# It's Nintendo! And they're winning me back! **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [February 27, 2010, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-nintendo-and-theyre-winning-me-back/530642 "2010-02-27T12:36:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-nintendo-and-theyre-winning-me-back/530642/181 "2010-03-16T05:11:38Z")
Sheesh, reading this thread has me sure of exactly one thing–I’m gonna bust a few of my buddies in the chops next time I get accused of being a PC gaming elitist. =P (just 'cause I learned back in the GoldenEye days that I cannot FPS on a standard controller…) ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-nintendo-and-theyre-winning-me-back/530642/182 "2010-03-16T06:24:54Z")
> [@PopeJewish](#): > > I stated that the Sony numbers include forum subscribers, however, there are 12 million people on HOME (as stated here [http://kotaku.com/5492684/playstation-home-now-12-million-users-strong](http://kotaku.com/5492684/playstation-home-now-12-million-users-strong)), which requires a PS3. And the 20 million psn number came from here [http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/26/playstation-network-snags-20m-users-xbox-live-still-way-more-pr/](http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/26/playstation-network-snags-20m-users-xbox-live-still-way-more-pr/) 12 million people have downloaded Home, which is not the same thing as having 12 million users. Also, a lot of PSN users have multiple screennames (one for each region) and, as I said, a lot of people don’t even have a PS3, yet have a PSN name. I a PSN name and I don’t own a PS3 or a PSP, but I signed up for it anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-nintendo-and-theyre-winning-me-back/530642/183 "2010-03-16T15:22:47Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Thanks for the great contribution. I’m sure there were people climbing the walls waiting to see if that’s what I actually meant, which it was, and I’m pretty sure everyone knew. Or so the Germans would have us think. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-nintendo-and-theyre-winning-me-back/530642/184 "2010-03-16T15:29:05Z")
That doesn’t make any sense to me but I laughed. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-nintendo-and-theyre-winning-me-back/530642/185 "2010-03-16T15:40:46Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > That doesn’t make any sense to me but I laughed. It’s an old Norm MacDonald punchline from when he was doing Weekend Update on Saturday Night Live. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-nintendo-and-theyre-winning-me-back/530642/186 "2010-03-16T16:17:19Z")
> [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](#): > > It’s an old Norm MacDonald punchline from when he was doing Weekend Update on Saturday Night Live. Well, that explains it. I love Norm. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-nintendo-and-theyre-winning-me-back/530642/187 "2010-03-16T16:42:40Z")
Wow, this thread’s getting more interesting the more I read… I’ll continue to read, but address a question to me: > [@PopeJewish](#): > > Seriously? I loved Mario Galaxy, don’t get me wrong, but I thought the entire thing was FAR too easy I think the difficulty was perfect, but I may not be the best “gamer” in the world. I read about them as much as I platy them. It’s a business that’s interesting too keep up with, even if I only own a Wii. I don’t know where the thread is headed at this point; (am I “hard-core” if I can’t afford new games, or new systems, but play and read about them daily?). Megaman 10 is awesome, But I could beat Megaman 9, last Wily was too hard for me, got frustrated with trying. If Megaman 10 didn’t have an ‘easy mode’, I would have passed. I can’t wait to hear what you guys are saying about “Move”. ---
**Author:** ![PopeJewish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@PopeJewish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PopeJewish)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-nintendo-and-theyre-winning-me-back/530642/188 "2010-03-16T23:27:08Z")
> [@Red\_Barchetta](#): > > That article says nothing of Gold subscribers, and instead refers only to “active members.” > [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > 12 million people have downloaded Home, which is not the same thing as having 12 million users. Fine but if you take into account that Aaron Greenberg said the “majority” of active users pay for the gold service, you can safely say the number is in excess of 10 million. If you account for (and I’ll admit I’m guestimating here) people who download HOME to multiple accounts I’d say the number is still probably arounde 10 million, so you’re dealing with 20 million people across the 2 console systems that play online in some form or another. It’s still a multi-billion dollar industry on consoles alone, not even including online PC gaming and things like MMOs. My point still stands > [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > I can’t wait to hear what you guys are saying about “Move”. What’s left to be said? The industry has already called it the Playstation Dildo and an IGN writer said it played like an imprecise wiimote on games that were worse than 1st gen wii efforts (which is still better than what they had to say about Project Natal, though) ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-nintendo-and-theyre-winning-me-back/530642/189 "2010-03-17T00:13:53Z")
> [@PopeJewish](#): > > What’s left to be said? The industry has already called it the Playstation Dildo and an IGN writer said it played like an imprecise wiimote on games that were worse than 1st gen wii efforts (which is still better than what they had to say about Project Natal, though) I’m perhaps the 2nd biggest Nintendo fanboy here (behind only Justin\_Bailey) and I actually played with the Move at E3–it’s a very impressive piece of technology. I don’t know what that IGN writer’s problem was, but much of he said was (ironically) inaccurate, in my experience. ---
