# It's "Merry Christmas," not "Happy Holidays."
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-merry-christmas-not-happy-holidays/604812
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [December 2, 2011, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-merry-christmas-not-happy-holidays/604812 "2011-12-02T07:47:54Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 16
### Author:  [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)
#### Post date: [December 5, 2011, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-merry-christmas-not-happy-holidays/604812/301 "2011-12-05T14:57:22Z")
You _really_ get offended?
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### Author:  [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)
#### Post date: [December 5, 2011, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-merry-christmas-not-happy-holidays/604812/302 "2011-12-05T14:58:05Z")
> [@Telemark](#):
>
> While in general I agree with you, this simply isn’t true. If you know I’m Jewish and you wish me a Merry Christmas, it’s a problem.
Why? I’m a Hindu and and atheist and I wouldn’t consider it a problem for me.
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### Author:  [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)
#### Post date: [December 5, 2011, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-merry-christmas-not-happy-holidays/604812/303 "2011-12-05T15:03:57Z")
> [@Telemark](#):
>
> While in general I agree with you, this simply isn’t true. If you know I’m Jewish and you wish me a Merry Christmas, it’s a problem. If you don’t know I’ll certainly take it in the spirit offered, but I will most likely gently correct you.
Yeah, but will you gently correct, or freak the fuck out on a cashier and refuse to do business because OMG THEY HATE AMERICA AND CHRISTIANS AND THEY ARE PART OF THE SOCIALIST AGENDA!!! Because that’s what a certain asshole stripe of religious people do.
ETA: if someone _knows_ you’re Jewish, and says Merry Christmas (except perhaps in a joking way, for a well established friend or something), I would be offended too. I would consider that an attempt to ridicule or minimize me. This is more about cashiers at the mall.
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### Author:  [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)
#### Post date: [December 5, 2011, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-merry-christmas-not-happy-holidays/604812/304 "2011-12-05T15:10:12Z")
> [@Jenaroph](#):
>
> Exactly. It’s a bunch of whiny panty-bunchers trying to rewrite history in order to be offended.
Yes. For some reason, it is very easy to manipulate people into making them feel discriminated against or threatened or offended. O’Reilly and Limbaugh has made a fortune from puppets like **mac\_bolan00**.
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### Author:  [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)
#### Post date: [December 5, 2011, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-merry-christmas-not-happy-holidays/604812/305 "2011-12-05T15:33:37Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#):
>
> Yeah, but will you gently correct, or freak the fuck out on a cashier and refuse to do business because OMG THEY HATE AMERICA AND CHRISTIANS AND THEY ARE PART OF THE SOCIALIST AGENDA!!! Because that’s what a certain asshole stripe of religious people do.
>
> ETA: if someone _knows_ you’re Jewish, and says Merry Christmas (except perhaps in a joking way, for a well established friend or something), I would be offended too.\*\* I would consider that an attempt to ridicule or minimize me. \*\*This is more about cashiers at the mall.
Unless they said it in a really snide way, that would be a strong conclusion to come to. I’ve had Chinese coworkers wish me Happy New Year in mid-Feb. Did they know I didn’t celebrate Chinese New Year? Yes. Were they minimizing or ridiculing me? Obviously not. They were just telling me to have a good year. No offense meant, none taken. People can wish me Happy Hanukkah, Happy Kwanzaa, Blessed Ramadan. They can even wish that the elder god Cthulhu devour me quickly in my sleep. Whatever. There are many, many things to get upset about. Polite pleasantries is not one of them, whatever form they take.
I think our culture is going to drown in its own umbrage.
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### Author:  [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)
#### Post date: [December 5, 2011, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-merry-christmas-not-happy-holidays/604812/306 "2011-12-05T15:42:01Z")
> [@Acsenray](#):
>
> Why? I’m a Hindu and and atheist and I wouldn’t consider it a problem for me.
