# It's "needs washed"!!!! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 25, 2009, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-needs-washed/507575 "2009-08-25T00:16:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-needs-washed/507575/81 "2009-08-25T22:04:04Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > But that’s why it’s so dangerous and insidious. Even though people who have these attitudes are demonstrably wrong from the standpoint of the actual study of linguistics, we “have to” accommodate their prejudices. It becomes a vicious cycle–employers want people who speak a mainstream dialect because that’s what they were taught in school, and schools teach mainstream dialects because that’s what employers want. I like my “needs washed” and have honestly never caught any sort of flak for it. Sure, there are a few people on this board who would sneer over it. Meh. Just wait 'till I crack open my double modals on 'em! ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-needs-washed/507575/82 "2009-08-25T22:09:07Z")
I also say “needs washed” and did not realize that it was nonstandard English until a friend of mine that had recently moved to southeastern Ohio from Detroit heard me saying it, and pointed and laughed at me for a while. Yes, I have great friends. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-needs-washed/507575/83 "2009-08-25T22:21:44Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > I also say “needs washed” and did not realize that it was nonstandard English until a friend of mine that had recently moved to southeastern Ohio from Detroit heard me saying it, and pointed and laughed at me for a while. Yes, I have great friends. 😉 Did you tell them they were from DEEtroit? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-needs-washed/507575/84 "2009-08-25T22:29:31Z")
> [@Hockey\_Monkey](#): > > To be or not to be? That is the question. “That wants questioning”. Try to keep up. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-needs-washed/507575/85 "2009-08-25T22:35:43Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > “That wants questioning”. Try to keep up. That wants questioned. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-needs-washed/507575/86 "2009-08-25T22:46:21Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > But that’s why it’s so dangerous and insidious. Even though people who have these attitudes are demonstrably wrong from the standpoint of the actual study of linguistics, we “have to” accommodate their prejudices. It becomes a vicious cycle–employers want people who speak a mainstream dialect because that’s what they were taught in school, and schools teach mainstream dialects because that’s what employers want. > > Language discrimination is one of the few remaining legal forms of racial discrimination in this country, for example. I dare any otherwise highly qualified individual to attempt to obtain a high-paying job while speaking AAVE instead of mainstream U.S. English. AAVE is just as grammatical, rule-governed, and internally consistent as MUSE. The \*\*only \*\*difference is the demographics of who speaks what. The difference between this and other forms of discrimination (based on gender, race, age, etc.) is that you can actually change your language use. Toddlers use speech that is grammatical, rule-governed and internally consistent, too, but you can’t honestly expect a company to turn a blind eye (deaf ear?) to someone who tells them in an interview “I hurted my foots” or “I seed this movie last night…”. I mean, you don’t have to wear a suit and tie to work, either, but don’t be shocked when you’re not hired by a major corporation because you waltz into the interview in sweat pants and a t-shirt. ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-needs-washed/507575/87 "2009-08-26T01:42:49Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > But that’s why it’s so dangerous and insidious. Even though people who have these attitudes are demonstrably wrong from the standpoint of the actual study of linguistics, we “have to” accommodate their prejudices. It becomes a vicious cycle–employers want people who speak a mainstream dialect because that’s what they were taught in school, and schools teach mainstream dialects because that’s what employers want. > > Language discrimination is one of the few remaining legal forms of racial discrimination in this country, for example. I dare any otherwise highly qualified individual to attempt to obtain a high-paying job while speaking AAVE instead of mainstream U.S. English. AAVE is just as grammatical, rule-governed, and internally consistent as MUSE. The \*\*only \*\*difference is the demographics of who speaks what. You’re about a hop and a step away from claiming that it’s also improper to discriminate against people who can’t effectively communicate, period. Of course, by “discriminate” you mean “choose not to interact with because your counterpart can’t be fucking understood” If the listener finds it unwieldy and unintelligible, that’s all I care to know about the propriety of a language in a given situation. Sorry, if your dialect sounds like shit and is hard for people to understand, you’re the one who either a) has to change or b) interact with those who can better understand you. And, FYI, it’s not racial discrimination in the slightest. adding the adjective “racial” does not a persuasive argument make. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-needs-washed/507575/88 "2009-08-26T01:48:53Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > Sorry, if your dialect sounds like shit and is hard for people to understand, you’re the one who either a) has to change or b) interact with those who can better understand you. So, seriously, if I say my car needs washed I sound like shit and can’t be understood? That’s a first for me. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-needs-washed/507575/89 "2009-08-26T01:52:24Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > You mean “need cultivated”. You mean “need culled”. ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-needs-washed/507575/90 "2009-08-26T01:53:37Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > So, seriously, if I say my car needs washed I sound like shit and can’t be understood? > > That’s a first for me. No, not at all. I’m taking issue with his far more broad claim of the liberal, postmodern variety that I can’t stand. The ones that fall generally under the blanket term of “relativism” Obviously my post about The Mayor of Pittsburgh was TiC, but this one, sadly, is not. But it’s not really directed at Pitsburghese. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-needs-washed/507575/91 "2009-08-26T02:31:02Z")
Great tasted, less filled! ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-needs-washed/507575/92 "2009-08-26T02:33:16Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > No, not at all. > > I’m taking issue with his far more broad claim of the liberal, postmodern variety that I can’t stand. The ones that fall generally under the blanket term of “relativism” > > Obviously my post about The Mayor of Pittsburgh was TiC, but this one, sadly, is not. But it’s not really directed at Pitsburghese. Well, who says, then? Why is your dialect right and mine is wrong? Is it a popularity thing? If so, weep then; weep for the poor apostrophe. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-needs-washed/507575/93 "2009-08-26T03:09:21Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > The difference between this and other forms of discrimination (based on gender, race, age, etc.) is that you can actually change your language use. Toddlers use speech that is grammatical, rule-governed and internally consistent, too, but you can’t honestly expect a company to turn a blind eye (deaf ear?) to someone who tells them in an interview “I hurted my foots” or “I seed this movie last night…”. I mean, you don’t have to wear a suit and tie to work, either, but don’t be shocked when you’re not hired by a major corporation because you waltz into the interview in sweat pants and a t-shirt. “Change your language use”? Did you mean “usage”? Why do some people presume that their usage of language is superior to someone else’s? Especially when the differences are dialectical in nature. If an employer is so ignorant that he doesn’t understand a Southerner saying he’s fixing to do something, then the employer is an idiot. He might not be hired, but why is that a a reflection on him rather than on the employer? Yankees get away with dialectical travesties all the time: “you guys”, “hot dish”, “moiduh” (murder). ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-needs-washed/507575/94 "2009-08-26T03:15:54Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > So, seriously, if I say my car needs washed I sound like shit and can’t be understood? Just because it is popular turn of phrase in a few parts of the world doesn’t mean that it cannot be incredibly grating on my ears. So yes, that usage sounds like shit to me. Just thinking about the phrase causes me the same vexation as does trying to read leet speak. But to your second question, no, you can be understood. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-needs-washed/507575/95 "2009-08-26T03:26:30Z")
I file this along with regionalisms like “prolly not a good idea” or “I hate it when I loose my keys”. I don’t know if it makes you stupid, but Edwin Newman, you ain’t. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-needs-washed/507575/96 "2009-08-26T03:37:27Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > “Change your language use”? Did you mean “usage”? Why do some people presume that their usage of language is superior to someone else’s? Especially when the differences are dialectical in nature. If an employer is so ignorant that he doesn’t understand a Southerner saying he’s fixing to do something, then the employer is an idiot. He might not be hired, but why is that a a reflection on him rather than on the employer? Yankees get away with dialectical travesties all the time: “you guys”, “hot dish”, “moiduh” (murder). Thought I typed “usage”, but thanks for being a cock about it. The suit and tie comparison I used was apt: employers (and I’m talking about “business” types here, not retail establishments), in my experience, expect you to be able to speak/e-mail in what is considered a “professional” manner, especially when you’re dealing with similar businesses/clients on a daily basis. If you’re not going to bother to learn what they consider “proper” usage, and conduct yourself as if you’re shooting the shit with your buddies on the corner during the interview (or on the job, in some cases), they’re likely to see you as not being serious about the opportunity. That’s just the way it is. You might think it’s unjust, but if you’ve found a job where no compromise is required I’d love to hear about it. It’s like asking “Why does it matter if someone’s resume is shot through with spelling and grammatical errors? They [the employers] still understand the gist of it!”. Not the way things work. But heck, it’s n ot like they teach this kind of stuff in English class or anything - however would someone from the boonies know what’s considered “proper”? It’s just one more elitist plot to oppress everybody who didn’t grow up on the Upper East Side. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-needs-washed/507575/97 "2009-08-26T03:55:12Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Just because it is popular turn of phrase in a few parts of the world doesn’t mean that it cannot be incredibly grating on my ears. So yes, that usage sounds like shit to me. Just thinking about the phrase causes me the same vexation as does trying to read leet speak. Do you expect me to change my dialect because it bothers you or are you just venting? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-needs-washed/507575/98 "2009-08-26T04:05:03Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > But heck, it’s n ot like they teach this kind of stuff in English class or anything - however would someone from the boonies know what’s considered “proper”? I can’t tell if you’re being serious or sarcastic here but something like “needs washed” wasn’t corrected in my English classes. I sincerely doubt any of my teachers would have seen the point or need for correcting it had they known it was going to confound outsiders, but you see, they would have said it too. Now, if you have any more overexplaining you need done, you just holler. ---
**Author:** ![Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7993a0/32.png) [@Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jamaika_a_jamaikaiake)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-needs-washed/507575/99 "2009-08-26T05:03:41Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > > [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > > > Actually, your rules make you sound like an uneducated hillbilly. But then, we all have personae that needs cultivated. > > Nonsense. I don’t have a southern accent! [Appalachia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appalachia) is not the same as [The South](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_United_States). I know one self-proclaimed hillbilly from West Virginia who does not consider herself Southern. For those playing at home, here are some helpful dialect maps of the US: (notice they don’t all agree, since they might arise from different measurements.) [http://www.ling.upenn.edu/phono\_atlas/NationalMap/NatMap1.html](http://www.ling.upenn.edu/phono_atlas/NationalMap/NatMap1.html) [http://www.uta.fi/FAST/US1/REF/dial-map.html](http://www.uta.fi/FAST/US1/REF/dial-map.html)(scroll down) ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-needs-washed/507575/100 "2009-08-26T05:04:09Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I can’t tell if you’re being serious or sarcastic here but something like “needs washed” wasn’t corrected in my English classes. I sincerely doubt any of my teachers would have seen the point or need for correcting it had they known it was going to confound outsiders, but you see, they would have said it too. > > Now, if you have any more overexplaining you need done, you just holler. I was definitely being sarcastic, but then, my teachers _did_ correct us when our speech strayed from “mainstream” English, so I guess I was taught to consider it more important than others. I was in the Army for four years, so I’m sure I’m familiar with all kinds of regional dialects and slang that might sound “hillbilly” or weird to my native Californian brethren who’ve never left the area (I had no idea Wisconsonites had their own term for water fountains before my service), and as a Californian I’ve got plenty of my own (“hella” always drew big laughs from the platoon), but I also know “hella” isn’t considered proper English, and didn’t demand it was the correct way to speak when mocked for it. I mean, if you ever watch TV or movies you’ve got a pretty good idea of what constitutes standard U.S. English, so it shouldn’t be too much of a shock when the larger population finds your regionalisms quaint or unprofessional. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-needs-washed/507575.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-needs-washed/507575.md?page=6)