**Author:** ![PopeJewish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@PopeJewish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PopeJewish)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-nintendo-and-theyre-winning-me-back/530642/190 "2010-03-17T00:52:07Z")
> [@Red\_Barchetta](#): > > I’m perhaps the 2nd biggest Nintendo fanboy here (behind only Justin\_Bailey) and I actually played with the Move at E3–it’s a very impressive piece of technology. I don’t know what that IGN writer’s problem was, but much of he said was (ironically) inaccurate, in my experience. Dunno, you can read the [article here](http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/107/1077003p1.html) if ya like. But basically he said: > [@](#): > > I’m not impressed, I say. PS3 Move features almost no latency – just one frame – but that paper truth didn’t seem to translate to reality as I played with the controller at Sony’s event. Most of the stuff played like first-generation Wii efforts from third-parties… > …But playing the armchair role for a minute, it seems an unavoidable conclusion to me that Sony should have at least examined the very best genre-leaders on Nintendo’s platform and then duplicated if not surpassed them with its own Move-controlled experiences. For instance, Medal of Honor, The Conduit and Red Steel 2 offer fantastic controls for first-person shooters. Anything less than these will be considered substandard by the informed masses – at least those with knowledge of Wii’s library. Unfortunately, Move doesn’t yet compete. The company’s shooter feels laggy and unresponsive as I attempt to gun down robotic targets. The boxing game is not one-to-one, but gestural-based, and slow. Nearly everything feels redone, but somehow half-baked. > The exceptions are the augmented reality games, which project gameplay graphics onto real-time views of players using Sony’s camera. These are all flimsy affairs – mini-games of the sort that sold Wii consoles three years ago, but as I watch people having fun while they shave the heads of goofy virtual monsters, I can’t help but think how much my kids are going to love this stuff. It’s fluffy, sure, but families will eat it up and there’s just enough freshness that critics like me can’t say that Sony copied Nintendo, at least not blatantly. Just as importantly, it’s responsive and it feels good… > …Move’s hardware is more than competent and there’s certainly a lot of potential, but most of it remained untapped at the event. This opinion is seconded by the developer, which is working closely with the device. They tell me that they believe it will ultimately outperform the Wii remote in responsiveness and say that their own tests are already proving that true. I ask if there is the kind of lag I experienced at Sony’s demo and they say no, that it’s very fast and reliable when programmed correctly. They add that it still has some calibration issues like the Wii remote, but that it’s still an improvement. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-nintendo-and-theyre-winning-me-back/530642/191 "2010-03-17T01:04:24Z")
> [@PopeJewish](#): > > Dunno, you can read the [article here](http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/107/1077003p1.html) if ya like. But basically he said: Yeah, I read the article–I actually know the editor, having worked with him. His general assessment, I feel, is off base. The controller was amazingly responsive in the demos/games I tried, with the exception of the gladiator demo which seemed more gestural than 1:1, like many Wii games. ---
**Author:** ![PopeJewish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@PopeJewish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PopeJewish)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-nintendo-and-theyre-winning-me-back/530642/192 "2010-03-17T06:35:08Z")
> [@Red\_Barchetta](#): > > Yeah, I read the article–I actually know the editor, having worked with him. His general assessment, I feel, is off base. The controller was amazingly responsive in the demos/games I tried, with the exception of the gladiator demo which seemed more gestural than 1:1, like many Wii games. You’re pretty much alone in your opinion, it seems. Most of the ps3.ign editors didn’t like it, most said it was laggy with most of the games on show, only Ryan Clements, Scott Lowe and Craig Harris said it was responsive but even they didn’t seem impressed by it. They have a new article up at IGN: [http://ps3.ign.com/articles/107/1077671p1.html](http://ps3.ign.com/articles/107/1077671p1.html) ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-nintendo-and-theyre-winning-me-back/530642/193 "2010-03-17T07:30:15Z")
> [@PopeJewish](#): > > You’re pretty much alone in your opinion, it seems. Most of the ps3.ign editors didn’t like it, most said it was laggy with most of the games on show, only Ryan Clements, Scott Lowe and Craig Harris said it was responsive but even they didn’t seem impressed by it. They have a new article up at IGN: [http://ps3.ign.com/articles/107/1077671p1.html](http://ps3.ign.com/articles/107/1077671p1.html) That’s an awfully liberal use of the word “alone” if you cite one outlet, and even concede three of their editors agree with me that it is responsive. This statement of Ryan’s reflects everything I said: “It should be noted that the technology itself is quite **astounding** , at least in terms of its accuracy. When trying out the Move for myself, I was surprised at how \*\*perfect \*\*my motions were translated onto the screen.” As for your inference that they weren’t impressed despite this, you may have noticed IGN’s not too hot on motion controls in general, short of a select few editors. ---