Because I’m Jewish (and atheist) and grew up in a predominantly Christian culture where I get tired of being marginalized. If you don’t know me well enough to know my religious beliefs, don’t make religious proclamations towards me. If someone says “Happy Holidays” to me I fully embrace it.
And no, I’d never be rude or angry about it to anyone. It’s not worth getting worked up over it. If it was someone I knew, who also knew I didn’t appreciate it, and repeatedly did so, then I would conclude that person is an idiot, not that they are a bigot. And then I’d move on with my life.
BTW, I’m listening to my collection of holiday music (Christmas and Hanukkah) which I’ve always loved. It’s not a clear cut issue, to be sure.
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### Author:  [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)
#### Post date: [December 5, 2011, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-merry-christmas-not-happy-holidays/604812/307 "2011-12-05T15:45:19Z")
I think what’s getting missed here is that there’s really nobody getting offended by being told “Merry Christmas”. This is a one-sided “War”, and that side is the defense against something that’s not really happening. It’s the people who have a pathological need for Christmas to be the only acknowledged holiday near the end of the year that are fomenting all of this. Stores are using Happy Holidays the way they have been for decades because a) they don’t want to offend or make unwelcome people who don’t celebrate Christmas and b) they want to be able to extend the holiday shopping season for as long as possible. There are no overt anti-Christian biases in this. I don’t mind being told “Merry Christmas”, but Limbaugh and O’Reilly can’t stand being told anything else, because to them, Christmas is the only holiday that should be acknowledged by anyone in the Christian States of America.
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### Author:  [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)
#### Post date: [December 5, 2011, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-merry-christmas-not-happy-holidays/604812/308 "2011-12-05T16:06:05Z")
> [@Telemark](#):
>
> Because I’m Jewish (and atheist) and grew up in a predominantly Christian culture where I get tired of being marginalized.
Well, I’m Hindu and an atheist and grew up in a predominantly Christian culture where I get tired of being marginalized.
But I’ve never considered “Merry Christmas” to have anything to do with Christianity. Like Miss Elizabeth said, it’s really a secular celebration in this country.
I guess I’m Bill O’Reilly’s nightmare. I claim Christmas as mine, and I’ve dispensed with the Christ part of it entirely.
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### Author:  [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)
#### Post date: [December 5, 2011, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-merry-christmas-not-happy-holidays/604812/309 "2011-12-05T16:18:09Z")
> [@Acsenray](#):
>
> But I’ve never considered “Merry Christmas” to have anything to do with Christianity. Like Miss Elizabeth said, it’s really a secular celebration in this country.
And I’ve always disagreed with that view. This isn’t intended to be a snarky response, I think it’s a basic disagreement that is unlikely to change.
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### Author:  [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)
#### Post date: [December 5, 2011, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-merry-christmas-not-happy-holidays/604812/310 "2011-12-05T16:21:40Z")
> [@Telemark](#):
>
> And I’ve always disagreed with that view. This isn’t intended to be a snarky response, I think it’s a basic disagreement that is unlikely to change.
I’m with you. I don’t get offended by some one who doesn’t know me, or an off the cuff “Merry Christmas”. But that’s not because the phrase is secular. It’s because I assume the person means well.
However, if someone who knew me or for whatever reason learned I didn’t celebrate Christmas kept saying it because it’s secular and shouldn’t matter, they’d be in the wrong. It may not be religious, per se, but that doesn’t mean it’s wholly secular either.
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### Author:  [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)
#### Post date: [December 5, 2011, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-merry-christmas-not-happy-holidays/604812/311 "2011-12-05T16:44:00Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#):
>
> My reading of the thread was that “Happy Holidays” came about because of all those people from Different Religions™ allegedly being offended by the lack of recognition afforded to their holidays- which inconveniently occur at the same time of year- by people saying “Merry Christmas.”
>
> I was further observing that the adherents of those religions in these parts are either small enough in number and/or laid-back enough in attitude to not be worked up by it.
>
> And thus I further observed it largely seems to be a US thing for people to even feel the need to say “Happy Holidays” lest they offend someone from a Different Religion™.
