# It's "needs washed"!!!! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 25, 2009, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-needs-washed/507575 "2009-08-25T00:16:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-needs-washed/507575/61 "2009-08-25T18:13:30Z")
> [@ruadh](#): > > I’m originally from DC but live in Ireland. “Needs Xed” is very common here. > [@ScareyFaerie](#): > > My Scottish boyfriend will say “needs Xed”, whereas I will say “needs to be Xed”. That’s precisely where it comes from. Pittsburgh is 19% Irish and 20% German, and a good portion of those people are, say, Scotch-Irish. > [@Borborygmi](#): > > Man, the OP is picking fights over something really minor. Sounds like he needs laid. Well, I’ll never argue against that 😉 > [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > So it’s proper for the dialect, but not the country, is what your saying? If so wouldn’t correcting someone speaking the proper Pittsburgh dialect be about as rude as correcting an English man in the US because buggering doesn’t involve bugs at all That’s pretty much what I’m getting at. ---
**Author:** ![tr0psn4j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@tr0psn4j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tr0psn4j)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-needs-washed/507575/62 "2009-08-25T18:16:41Z")
> [@Scarlett67](#): > > No, I think it’s “my hair needs did.” > > Seriously, has the OP never heard of Standard English? You can talk your dialect all you want, but it’s not Standard English. Well, I’ve actually heard people say “get my hair did.” Might have been in a movie or too as well. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-needs-washed/507575/63 "2009-08-25T18:19:26Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > So it’s proper for the dialect, but not the country, is what your saying? If so wouldn’t correcting someone speaking the proper Pittsburgh dialect be about as rude as correcting an English man in the US because buggering doesn’t involve bugs at all\*? > > Edit: I guess the problem I have with this is people are harassing the OP because of his dialect and accent. > > \*one hopes anyway If **Chessic Sense** were writing an article (for a non-regional publication) that I was expected to edit, I’d critique his usage on the basis that the readership would consider it improper. If I were standing in Three Rivers Stadium or the Cathedral of Learning and he said it, I wouldn’t think of correcting him. (“Y’all can say ‘yinz’ for all of me!” :D) What I found fault with is not his wishing to use a regionalism, but the apparent tone of his OP that he wishes to impose his regionalism as a standard for everybody. Which may be a misinterpretation, but that’s what I got from his content and tone. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-needs-washed/507575/64 "2009-08-25T18:28:07Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > What I found fault with is not his wishing to use a regionalism, but the apparent tone of his OP that he wishes to impose his regionalism as a standard for everybody. Which may be a misinterpretation, but that’s what I got from his content and tone. Yea it kinda reads like that to me too. However, understandably, constant grief in the name of Standard American English might make someone a tad bit hostile to the concept in general, and therefor I cut him some slack in my interpretation. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-needs-washed/507575/65 "2009-08-25T18:34:21Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I saw [this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11467886&postcount=9) in another thread, and my first thought was, “Maybe Pittsburgh needs blowed up.” Blown up. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-needs-washed/507575/66 "2009-08-25T18:39:04Z")
Don’t tell me how to speak a recognized dialect! ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-needs-washed/507575/67 "2009-08-25T18:54:55Z")
After reviewing the “Pittsburgh English” article on Wikipedia to understand what the hell everyone is talking about, I can only conclude that this “dialect” is a mutant form of English that only found popularity because no one had the heart to tell the Mayor of Pittsburgh in 1844 that his retarded son wasn’t actually saying shit the right way. “Leave him go outside” “Let the book on the table.” ??? you brain dead morons in west Pennsylvania have got to be fucking kidding me. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-needs-washed/507575/68 "2009-08-25T19:03:25Z")
