# It's no wonder man inveted Television. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 14, 2005, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-no-wonder-man-inveted-television/316993 "2005-08-14T19:08:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Spatial\_Rift\_47](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a8b319/32.png) [@Spatial\_Rift\_47](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spatial_Rift_47)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-no-wonder-man-inveted-television/316993/21 "2005-08-15T01:24:29Z")
> [@Regallag\_The\_Axe](#): > > I would skip Thoreau’s Walden if I were you. It doesn’t realy have a point, or go anywhere. It’s just sort of, “I was in the forest, and I thought about some stuff. Then I wrote about it.” **Regallag** , you’re too kind to the man. I had to read most of _Walden_ in my junior year of high school, and it was torturous. He rambles for 200 pages. Okay, he makes some decent points about society. So, write those down and forget about the rest. The whole book could have been written in a 5 page essay and spared countless high school students the pain of reading it. If, for some strange reason, you find yourself reading 1977 issues of _Glyph_, look for Walter Benn Michaels’ article “Walden’s False Bottoms.” In it is a concise summary of why _Walden_ sucks, plus quotes from Ralph Waldo Emerson – Thoreau’s close friend – explaining that (paraphrasing here) that Thoreau has a knack for using just the wrong word, and that reading his writing made him sick. ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-no-wonder-man-inveted-television/316993/22 "2005-08-15T01:26:06Z")
My family and I decided to do pretty much the same thing, except we compiled a list of 100 books and are reading through them, book-club format, 2 every 6 weeks. We just read Dorian Gray recently and all liked it. Same for Great Expectations - I can’t wait to read more Dickens. Dumas rocks, but I found The Last of the Mohicans to be a bad adventure story - THAT one was longwinded. The rest are, I think, on our list but not yet read. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-no-wonder-man-inveted-television/316993/23 "2005-08-15T01:27:02Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > I can’t understand saying “throw out Silas Marner and The Scarlet Letter.” As mentioned above, different strokes for different folks. I like some of the list, but certainly not all. Silas Marner and The Scarlet Letter are on the don’t care for side. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-no-wonder-man-inveted-television/316993/24 "2005-08-15T01:29:32Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#): > > As mentioned above, different strokes for different folks. I like some of the list, but certainly not all. Silas Marner and The Scarlet Letter are on the don’t care for side. You don’t have to care for them, but don’t say “toss them out,” to a potential reader. Let him decide for himself. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-no-wonder-man-inveted-television/316993/25 "2005-08-15T01:33:09Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > You don’t have to care for them, but don’t say “toss them out,” to a potential reader. Let him decide for himself. Answer in [your pit thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=330181). ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-no-wonder-man-inveted-television/316993/26 "2005-08-15T03:02:43Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > You don’t have to care for them, but don’t say “toss them out,” to a potential reader. Let him decide for himself. He _can_ decide for himself. It’s a suggestion, not a command. Regarding _Dorian Gray_, I was somewhat surprised (and creeped out) by the fact that the title character was only about 38. The various film adaptations always seemed to assume he was closer to 150. Read _Atlas Shrugged_ but go for coffee when you reach the “This is John Galt Speaking” section. ---
**Author:** ![Ashes\_Ashes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/db5fbb/32.png) [@Ashes\_Ashes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashes_Ashes)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-no-wonder-man-inveted-television/316993/27 "2005-08-15T03:05:15Z")
One thing I’ve noticed, my tastes change over time. I’ve hated some books with such burning passion, I’m surprised the pages weren’t singed around the edges when I was through. Others I’ve loved so much it broke my heart to read the last page. I adored Anne of Green Gables and read every book in the series at least twice, and I wasn’t a kid when I read them either. A few years later, it’s like somebody else read and loved those books. They’re nice little books, but I could never enjoy them half as much now, if I could even be persuaded to try them. Sometimes classics are classics because they were the first of their kind, innovative or daring or some such and now fall flat for many readers. The Scarlett Letter is perhaps one of those. In high school I read it and thought ‘big whoop, it’s not as though you don’t see something like this every other night of the week on Lifetime.’ A little more education and a lot more reading and I can see that there was more to the story than I first grasped _and_ it was pretty darned fierce for it’s time, as well. Some books you can’t appreciate until you realize what had or hadn’t, come before it. Since books don’t exactly spoil with age, I say give a book a try and come back to it in a year or so if it doesn’t engage you upon your first attempt. If I’d just tossed out Innocents Abroad, I’d have missed out on some sly fun. Sometimes audio books help a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Jurph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/50afbb/32.png) [@Jurph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jurph)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-no-wonder-man-inveted-television/316993/28 "2005-08-15T05:32:52Z")