Americans have been saying “Season’s Greetings” & “Happy Holidays” for many years now–to extend generic good wishes for several pending holidays to people they don’t see every day & to be polite to people who might not be Christian. Earlier in the thread, there’s a link to Bing Crosby singing “Happy Holidays” in a 1942 movie; that’s not the earliest use of either phrase.
Nobody much cared. Until the Religious Right decided that there is A War on Christmas. Here’s [an explanation](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/18/american-family-associati_n_362714.html):
> [@](#):
>
> Why the “war?” Well, as near as I can tell, being the top-dog, religion-wise, just isn’t good enough for some people. There apparently exist adherents who are so feckless and inconstant in their faith, that nothing short of constant validation will do. So when one of these lesser lights walks into Walgreens and hears “Happy Holidays” instead of “Merry Christmas And Praise Be To You Who Were Smart Enough To Practice The Best Religion Ever!” something inside these adherents’ psyches snaps, breaks, and they come to develop an insane persecution complex.
There have been a few instances of the ACLU preventing Nativity Scenes being put up with government funds, but most cities spend plenty on lights & Christmas trees & other trappings of The Season. It’s good business. Of course, churches, businesses & private citizens may decorate as they wish.
More things the [American Family Association](http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/american-family-association), one of the inventors of this phony war, is agin’:
> [@](#):
>
> “Indecent” influences in American culture include: television, the separation of church and state, pornography, “the homosexual agenda,” premarital sex, legal abortion, the National Endowment for the Arts, gambling, unfiltered internet access in libraries, and the removal of school-sponsored religious worship from public schools.
“Observing” is not enough; try to do a little research before making your pronouncements. Oh, and “Different Religions™” is just too cute. I thought you were Australian & thought your country was becoming reasonably diverse. Guess there are stagnant backwaters everywhere…
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### Author:  [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)
#### Post date: [December 5, 2011, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-merry-christmas-not-happy-holidays/604812/312 "2011-12-05T16:51:10Z")
Atheist and generally ignore Christmas. And anybody who knows me, knows that.
Merry Christmas doesn’t bother me any more than a Happy Diwali (or whatever) would as even as it expresses a value for the day it doesn’t impose any sense of religious obligation.
I can have a merry Christmas without having a single moment of Christian reflection and in their pleasure in their religion they’re just wishing me well. I’m cool with that.
If they, instead, said “Have a great day of reflection on the glory of Jesus, our lord savior” then I’d feel more impinged upon.
But mostly I wish people would stop saying both Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays because I feel like a douche when 3 minutes later I remember “oh yeah, I was supposed to echo that back.”
Though, whenever someone I know engages in the stupidity of getting upset about this it does make me want to seek them out on Christmas day just so I can say “Happy Holiday.”
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### Author:  [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)
#### Post date: [December 5, 2011, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-merry-christmas-not-happy-holidays/604812/313 "2011-12-05T16:55:55Z")
Huh, I was shocked by [this Google Ngram](http://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=Happy+Holidays%2CMerry+Christmas&year_start=1800&year_end=2000&corpus=0&smoothing=3) showing how Happy Holidays has completely overtaken Merry Christmas. I may have to rethink my view.
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### Author:  [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)
#### Post date: [December 5, 2011, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-merry-christmas-not-happy-holidays/604812/314 "2011-12-05T17:02:05Z")
> [@Telemark](#):
>
> While in general I agree with you, this simply isn’t true. If you know I’m Jewish and you wish me a Merry Christmas, it’s a problem. If you don’t know I’ll certainly take it in the spirit offered, but I will most likely gently correct you.
> [@CitizenPained](#):
>
> You _really_ get offended?
I dunno about you guys, but my wife and I have an ongoing etiquette debate about what direction one is supposed to offer those kinds of greetings.
That is, suppose a Christian is greeting a Jew: should the Christian say "Merry Christmas! (I’m offering you the greeting of the holiday I celebrate!) or "Happy Hanukkah! (I’m offering you the greeting of the holiday you celebrate!)?
