# It's not mouses or mice, dammit! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 5, 2002, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-mouses-or-mice-dammit/107337 "2002-05-05T02:15:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Cargogal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/48db29/32.png) [@Cargogal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cargogal)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2002, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-mouses-or-mice-dammit/107337/21 "2002-05-06T00:24:32Z")
_Mus computerus_? ---
**Author:** ![white-tigeress](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f475e1/32.png) [@white-tigeress](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/white-tigeress)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2002, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-mouses-or-mice-dammit/107337/22 "2002-05-06T00:37:21Z")
Nope just plain old mouse will do mwahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2002, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-mouses-or-mice-dammit/107337/23 "2002-05-06T01:32:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by scott evil \* > Apple and Microsoft ::shudder:: style guides have made it quite clear on how to refer to “mouse” in the plural. \*\* And we care about what they say why? Xerox, who predate MS and Apple in mice used the plural form “mice”, which makes sense. While I am quite thankfull for Microsofts screwy software(it enables me to make my mortgage payment), and supporting thier servers is my chosen career field, I hardly consider them an athourity on anything they didnt create. Apple, well thier just plain wierd, and I dont like them because they dont require as much support, so I dont pay them much attention. I’ll keep using the term mice Mice,Mice,Mice,Mice,Mice,Mice,Mice,Mice,Mice,Mice,Mice,Mice,Mice,Mice,Mice,Mice, so there. ---
**Author:** ![scott\_evil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/91b2a8/32.png) [@scott\_evil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scott_evil)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2002, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-mouses-or-mice-dammit/107337/24 "2002-05-06T03:04:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bdgr \* > \*\*Xerox, who predate MS and Apple in mice used the plural form “mice”, which makes sense. \*\* Umm… I used to work for Xerox. They did, in fact, implement the use of the mouse with the Alto computer, and later on with the Star - both of which predated the Macintosh. However, the mouse was invented in the late 60s as a wooden accessory. I’d give you a link but I’m too tired right now. MOUSE DEVICES. 😉 - s.e. ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2002, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-mouses-or-mice-dammit/107337/25 "2002-05-06T03:20:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by scott evil \* > \*\* > > Umm… I used to work for Xerox. They did, in fact, implement the use of the mouse with the Alto computer, and later on with the Star - both of which predated the Macintosh. However, the mouse was invented in the late 60s as a wooden accessory. I’d give you a link but I’m too tired right now. > > MOUSE DEVICES. 😉 > > - s.e. \*\* Didnt say that they invented it. this cat invented it [http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid\_1633000/1633972.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_1633000/1633972.stm) but I have no idea what he called more than one of them. Xerox, however refered to more than one of them as mice, and therefore being the oldest point of referance I have, I will go with them. Mouse devices sounds stupid, its clumsey, and nobody in the real world uses it. They say mice or mouses, but never ever mouse devices, so regardless of how microsoft and apple wanna rewrite the way we say things, it aint gonna happen. Get over it. ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2002, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-mouses-or-mice-dammit/107337/26 "2002-05-06T03:56:52Z")
[http://www.cyberwalker.net/columns/jul97/070797.html](http://www.cyberwalker.net/columns/jul97/070797.html) Apparently MIT and Logitech both refer to it as mice. ---
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2002, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-mouses-or-mice-dammit/107337/27 "2002-05-06T04:08:24Z")
I agree that “mouse devices” is rather lame. Unless you call _one_ of them a “mouse device”, “mouse device **s** ” is unacceptable. On the other hand, I can get behind “XY-PIDSes” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2002, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-mouses-or-mice-dammit/107337/28 "2002-05-06T04:25:43Z")
I’m guessing that if you write user guides for software that is run on an Apple or Microsoft operating system, you use the style guides of Apple and Microsoft, so as to keep everything consistent. That is what style guides are for, after all. Of course, saying that because the Apple and Microsoft style guides say so, that “mouse devices” is the correct plural is a bit much. I don’t see any reason to close the case with those two. How about the _Chicago Manual of Style_, the _AP Stylebook_, or the one by the MLA (can’t recall its name)? Do they cover the issue? ---