I hated _Great Expectations_, and the second time I went in with the preconceived notion of hating it, knew what was coming around every bend, and hated it even more. The third time I was required to read it, however, I enjoyed it thoroughly. I’ve also read _Sherlock Holmes_ from that list. …other than that, I’ve got nothing. I’ll admit to giving most of those a pass because they were written in the 19th century. Most 19th-C. literature drives me up a wall, because often the characters are constrained by social norms which I would violate in a heartbeat for (a) True Love (b) Saving someone’s Honor (c) Revealing a rich person to be a Total Prick (d) Five Hundred Pounds a year. Maybe I need to give them another shot, though. Anyhow, if you find that several of these don’t ring your bell, I urge you to keep trying new ones, and also intersperse them with 20th-C. literature. Except for Burroughs’ _Naked Lunch_ which was drug-addled stream-of-consciousness crap. How many times can you throw a man out a window with his neck in a noose while he’s masturbating? Unless you’re dying to know, throw that one out. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-no-wonder-man-inveted-television/316993/29 "2005-08-15T05:55:00Z")
It’s not on your list, but check out Samuel Butler’s _The Way of All Flesh_. I’ve read it several times over the years and gotten more out of it each time. But I had a friend who had to read it in high school and she loathed it. Read in high school: _Moby Dick_ – some good stuff but one hell of a slog. _Walden_ – hated it, the whole class hated it, we thought he was a pretentious prick. I forget which of Dickens’ novels we had to read, but he at least could tell a story. ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-no-wonder-man-inveted-television/316993/30 "2005-08-15T06:08:30Z")
I’ve rarely–maybe never–been sorry I read a book, even if I had to drag myself through it letter-by-letter. This is even true of Theodore Dreiser (_An American Tragedy, Sister Carrie_) although talk about a slog–I sure wish he’d been a better writer. I would suggest to the OP, if you cannot force yourself through the book now, why give yourself a time limit? Maybe try _Dorian Gray_ five years down the road. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-no-wonder-man-inveted-television/316993/31 "2005-08-15T06:28:16Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Half way through Dorian Gray, I’m at serious risk of poking my eyes out with a sharp implement. What a load of homoerotic, self indulgent crap! You might want to skip _Moby Dick_ if you object to homoeroticism and self-indulgence… > [@QS](#): > > I though Ayn Rand had the gift for torturing a point to death Huh. I just started reading _The Fountainhead_ today and I’ve been enjoying it quite a bit. Not that it’s good writing or anything but because it’s every bit as swoony as the movie. > [@Friar Ted](#): > > No reason to read DORIAN GRAY when the 1940s Hurd Hatfield/George Sanders film so perfectly captured it. > > No real reason to watch any remakes either, tho I do mainly to see what they do with the picture. Disagree that the book’s not worth reading, but agree that the Hatfield/Sanders version is superb. I always thought that a remake with Jude Law would have been a natural but Jude’s getting a little old now. There’s a version in the works with the almost-but-not-quite talent-free Ryan Phillipe in the works. The CGI on the painting might be interesting. They don’t do much with Dorian’s picture, but this [version](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0258534/combined) is good for a laugh if you catch it on cable some rainy afternoon (and it features a BtVS alum). ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-no-wonder-man-inveted-television/316993/32 "2005-08-15T13:16:03Z")
I just tried (and failed) to listen to The Count of Monte Cristo as an audiobook. I’ll spoiler my reasons in case you want to try it yourself: Either I kept missing the transitions, or they just weren’t there. I’d be listening to the story, under the impression that he’d been in jail for about a month, then he’d say something that made me suddenly realize he’s been in there for years. Another time, I thought he’d just been released from jail, and he mentioned that he’d had a particular servant for ten years. The jail time was also told so quickly that I got no real sense of great time passing. I’m also supposed to believe that while he was in jail, he moved freely about through this secret passage without even coming close to getting caught. Never in all this long period did the jailer show up unscheduled. Then he gets out. As a result of his “education” by his fellow prisoner, he is now almost completely omniscient. He’s also unbelievably wealthy, thanks to the same guy. And he wants to seek revenge! Seems to me going to jail was the best thing that ever happened to him. Then he goes through this moronically convoluted plan to reward the guy who tried to get him out of jail. The guy was literally seconds away from blowing his head off by the time the money came through. Gee, it’s a good thing there were no unexpected delays! Another annoyance was that everyone’s name changed in the middle of the book. Okay, this guy’s name used to be so-and-so, but he got rich while you were in jail and now he calls himself such-and-such. The story itself held my interest, but eventually too many things piled up and I just couldn’t suspend the weight of disbelief anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-no-wonder-man-inveted-television/316993/33 "2005-08-15T13:21:14Z")