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### Author:  [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)
#### Post date: [December 5, 2011, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-merry-christmas-not-happy-holidays/604812/315 "2011-12-05T17:07:25Z")
Do you wish someone else Happy Birthday on your birthday or their’s?
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### Author:  [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)
#### Post date: [December 5, 2011, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-merry-christmas-not-happy-holidays/604812/316 "2011-12-05T17:08:17Z")
First of all, **mac\_bolan00** you are a filthy, mean little runt who demonstrates everything unChristian about the religion you claim to subscribe to. Were you tossed into the lion’s den you’d have been shat by now.
> [@Acsenray](#):
>
> But I’ve never considered “Merry Christmas” to have anything to do with Christianity. Like Miss Elizabeth said, it’s really a secular celebration in this country.
Me too.
I grew up with no religious affliliation smack in the middle of the Bible Belt, and I’ve always felt the same. Canned Christmas music is white noise, and store aisles packed with all things Santa, North Pole, trees, treats, lights, wrapping paper, ornaments, and all manner of pagan-derived decor have dust-all to do with the birth of Christ, and I’ve known the history of Christmas since childhood, learned alongside the Santa myth, just like every other public school kid. Pope Julius commandeered the solstice celebrations in order to replace the pagan traditions with Christian themes, but retail evidence reflects Julius was only partly successful.
So I see plenty of “Reason for the Season” and such on the thousands of patronizing church signs in the region and Facebook is positively littered with orders to respond to Happy Holidays with a terse Merry Christmas, but I really don’t feel the Christian aspects to the holiday, especially with all the hostile anti-HappyHoliday rhetoric. It seems a very un-Christlike attitude, to push back against attempts at inclusion and tolerance. It’s a rather ugly attitude in the middle of a holiday season usually full of shared optimism and good will.
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### Author:  [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)
#### Post date: [December 5, 2011, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-merry-christmas-not-happy-holidays/604812/317 "2011-12-05T17:10:47Z")
> [@obfusciatrist](#):
>
> Huh, I was shocked by [this Google Ngram](http://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=Happy+Holidays%2CMerry+Christmas&year_start=1800&year_end=2000&corpus=0&smoothing=3) showing how Happy Holidays has completely overtaken Merry Christmas. I may have to rethink my view.
I ran a more complete one for you [here](http://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=Happy+Holidays%2CMerry+Christmas%2CSeasons+Greetings%2C+Go+to+Hell&year_start=1800&year_end=2000&corpus=0&smoothing=3).
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### Author:  [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)
#### Post date: [December 5, 2011, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-merry-christmas-not-happy-holidays/604812/318 "2011-12-05T17:12:09Z")
> [@Troppus](#):
>
> So I see plenty of “Reason for the Season” and such on the thousands of patronizing church signs in the region
“Axial tilt is the reason for the season.”
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### Author:  [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)
#### Post date: [December 5, 2011, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-merry-christmas-not-happy-holidays/604812/319 "2011-12-05T17:25:26Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#):
>
> I ran a more complete one for you [here](http://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=Happy+Holidays%2CMerry+Christmas%2CSeasons+Greetings%2C+Go+to+Hell&year_start=1800&year_end=2000&corpus=0&smoothing=3).
Looks like “Go to Hell” peaked during the depression. I guess poverty really does make you grumpy.
(though that is an ngram where capitalization changes really mess with the results.)
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### Author:  [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)
#### Post date: [December 5, 2011, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-merry-christmas-not-happy-holidays/604812/320 "2011-12-05T18:14:19Z")
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#):
>
> I like “Happy Holidays.” I don’t even mind “Merry Christmas.” But today at Safeway, every single checkstand had a sign that said in large black letters:
>
> **Happy Holliday’s!**
>
> If we want to get incensed about something, I suggest we start with this abomination.
Actually, I think that’s a brand of gin.
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