I say “needs Xed” or “wants Xed.” I doubt it’s possible for me to be bothered if anyone doesn’t like it, but ya never know. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-needs-washed/507575/69 "2009-08-25T19:08:00Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > “Leave him go outside” > “Let the book on the table.” Pretty sure they made that one up. I’ve never heard that, nor have I heard of hearing it. [peruses Wiki further] For the love of Og, _tell me_ you don’t find anything wrong with “The cat wants out”! ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-needs-washed/507575/70 "2009-08-25T19:15:41Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Pretty sure they made that one up. I’ve never heard that, nor have I heard of hearing it. > > [peruses Wiki further] > > For the love of Og, _tell me_ you don’t find anything wrong with “The cat wants out”! wants to be let out of the house to do something? or wants out of the household unit? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-needs-washed/507575/71 "2009-08-25T19:38:09Z")
I’ve lived in cities and more rural areas, in the Northeast, the Midwest, the South, and on the West Coast, and I never heard no nobody talk like that. If i did, I’d assume they never got past first grade. It sounds nothing but wrong and ignorant to my ear. ---
**Author:** ![Belrix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed655f/32.png) [@Belrix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belrix)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-needs-washed/507575/72 "2009-08-25T19:38:48Z")
Interesting Wikipedia article. [Link](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittsburgh_English). A lot of those things are familiar to me. Of course, I also picked up a few southernisms while living in Dixie. I “fix to” do things now and I often “might could”. e.g. “I’m fixing to go to the store, do you need anything?” “I might could get to the store if I don’t run out of time.” ---
**Author:** ![born\_too\_late](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ba9def/32.png) [@born\_too\_late](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/born_too_late)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-needs-washed/507575/73 "2009-08-25T19:52:23Z")
Tel y’all whut. I’s gonna dialect mine own invention, and when correctin’ me youse all be, I told y’all that it be correct in my dialect, andin i’sa dasn’t given any crap whither nobody want to holdin’ conversationalite type thing con myself anymore. Smell ya l8r! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-needs-washed/507575/74 "2009-08-25T20:38:14Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > but it’s not considered to be \*\*proper \*\*standard American English usage, **merely dialectal**. I have bolded the parts of this sentence that are wrong, from an objective linguistic standpoint. One can speak of \*\*mainstream \*\*U.S. English, and perhaps even \*\*standard \*\*U.S. English. But what determines “good” or “proper” English versus “bad” English \*\*is not \*\*whether or not the speech is **grammatical** : it is **who is doing the speaking**. So, to inherently classify any rule-governed linguistic system as “right” while the others are “wrong” is to engage in racism, classism, etc. Your second mistake is in referring to only non-mainstream U.S. English as a dialect. \*\*All \*\*forms of English (or indeed of any language), **including the mainstream kind** , are dialects, as long as they are governed by internally consistent rules. FWIW, before I took my first sociolinguistics course in college, I would have agreed that non-mainstream dialects are “wrong.” That’s the funny thing about language–almost nobody would think that having a body qualifies you to be a doctor, but most people think speaking a language gives you an inherent understanding of how language works. Two books I strongly recommend from those courses to anyone who is having problems seeing “needs ed” as grammatical: [American English: Dialects and Variation](http://www.amazon.com/American-English-Dialects-Variation-Language/dp/1405112662/) (Wolfram and Schilling-Estes) [English with an Accent: Language, Ideology, and Discrimination in the United States](http://www.amazon.com/English-Accent-Language-Ideology-Discrimination/dp/0415114772/) (Lippi-Green) ---
**Author:** ![Hockey\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a183cd/32.png) [@Hockey\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hockey_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-needs-washed/507575/75 "2009-08-25T20:46:31Z")
To be or not to be? That is the question. ---
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanub/32/132_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUB)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-needs-washed/507575/76 "2009-08-25T20:48:50Z")
If that many people were correcting me I’d wonder if they weren’t also considering me not very intelligent. It really doesn’t matter if your regional dialect is “legitimate” if people think it makes you sound stupid or unsophisticated or whatever. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-needs-washed/507575/77 "2009-08-25T21:03:03Z")