**Author:** ![PopeJewish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@PopeJewish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PopeJewish)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-nintendo-and-theyre-winning-me-back/530642/194 "2010-03-17T23:52:26Z")
> [@Red\_Barchetta](#): > > That’s an awfully liberal use of the word “alone” if you cite one outlet, and even concede three of their editors agree with me that it is responsive. > > This statement of Ryan’s reflects everything I said: “It should be noted that the technology itself is quite **astounding** , at least in terms of its accuracy. When trying out the Move for myself, I was surprised at how \*\*perfect \*\*my motions were translated onto the screen.” > > As for your inference that they weren’t impressed despite this, you may have noticed IGN’s not too hot on motion controls in general, short of a select few editors. I agree, I’m a liberal guy like that 😉 A couple said it was very accurate, but several others mentioned it had badly noticeable lag. As for them being not too hot on motion controls in general, I side with them on that. I don’t like them short of a couple things on wii (like shaking the controller to get a boost during a jump in mario kart is ok, but most other things I simply don’t support). ---
**Author:** ![PopeJewish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@PopeJewish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PopeJewish)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2010, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-nintendo-and-theyre-winning-me-back/530642/195 "2010-03-18T00:20:51Z")
and, not to beat a dead horse, there being lag seems to be the majority opinion [http://kotaku.com/5495260/so-how-laggy-is-playstation-move](http://kotaku.com/5495260/so-how-laggy-is-playstation-move) ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2010, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-nintendo-and-theyre-winning-me-back/530642/196 "2010-03-18T00:25:18Z")
> [@PopeJewish](#): > > and, not to beat a dead horse, there being lag seems to be the majority opinion > > [http://kotaku.com/5495260/so-how-laggy-is-playstation-move](http://kotaku.com/5495260/so-how-laggy-is-playstation-move) Okay, let’s clear something up. That “lag” seems to only be introduced when overlapped over the live-video feed–the lag seems to be a result of the eyetoy’s video processing itself, as other eyetoy games, such as eyepet, share a similar amount of lag. In some of the demos I tried, such as table tennis, the lag was seemingly non-existent. Whatever lag there may have been, in either case really, was low enough to not pose a problem, imo. ---
**Author:** ![Airk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de053/32.png) [@Airk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airk)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2010, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-nintendo-and-theyre-winning-me-back/530642/197 "2010-03-18T16:13:35Z")
Frankly, I think Sony would have to be a bunch of D-grade morons to show this thing if it were lagging significantly. There’s likely Something Else At Work here. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2010, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-nintendo-and-theyre-winning-me-back/530642/198 "2010-03-18T16:17:50Z")
> [@Airk](#): > > Frankly, I think Sony would have to be a bunch of D-grade morons to show this thing if it were lagging significantly. There’s likely Something Else At Work here. And at the end of last generation, you’d say Sony would have to be a bunch of D-grade morons to sell half of Nintendo’s numbers and come in last place in the next round. I have no interest and no dog in the Move or Waggle or whatever it’s called topic, but “Sony aren’t morons” is an awful argument :p:D. ---
**Author:** ![Airk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de053/32.png) [@Airk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airk)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2010, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-nintendo-and-theyre-winning-me-back/530642/199 "2010-03-18T17:18:10Z")
Yeah, but all their previous decision making seemed to be founded on the “Our uber technology together with out brand will bring the customers crawling back!” principle. That’s arrogance, which is very different from “Display a crappy knockoff and lie about it to make it sound better than it is when people are RIGHT THERE using it.” S’a different kind of stupidity, ya know? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![PopeJewish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@PopeJewish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PopeJewish)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2010, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-nintendo-and-theyre-winning-me-back/530642/200 "2010-03-18T23:23:27Z")
> [@Airk](#): > > Yeah, but all their previous decision making seemed to be founded on the “Our uber technology together with out brand will bring the customers crawling back!” principle. That’s arrogance, which is very different from “Display a crappy knockoff and lie about it to make it sound better than it is when people are RIGHT THERE using it.” > > S’a different kind of stupidity, ya know? 😉 arrogance, sure, but putting an 8-core processor into a system that can’t even run all 8 cores at once or it’ll melt is a bit on the stupid side 😉 Plus the damn thing isn’t multi-threaded and AA has to be handled on the same chip. MS was smarter with the technology this time around, focusing on the GPU and RAM (though their gimped support of HDDVD was a disaster) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-nintendo-and-theyre-winning-me-back/530642.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-nintendo-and-theyre-winning-me-back/530642.md?page=11)