get-over-it/664144/108 "2013-07-26T20:45:18Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > The prohibition has nothing to do with the definition of “meat.” It originates in prohibiting the boiling of a kid in the milk of its own mother. Fish aren’t mammals so they don’t have mothers’ milk. This comment regards the information only, not the poster: Wow, that takes it from misleading to just plain stupid. Who the hell is boiling any meats in any milk? And why? And what if I were to boil beef in goat’s milk? The goat who sources the milk isn’t the cow’s mother. The dietary “laws” that religions come up with are beyond stupid. And they expect to be taken seriously on the more important issues? Wow. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2013, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-meat-get-over-it/664144/109 "2013-07-26T20:53:23Z")
What if it’s synecdoche or metonymy? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2013, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-meat-get-over-it/664144/110 "2013-07-26T21:27:02Z")
> [@Tacit\_Knowledge](#): > > Who the hell is boiling any meats in any milk? I braise pork in milk from time to time. It is _delicious_. [Here’s a recipe](http://screwtop.wordpress.com/2010/04/26/milk-braised-pork-shoulder/). Try it one day. So, wait, this thread really is about religion and not language, eh? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2013, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-meat-get-over-it/664144/111 "2013-07-26T21:37:03Z")
> [@Tacit\_Knowledge](#): > > This comment regards the information only, not the poster: > > Wow, that takes it from misleading to just plain stupid. Who the hell is boiling any meats in any milk? And why? And what if I were to boil beef in goat’s milk? The goat who sources the milk isn’t the cow’s mother. > > The dietary “laws” that religions come up with are beyond stupid. And they expect to be taken seriously on the more important issues? Wow. We don’t care one way or another whether or not you take us seriously. You are utterly irrelevant to us. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-meat-get-over-it/664144/112 "2013-07-27T01:02:58Z")
Declarations of irrelevance are not the best way to oppose antisemitism. Arousing hostility is counter-productive. The majority has the power to enact legislation, and it isn’t always respectful. Consciousness raising proceeds from engagement, not from withdrawal. That leads to ghettos and worse. There was a letter-writing campaign, not too long ago, in which it was requested that a Jewish prison inmate (in the U.S.) be allowed Kosher meals. The prison warden was not sympathetic. Numerous non-Jewish liberals participated in the campaign. We are not “irrelevant.” ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f07891/32.png) [@Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Plastic_Ninja)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-meat-get-over-it/664144/113 "2013-07-27T07:12:21Z")
> [@Tacit\_Knowledge](#): > > . Who the hell is boiling any meats in any milk? And why? . You never had stroganoff? Or, given that fish count, chowder? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-meat-get-over-it/664144/114 "2013-07-27T07:57:52Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Declarations of irrelevance are not the best way to oppose antisemitism. Arousing hostility is counter-productive. The majority has the power to enact legislation, and it isn’t always respectful. Consciousness raising proceeds from engagement, not from withdrawal. That leads to ghettos and worse. > > There was a letter-writing campaign, not too long ago, in which it was requested that a Jewish prison inmate (in the U.S.) be allowed Kosher meals. The prison warden was not sympathetic. Numerous non-Jewish liberals participated in the campaign. > > We are not “irrelevant.” You have to understand my perspective. Being Israeli means I can safely ignore antisemites who aren’t actively shooting at me. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-meat-get-over-it/664144/115 "2013-07-27T19:46:26Z")
Fair enough. And this is one of the greatest values of the Jewish homeland. (You won’t find many people who are more pro-Israel than I am!) ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-meat-get-over-it/664144/116 "2013-07-27T20:16:28Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > We don’t care one way or another whether or not you take us seriously. You are utterly irrelevant to us. Yeah, because that always works. :rolleyes: Declaring others to be irrelevant (ie, being stupidly dismissive of others) tends to make them see you as at best, irrelevant to them, or worse, as an enemy. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-meat-get-over-it/664144/117 "2013-07-27T20:58:43Z")
But why should I care what he thinks about my religious customs? They’re \*my \*religious customs, not his. I’m not asking him to convert, and I’m not trying to convince him that they’re correct. They’re just this thing I do. The only thing I can do in the face of an attack like his is shrug, and say “whatever”. Which is what I did. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-meat-get-over-it/664144/118 "2013-07-27T22:05:28Z")
I guess I’m too concerned about the power of evil to do real harm. When someone says my beliefs are “beyond stupid” and declares that they make my opinions on other issues no longer worth taking seriously…I take that seriously. It’s worse than irrelevant: it’s open enmity. Evil needs to be opposed. At our level, of course, we can’t do a lot more than denounce it. “What a fucking evil thing to say.” ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2013, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-meat-get-over-it/664144/119 "2013-07-27T22:11:11Z")
And also > [@Chimera](#): > > Declaring others to be irrelevant (ie, being stupidly dismissive of others) tends to make them see you as at best, irrelevant to them, or worse, as an enemy. Why should I care if they see me as an enemy? After all, they’re irrelevant. There are seven billion people in the world. I don’t need all of them to like me. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2013, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-meat-get-over-it/664144/120 "2013-07-28T00:34:24Z")
I’m going to bring this up next time someone claims they don’t eat meat/flesh. “Well then, I guess you don’t eat any fruit either!” “how do you figure?” “Because, inside the peel is the flesh or the meat of the fruit! Ha ha!!!” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-meat-get-over-it/664144.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-meat-get-over-it/664144.md?page=7)