> [@Sigmagirl](#): > > I’ve got a friend in Pennsylvania. Hee. My parents grew up near Reading and left the state as adults, citing mixed feelings about their families. When this slogan came out, Pop replied with, “With friends like Pennsylvania, who needs enemies?” ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-needs-washed/507575/78 "2009-08-25T21:11:19Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > I have bolded the parts of this sentence that are wrong, from an objective linguistic standpoint. > > One can speak of \*\*mainstream \*\*U.S. English, and perhaps even \*\*standard \*\*U.S. English. But what determines “good” or “proper” English versus “bad” English \*\*is not \*\*whether or not the speech is **grammatical** : it is **who is doing the speaking**. So, to inherently classify any rule-governed linguistic system as “right” while the others are “wrong” is to engage in racism, classism, etc. > > Your second mistake is in referring to only non-mainstream U.S. English as a dialect. \*\*All \*\*forms of English (or indeed of any language), **including the mainstream kind** , are dialects, as long as they are governed by internally consistent rules. > > FWIW, before I took my first sociolinguistics course in college, I would have agreed that non-mainstream dialects are “wrong.” That’s the funny thing about language–almost nobody would think that having a body qualifies you to be a doctor, but most people think speaking a language gives you an inherent understanding of how language works. Two books I strongly recommend from those courses to anyone who is having problems seeing “needs ed” as grammatical: > [American English: Dialects and Variation](http://www.amazon.com/American-English-Dialects-Variation-Language/dp/1405112662/) (Wolfram and Schilling-Estes) > [English with an Accent: Language, Ideology, and Discrimination in the United States](http://www.amazon.com/English-Accent-Language-Ideology-Discrimination/dp/0415114772/) (Lippi-Green) Of course. I was being lax, imprecise, in my phrasing. Yes, I meant “standard” (or perhaps “proper” in the sense of “acceptable in formal English”) in using “proper” – and while Standard American is a dialect, it is by far the most widespread dialect, and the de facto literary standard for American English. While your points are valid, your conclusion needs fixed. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-needs-washed/507575/79 "2009-08-25T21:32:50Z")
> [@WOOKINPANUB](#): > > It really doesn’t matter if your regional dialect is “legitimate” if people think it makes you sound stupid or unsophisticated or whatever. But that’s why it’s so dangerous and insidious. Even though people who have these attitudes are demonstrably wrong from the standpoint of the actual study of linguistics, we “have to” accommodate their prejudices. It becomes a vicious cycle–employers want people who speak a mainstream dialect because that’s what they were taught in school, and schools teach mainstream dialects because that’s what employers want. Language discrimination is one of the few remaining legal forms of racial discrimination in this country, for example. I dare any otherwise highly qualified individual to attempt to obtain a high-paying job while speaking AAVE instead of mainstream U.S. English. AAVE is just as grammatical, rule-governed, and internally consistent as MUSE. The \*\*only \*\*difference is the demographics of who speaks what. > [@Polycarp](#): > > While your points are valid, your conclusion needs fixed. Then next time, don’t give me a bunch of evidence that you hold a common but mistaken layperson’s opinion, and I won’t have the opportunity to draw the wrong conclusion. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Vihaga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Vihaga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vihaga)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-needs-washed/507575/80 "2009-08-25T21:37:34Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > After reviewing the “Pittsburgh English” article on Wikipedia to understand what the hell everyone is talking about, I can only conclude that this “dialect” is a mutant form of English that only found popularity because no one had the heart to tell the Mayor of Pittsburgh in 1844 that his retarded son wasn’t actually saying shit the right way. > > “Leave him go outside” > “Let the book on the table.” > ??? > > you brain dead morons in west Pennsylvania have got to be fucking kidding me. Oh, I’ve heard it. I grew up in South Central PA, and my grandparents live near Erie, but, fortunately for me, none of them suffer from the Pittsburgh-area dialect, as it is just as appalling as you think. I didn’t hear it in all its glory until I went to college with a guy from Johnstown. Ask the OP about the proper use of “youns.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-needs-washed/507575.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-needs-washed/507575.md?page=5)