# It's "needs washed"!!!! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 25, 2009, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-needs-washed/507575 "2009-08-25T00:16:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-needs-washed/507575/141 "2009-08-27T00:47:08Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Then you shouldn’t have ASKED. If you didn’t want to be told that yes, I have been involved in hiring, you shouldn’t have asked if I’ve been involved in hiring. > > As for anyone being an asshole, that’s spectacular that you think you can sit there and say other people are unprofessional hicks who sound like shit, but they are the ones who are assholes when they tell you work experience. Is your gauge of your own tone that laughably bad? Just to assure myself – do we have any issues between us as regards this thread? ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-needs-washed/507575/142 "2009-08-27T00:53:06Z")
ATTENTION: For the umpty-billionth time, “y’all” is not a pronoun. It is a contraction, and as such is a real word, unlike “youns” or “yinz” or the Og-forsaken “youse.” Thank you. That is all. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-needs-washed/507575/143 "2009-08-27T00:55:40Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Just to assure myself – do we have any issues between us as regards this thread? I don’t think so. Are we supposed to? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-needs-washed/507575/144 "2009-08-27T00:56:42Z")
Y’all is a plural second person pronoun. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-needs-washed/507575/145 "2009-08-27T01:08:17Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I don’t think so. Are we supposed to? Nope – but I just wanted to be sure – and given post content, it’d be easy to misread things.. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-needs-washed/507575/146 "2009-08-27T02:07:44Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Y’all is a plural second person pronoun. That’s exactly correct. And “all y’all” is a super-plural second person pronoun. Example usages: “I’m going to take y’all, and I’m going to take y’all also. Heck, I’m just going to take all y’all.” ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-needs-washed/507575/147 "2009-08-27T03:43:10Z")
Does anyone else notice the hypocrisy of a prescriptivist, who believes language rules are decided by experts, does not care when actual citations from an expert are given to prove that the prescriptivist is wrong? Anyways, I, who by my very OCD nature tend to speak proper English and have to work to speak slang, do not find “needs washed” offensive enough to be noticed in any context. I submit that someone who won’t hire a person due to such a minor colloquialism is likely anal retentive to be worth working for. The majority do not find this construction jarring. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-needs-washed/507575/148 "2009-08-27T04:40:20Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > The majority do not find this construction jarring. Oh, are you the voice of the majority now? It seems to me it’s mainly people from western Pennsylvania who _don’t_ find it jarring, judging from this thread. ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-needs-washed/507575/149 "2009-08-27T06:24:46Z")
Yeah, I have a hard time believing that the majority of English-speaking individuals do _not_ find “needs washed” jarring. Quite the opposite. But other than sounding like retarded-4-year-old-ese\*, there’s nothing wrong with it. At least so long as it’s used in a context where it will be understood. If I was a manager of a small store in an area where “needs washed” phrasing was common, I wouldn’t think twice about hiring someone who talked like that. If I was a manager at a large company that was looking for someone who could communicate with branches in various parts of the country, it might be an issue. (Of course, a single colloquialism, even one that affects my ears like a flaming spear q-tip, is only one factor. The overall ability to communicate clearly is what’s important.) \*Ok, that was mean. But it’s the pit, so fuck y’all. In fact, fuck _all_ y’all! ---
**Author:** ![EvilTOJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee59a6/32.png) [@EvilTOJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EvilTOJ)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-needs-washed/507575/150 "2009-08-27T07:23:29Z")
> [@PatriotGrrrl](#): > > You talk like a fag and your shit’s all retarded. But hey, tards can have a totally bitchin’ life. My ex wife is a retard. She’s a pilot now. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-needs-washed/507575/151 "2009-08-27T08:48:22Z")
The OP’s head needs examined. ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-needs-washed/507575/152 "2009-08-27T10:13:11Z")
> [@ataraxy22](#): > > I’m with you on this one Chessic Sense. I’m also a native-born Yinzer living in D.C. I left Pittsburgh at a young age though, and never thought I retained any of its dialectical nuances. However, recently a friend pointed out to me my frequent use of the “needs Xed” construct. I never even knew that this was not “standard” American English; it sounds perfectly normal to me, and implies “needs [to be] Xed”. To my ear “needs to be Xed” sounds somewhat stilted and should only be used to strongly emphasize to someone that someone (the person spoken to) should perform said action on the object (i.e. “The car needs to be washed” sort of implies to me that the speaker is telling the listener to wash it.) > > And what is it about this board with all the language prescriptivists? Linguistic Asberger’s? ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-needs-washed/507575/153 "2009-08-27T11:22:08Z")
> [@Michael\_Ellis](#): > > Just because you come from a place full of crippling idiocy doesn’t mean others have to let it slip. That’s a bit uncharitable, don’t you think? I’m from Central PA, and while I am generally careful to use proper English it is not entirely uncommon for me to slip back into the local vernacular while speaking to friends or family. It’s one thing to write it that way. I would find that wholly inappropriate. But it’s another thing entirely to speak that way when you don’t even realize you’re doing it and having someone give you flak for it. ---
