# It's not the money, it's the principle! No, it's the money **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 10, 2014, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-the-money-its-the-principle-no-its-the-money/706866 "2014-12-10T18:36:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-the-money-its-the-principle-no-its-the-money/706866/201 "2014-12-15T03:00:59Z")
> [@Nanoda](#): > > Websites take seconds to update, Not all websites are easy to update And not everybody can “update in seconds” Anybody that has worked with “mom and pop” companies on their websites can tell you how hard it can be. Just earlier this year, I wanted to help a small childcare centre update their Joomla based website via their CMS. It took me almost a month just to get the password to access the CMS…I had to go back to the original manager, who then had to refer me to the designer. And after all that - we still had an issue formatting the update “nicely” (I am not familiar with Joomla) And on a slightly different note - the website doesn’t accept payment - so in this instance, the customer would have been given a total price over the phone before payment was made? How is that “a scam”? ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-the-money-its-the-principle-no-its-the-money/706866/202 "2014-12-15T03:50:39Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > Not all websites are easy to update > > And not everybody can “update in seconds” > > Anybody that has worked with “mom and pop” companies on their websites can tell you how hard it can be. > > Just earlier this year, I wanted to help a small childcare centre update their Joomla based website via their CMS. > > It took me almost a month just to get the password to access the CMS…I had to go back to the original manager, who then had to refer me to the designer. > > And after all that - we still had an issue formatting the update “nicely” (I am not familiar with Joomla) > > And on a slightly different note - the website doesn’t accept payment - so in this instance, the customer would have been given a total price over the phone before payment was made? How is that “a scam”? Yeah, the business owner’s IT problems are not the customer’s problem. > [@Bone](#): > > I would expect in response all vendors would either put a disclaimer on their websites that all prices are subject to change at any time and that the listed price is just a guide, or businesses simply wouldn’t have prices listed. Both are great for consumers! No, that’s a stupid, bordering on illegal, philosophy. Prices are not “subject to change” from the time you see them on the site to when you place the order. That’s called a “bait & switch” and is a form of fraud. I agree with the HBS guy. I actually had a similar thing happen a few weeks ago. For years I would order a sushi lunch special through [Seamless.com](http://Seamless.com). In the notes, I’d ask them to replace the California roll with a spicy tuna roll and would pay the $2.00 difference. So one day, they changed their policy on online substitutions and my lunch special shows up with a Cali roll. I call them and they explain their new policy, but fact of the matter is that’s not what I ordered. They should have called me to confirm the change or ask if I wanted to cancel it. Ultimately they sent another guy with my tuna roll, but my lunch was still kind of ruined. A bit higher stakes, another time, I was interviewing for a job at a software company. Well after a dozen interviews, they made me an offer, but the headhunter said there was a “misunderstanding” an the salary was like $15 k less than what we had been discussing for 2 months. Well, my response was basically “fuck you. You eat your “misunderstanding” or I’ll keep looking for a different job.” That was more on principle as X-$15k is still higher than the $405 a week I was getting on unemployment. But fuck it. I don’t know whose “mistake” it was, but I don’t want to work for a place that makes those kinds of mistakes. Ultimately I got what I wanted. Sorry, but if demanding a party adheres to the terms of the deal we negotiated makes me an “asshole” then I’m perfectly comfortable with that. Doesn’t matter if it’s a sushi roll or a seven figure job. I don’t give a shit about “mistakes” or “misunderstandings” or “out of date websites” that conveniently benefit you and screw me. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-the-money-its-the-principle-no-its-the-money/706866/203 "2014-12-15T03:57:16Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Yeah, the business owner’s IT problems are not the customer’s problem. > > Sorry, but if demanding a party adheres to the terms of the deal we negotiated makes me an “asshole” then I’m perfectly comfortable with that. Doesn’t matter if it’s a sushi roll or a seven figure job. I don’t give a shit about “mistakes” or “misunderstandings” or “out of date websites” that conveniently benefit you and screw me. But you didn’t threaten to sue anyone, or try to get 45k. So I wouldn’t say you’re reaching assholedom with these examples. I’m not saying the restaurant owner was right in the situation either, but Edelman kind of crossed some sort of line when he started wanting triple damages. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-the-money-its-the-principle-no-its-the-money/706866/204 "2014-12-15T03:57:35Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Given the immensity of some of the actions that would be covered by these consumer protection agencies, and their consistent problems obtaining funding, you want them to chase down and investigate a $1 difference between an online menu and the regular store menu? But it’s not really a $1 is it. Let’s say that 50 items are ordered off that list every day. So it’s $50 per day, but that’s not the point is it? It’s $18250 every year. Isn’t that a serious crime? Stealing that much money from your customers? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-the-money-its-the-principle-no-its-the-money/706866/205 "2014-12-15T04:04:09Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Yeah, the business owner’s IT problems are not the customer’s problem. Agree, 100%. There are two grocery stores in my area that are independent, immigrant family owned businesses. They manage to update their website every week, with each new sales flyer. Realistically, how often do restaurants change their prices? Once, maybe twice, a year? ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-the-money-its-the-principle-no-its-the-money/706866/206 "2014-12-15T04:37:44Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > No, that’s a stupid, bordering on illegal, philosophy. Prices are not “subject to change” from the time you see them on the site to when you place the order. That’s called a “bait & switch” and is a form of fraud. [http://lmgtfy.com/?q=“prices+subject+to+change”](http://lmgtfy.com/?q=%22prices+subject+to+change%22) [… ‘blah blah blah, and I got offered a 7 figure job and act like a dickhead when I don’t get my sushi just the way I like it blah blah blah’…] > [@msmith537](#): > > Sorry, but if demanding a party adheres to the terms of the deal we negotiated makes me an “asshole” then I’m perfectly comfortable with that. Doesn’t matter if it’s a sushi roll or a seven figure job. I don’t give a shit about “mistakes” or “misunderstandings” or “out of date websites” that conveniently benefit you and screw me. You may be comfortable with being an asshole but a website menu that says “prices may be subject to change” is not offering you the terms to any deal. The reason no case was ever made, no refund was ever issued, and no action was ever taken in this case, is that it was not any breach of contract. They were operating legally and ethically. It was just some hothead who fancies himself the Sheriff of The Internet being a big cry baby until his behavior went public and he realized what a stupid douche he looked like to everyone. ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-the-money-its-the-principle-no-its-the-money/706866/207 "2014-12-15T05:25:15Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > But it’s not really a $1 is it. Let’s say that 50 items are ordered off that list every day. So it’s $50 per day, but that’s not the point is it? It’s $18250 every year. Isn’t that a serious crime? Stealing that much money from your customers? The Website is a picture of an outdated menu. It had no ability to charge people. Anyone placing an order was informed of the total based on the current menu pricing. It wasn’t stealing any money. They were charging anyone who ordered the current menu pricing, it isn’t like they randomly overcharged people. If you went into the restaurant the new menus had the correct pricing. People may have been misinformed by the outdated menu but there was ample opportunity to be aware of the actual pricing. Shitty customer service is not theft nor is it a crime. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-the-money-its-the-principle-no-its-the-money/706866/208 "2014-12-15T05:45:54Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > **Peremensoe** - I’m suggesting that slow escalation implies that eg nasty reviews can wait until step 3 or 4. My thinking is, it should only take bringing such a matter to a merchant’s attention once, to ascertain their honesty. If it really was just a mistake, as some seem sure, they’ll _want_ to make amends, right? They’ll recognize the problem, they’ll care about their reputation. No pressing required. If they don’t, it _was_ a scam, or they just don’t care–and they deserve to get slammed. I don’t see why a customer with such a simple, clear grievance should bother with multiple rounds of dickering. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-the-money-its-the-principle-no-its-the-money/706866/209 "2014-12-15T06:55:25Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > No, that’s a stupid, bordering on illegal, philosophy. Prices are not “subject to change” from the time you see them on the site to when you place the order. That’s called a “bait & switch” and is a form of fraud. $4 out of a $50+ order is not a “bait and switch” and more than looking at another lady walking down the street when I’m married is cheating. Here’s a simple explanation of “bait and switch” from wiki so you can recalibrate your “scale meter” > [@](#): > > Bait-and-switch is a form of fraud used in retail sales but also employed in other contexts. First, customers are “baited” by merchants’ advertising products or services at a low price, but when customers visit the store, they discover that the advertised goods are not available, or the customers are pressured by sales people to consider similar, but higher priced items (“switching”). ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-the-money-its-the-principle-no-its-the-money/706866/210 "2014-12-15T07:02:28Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Yeah, the business owner’s IT problems are not the customer’s problem. > > A bit higher stakes, another time, I was interviewing for a job at a software company. Well after a dozen interviews, they made me an offer, but the headhunter said there was a “misunderstanding” an the salary was like $15 k less than what we had been discussing for 2 months. Well, my response was basically “fuck you. You eat your “misunderstanding” or I’ll keep looking for a different job.” That was more on principle as X-$15k is still higher than the $405 a week I was getting on unemployment. But fuck it. I don’t know whose “mistake” it was, but I don’t want to work for a place that makes those kinds of mistakes. Ultimately I got what I wanted. > > Sorry, but if demanding a party adheres to the terms of the deal we negotiated makes me an “asshole” then I’m perfectly comfortable with that. Doesn’t matter if it’s a sushi roll or a seven figure job. I don’t give a shit about “mistakes” or “misunderstandings” or “out of date websites” that conveniently benefit you and screw me. TWELVE interviews for a job? Is this hyperbole or do you literally mean a dozen interviews? The vendors IT problems may not be your “problem” - but the thing is, the website was not processing orders, it was not taking any money, and the discrepancy was very small - Sure, in the perfect of all possible worlds the prices would be up to date, but again - as a consumer I am smart enough to know to adjust my expectations according to who I am dealing with - and a “mom n pop” restaurant gets a slight pass from me on being a bit out of date. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-the-money-its-the-principle-no-its-the-money/706866.md?page=10)