**Author:** ![scott\_evil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/91b2a8/32.png) [@scott\_evil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scott_evil)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2002, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-mouses-or-mice-dammit/107337/29 "2002-05-06T04:40:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by waterj2 \* > \*\* How about the _Chicago Manual of Style_, the _AP Stylebook_, or the one by the MLA (can’t recall its name)? Do they cover the issue? \*\* We use that as well. In any case, I have never had to document a mouse in the plural. It’s almost irrelevant, but take it from someone who has the credentials. Go ahead an call them “mice,” but that would not sit well in any of my user manuals. - s.e. ---
**Author:** ![Angel\_of\_the\_Lord](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angel_of_the_lord/32/2949_2.png) [@Angel\_of\_the\_Lord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angel_of_the_Lord)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2002, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-mouses-or-mice-dammit/107337/30 "2002-05-06T04:52:13Z")
See, though…most people don’t write user manuals. Usually, when I’m talking about computer things in the plural, it’s along the lines of “hey, which of you motherfuckers stole the balls from the mouses in the English lab?” I think it’s that way with most people. For the record, when I’m writing a story, I tend to delibrately avoid things like this, which could throw the reader. And, no, a mouse is not _strictly_ necessary. My laptop has a touchpad, which I’ve used before with a fair amount of sucess. ---
**Author:** ![Angel\_of\_the\_Lord](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angel_of_the_lord/32/2949_2.png) [@Angel\_of\_the\_Lord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angel_of_the_Lord)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2002, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-mouses-or-mice-dammit/107337/31 "2002-05-06T04:53:46Z")
…I’ve had a fair amount of _success_ too… ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2002, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-mouses-or-mice-dammit/107337/32 "2002-05-06T06:01:35Z")
I guess my previous post was too subtle, so I’ll elucidate. The term “mouse device” is bad English. The mouse is the device; to use both is redundant. Microsoft may want to propagate the term. If so, desecration of the English language is just one more crime we’ll charge Bill with come the Revolution. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2002, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-mouses-or-mice-dammit/107337/33 "2002-05-06T09:58:08Z")
Actually… **Monty** ’s got the right idea (well, in my opinion.) We have the antennae/antennas distinction, so why not mice/mouses depending on what you’re referring to? For whatever reason, “mice” just doesn’t sit well with me when talking about computer equipment. I prefer the distinction of “mouses” vs “mice.” However, there’s certainly good argument for using “mice.” Has anybody ever done a usage poll to see which word native English speakers prefer? ---
**Author:** ![Fern\_Forest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/71c47a/32.png) [@Fern\_Forest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fern_Forest)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2002, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-mouses-or-mice-dammit/107337/34 "2002-05-06T10:57:14Z")
Well, [Doug Engelbert](http://www.superkids.com/aweb/pages/features/mouse/mouse.html) calls em mice in this interview. And he invented them. ---
**Author:** ![Wikkit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c0e974/32.png) [@Wikkit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wikkit)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2002, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-mouses-or-mice-dammit/107337/35 "2002-05-06T10:58:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by scott evil \* > **First off, a mouse is no longer a computer accessory, but a computer _necessity_.** Yeah, if you really really want RSI. They’re also slower than the keyboard in proper operating systems and applications. ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2002, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-mouses-or-mice-dammit/107337/36 "2002-05-06T13:09:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Osiris \* > \*\*Well, [Doug Engelbert](http://www.superkids.com/aweb/pages/features/mouse/mouse.html) calls em mice in this interview. And he invented them. \*\* HA! The definative answer. In your face MS, Apple, and SE! ---
**Author:** ![Fern\_Forest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/71c47a/32.png) [@Fern\_Forest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fern_Forest)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2002, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-mouses-or-mice-dammit/107337/37 "2002-05-06T14:04:26Z")
Oops, Engelbart is his name. ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2002, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-mouses-or-mice-dammit/107337/38 "2002-05-06T14:14:59Z")
We wouldnt wanna confuse that. Some people get a bit excited about such things around ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2002, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-mouses-or-mice-dammit/107337/39 "2002-05-06T14:24:38Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Angel of the Lord \* > \*\* Usually, when I’m talking about computer things in the plural, it’s along the lines of “hey, which of you motherfuckers stole the balls from the mouses in the English lab?”_\* To which a casual bystander’s only reaction should be to be glad that the reference was not to the motherfuckers stealing the balls from the _mice_ in the _Biology_ lab 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Fern\_Forest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/71c47a/32.png) [@Fern\_Forest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fern_Forest)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2002, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-mouses-or-mice-dammit/107337/40 "2002-05-06T14:25:06Z")
Well Engelbart is just that much cooler. Plus I’d hate to have him come in here and yell at me for misspelling his name. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-mouses-or-mice-dammit/107337.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-mouses-or-mice-dammit/107337.md?page=3)