If you don’t like TPoDG because you don’t think it’s getting to the point fast enough, then scratch off any Charles Dickens novel. Oh and don’t read Moby Dick unless you just skip the endless chapters on sail mending and such. How far into TPoDG are you? Has Dorian started seeing that woman? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-no-wonder-man-inveted-television/316993/34 "2005-08-15T13:49:06Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > If you don’t like TPoDG because you don’t think it’s getting to the point fast enough, then scratch off any Charles Dickens novel. Oh and don’t read Moby Dick unless you just skip the endless chapters on sail mending and such. > > How far into TPoDG are you? Has Dorian started seeing that woman? You mean the actress? Yeah, well past that. He’s just hidden the picture in his attic because he’s seen the changes. BTW, it’s not the homoeroticism that bothers me. Knowing Wilde’s inclination, it’s not surprising in the least. But the long winded heart on his sleeve confessions of the artist for his muse… ugh… I just don’t have the strength to keep reading these angst riddled unrequinted obsessions. I must admit, there are gems sprinkled sparsely throughout the book. Mostly they come from Henry, the cynical manipulative bastard. Actually, he’s the only likeable character in the book so far. However they are few and far between and typically contained in the briefest and most to the point sentences. ---
**Author:** ![SkipMagic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skipmagic/32/20706_2.png) [@SkipMagic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkipMagic)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-no-wonder-man-inveted-television/316993/35 "2005-08-15T14:58:17Z")
Off to Cafe Society. ---
**Author:** ![FordPrefect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e99b99/32.png) [@FordPrefect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FordPrefect)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-no-wonder-man-inveted-television/316993/36 "2005-08-15T15:56:45Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > You shouldn’t feel guilty for not reading the classics. If you enjoy them, then read them. If you don’t, don’t. I will second this statement. For myself, I realized that given how fast I read and what books I like to read I will probably only read another 500 books in my lifetime. tops. Some of those readings will be repeats of books I found important or enjoyable… So why waste your precious reading time with crap. Crap like Dorian Gray. That book is fucking dull. Last night I was trying to read Francis Schaeffer’s Escape From Reason. I got about 20 pages in and realized that I was the title character and stopped. Which, is similiar to my “The Idiot” experience. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-no-wonder-man-inveted-television/316993/37 "2005-08-15T16:00:16Z")
I think you’ll find that _Treasure Island_ is an excellent book. I enjoyed it emmensely and as I read it to my 12 year old step son he said it was as good as _Lord of The Rings._ _Sherlock Holmes_ should be required for all humans, I re-read those stories at least once per year. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-no-wonder-man-inveted-television/316993/38 "2005-08-15T20:55:23Z")
I loved _Picture of Dorian Gray._ I still can remember the day I picked it up and first read it, at the High Street Hostel in Edinburgh, Scotland, in early May, 1996. Very few books come into my life that can trigger such a strong emotional memory in me. I’ve always loved this quote: “We can have in life but one great experience at best, and the secret of life is to reproduce that experience as often as possible.” ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-no-wonder-man-inveted-television/316993/39 "2005-08-15T22:12:56Z")
> [@Jurph](#): > > …other than that, I’ve got nothing. I’ll admit to giving most of those a pass because they were written in the 19th century. Most 19th-C. literature drives me up a wall, because often the characters are constrained by social norms which I would violate in a heartbeat Why, Jurph, don’t you realize that if it became known that you had accepted your manservant’s invitation to his wedding and were thus seen imbibing and (_gasp_) _laughing_ in the presence of the lower classes, your Gentleman’s Club would have no choice but to regretfully blackball you from their annual twelfth night wassailing & foxhunt social? If you had even a shred of honour, the very _idea_ would make you instantly die of shame! ---
**Author:** ![bizzwire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/958977/32.png) [@bizzwire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bizzwire)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-no-wonder-man-inveted-television/316993/40 "2005-08-15T23:44:10Z")
Only thing I would add is _Bullfinch’s Mythology_… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-no-wonder-man-inveted-television/316993.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-no-wonder-man-inveted-television/316993.md?page=3)