**Author:** ![Belrix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed655f/32.png) [@Belrix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belrix)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-needs-washed/507575/154 "2009-08-27T15:08:49Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > Holy shit, who knew “If you want to be considered for a professional position, act professional” would cause such a fucking shitstorm? “professionally”. Adverb. You’re fired. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-needs-washed/507575/155 "2009-08-27T20:07:07Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > you’re just not getting it. the value judgment is not based on “who” speaks the dialect, it’s the value judgment that it’s spoken at all. kid rock is not any more impressive than snoop dogg when they speak. I’m getting it just fine–you just don’t understand nearly as much about language as you think you do. What part about “she hat” being just as grammatically correct in English as “her hat” don’t \*\*you \*\*understand? The only, only, only reason that the former is considered “wrong” while the latter is considered “right” is that the former is use by speakers of AAVE (African-American Vernacular English, since you’re probably too lazy to look that up, too), and the latter is a mainstream construction. THERE. IS. NOTHING. GRAMMATICALLY. WRONG. WITH. IT. FROM. A. LINGUISTIC. PERSPECTIVE. Get it now? So when the only difference is that it’s a morphosyntactic construction demonstrated by BLACK PEOPLE, that means it’s a form of RACISM. Seriously, go read the books I suggested and then come back. Until then, I’m probably going to blow you off, because you’re just being willfully ignorant. > [@BigT](#): > > Does anyone else notice the hypocrisy of a prescriptivist, who believes language rules are decided by experts, does not care when actual citations from an expert are given to prove that the prescriptivist is wrong? Mostly, it makes me want to beat them over the head with linguistics texts. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-needs-washed/507575/156 "2009-08-27T20:21:12Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Mostly, it makes me want to beat them over the head with linguistics texts. You are quickly becoming my favorite poster here. ---
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanub/32/132_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUB)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-needs-washed/507575/157 "2009-08-27T20:35:56Z")
I’m won’t even pretend that I have any kind of linguistic knowledge beyond my absolutely average, non-high falutin’ education but I always thought “she” is a prounoun refering to a female and “her” is a possessive prounoun refering to something, well, possessed by a female. Apparently, as dictated by the laws of grammar as explained by **Shot From Guns** I stand corrected. I’m ok with that. I learned from the last thread of this nature not to use the term “incorrect” when talking about language usage that bothers me. But the point I was trying to make earlier and which has been echoed by others is that regardless of whether it’s technically correct in the eyes and ears of language experts, the majority of people outside of the region where such usage is the norm think it’s irritating at best and probably also think the speaker sounds ingorant. Right or wrong, fair or not, that’s the way it is at the moment. Is anyone prepared to dispute that?If not then don’t act so puzzled that some people are rankled by your dialect. It may be hurtful to you but I don’t see it changing anytime soon. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-needs-washed/507575/158 "2009-08-27T20:39:16Z")
[QUOTE=jsgoddess] ``` Y'all is a plural second person pronoun. ``` [/QUOTE] > [@Liberal](#): > > That’s exactly correct. And “all y’all” is a super-plural second person pronoun. No it’s not. “You” is a second person plural pronoun (also singular).“All” is an adjective that indicates everyone that is being addressed even if its only one person. It is a little redundant since “you” implies “you all”, but acceptable when trying to differentiate between singular “you” and plural “you” or when gesturing to a sub-group. “Y’all” is just a contraction of “you all”. Also, It’s a thousand times less harsh on my ears as y’inz or youse. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-needs-washed/507575/159 "2009-08-27T20:40:38Z")
> [@WOOKINPANUB](#): > > I’m won’t even pretend that I have any kind of linguistic knowledge beyond my absolutely average, non-high falutin’ education but I always thought “she” is a prounoun refering to a female and “her” is a possessive prounoun refering to something, well, possessed by a female. In Standard English, yes. In AAVE, the rules change. It’s no different from the fact that adjectives typically come before the noun in English, but come after the noun in French. It’s just harder to distinguish because SAE and AAVE are more like each other than English and French are. Most of the culture clashes that arise due to dialects are from people who insist on measuring other people’s speech by their own internal dialect. ---
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanub/32/132_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUB)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-needs-washed/507575/160 "2009-08-27T20:50:05Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > In Standard English, yes. In AAVE, the rules change. It’s no different from the fact that adjectives typically come before the noun in English, but come after the noun in French. It’s just harder to distinguish because SAE and AAVE are more like each other than English and French are. **Most of the culture clashes that arise due to dialects are from people who insist on measuring other people’s speech by their own internal dialect**. This is interesting and I only have time today to comment on the part I bolded and that is to say that I understand the principle of this but I think the difference is that it’s the \*majority’s \*collective internal dialect as dictated by what most of learned in school and also by the media that makes other dialects such as AAVE sound"wrong". [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-needs-washed/507575.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-needs-washed/507575.md?page=9)