# It's not the money, it's the principle! No, it's the money **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 10, 2014, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-the-money-its-the-principle-no-its-the-money/706866 "2014-12-10T18:36:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-the-money-its-the-principle-no-its-the-money/706866/61 "2014-12-11T16:16:18Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Why do you assume a small mom and pop business is making a mistake but a large corporation is stealing? My comments are focused on public perception in regards to his actions. It appears that he treated the small business in the same manner he treated the large corporations he dealt with. Whether or not the small business is doing evil or the large corporation is doing good/not doing any evil is not of supreme relavence in terms of public perception; the public will look unfavorably upon the use of this kind of treatment in the wrong context. I am saying the he may be very tone deaf to these things. I’m having a little trouble explaining the point, but really he may be someone who just sees certain things as right or wrong and not really have an appreciation for any other factors or the context of a situation. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-the-money-its-the-principle-no-its-the-money/706866/62 "2014-12-11T16:45:45Z")
> [@Mr.Nylock](#): > > …But then again, I also look at the fact that he mentions that he is going to contact the authorities on the business owner, and he does not. So he is using legal terms and making idle threats to intimidate the owner, and does not plan to carry out these threats - that makes me lean towards thinking he is lying scum. Oh yeah, he’s definitely acting like a dick too. I think he was in the right to contact the owner about the discrepancy. And if he wasn’t satisfied with their response ( I wouldn’t have been) he would have been in the right to either try again, or to call the attorney general and complain. But to just threaten them and escalate his personal demands with vague stuff about what the law says is obnoxious. And the restaurant being completely wrong in this matter doesn’t make him any less obnoxious. ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-the-money-its-the-principle-no-its-the-money/706866/63 "2014-12-11T17:05:05Z")
So chronically mismanaged and broke Nassau County NY, installed speed cameras in a bunch of school zones and collected about $30 million in fines. But the cameras (and the fines) have outraged the citizenry. So much so, that the majority of the county legislature wants to end the program before being voted out of office in November. However, the county executive has pointed out that there will be a $30 million gap in county finances in the next year if that is done. So now the two most important things are politics and money. The safety of school children never is mentioned. [Residents protest the cameras](http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2014/11/16/nassau-county-group-protests-use-of-speed-cameras-in-school-zones/) Suffolk County, seeing the outrage, has decided not to go ahead with a similar program. Yep, money is way ahead of whatever is in second place. ---
**Author:** ![Sr\_Siete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@Sr\_Siete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sr_Siete)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-the-money-its-the-principle-no-its-the-money/706866/64 "2014-12-11T17:40:26Z")
I’m with the Edelman guy. False advertising is infuriating no matter at what scale. Four bucks may be the difference between me ordering there or ordering from another, cheaper place, also a pop and mom business of hard working immigrants who actually bother with having honest prices in their websites. The fact that Mr. Duan dragged the issue instead of changing the website immediately isn’t really making the whole thing look like an innocent mistake. ---
**Author:** ![Flywheel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Flywheel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flywheel)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-the-money-its-the-principle-no-its-the-money/706866/65 "2014-12-11T18:12:24Z")
Update: Mr. Bartley’s in Cambridge is now offering the Ben Edelman Burger: “a bacon cheeseburger with ‘egg on its face’ (fortune cookies $4.00 extra).” ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-the-money-its-the-principle-no-its-the-money/706866/66 "2014-12-11T18:23:04Z")
> [@Sr\_Siete](#): > > I’m with the Edelman guy. False advertising is infuriating no matter at what scale. Four bucks may be the difference between me ordering there or ordering from another, cheaper place, also a pop and mom business of hard working immigrants who actually bother with having honest prices in their websites. > > The fact that Mr. Duan dragged the issue instead of changing the website immediately isn’t really making the whole thing look like an innocent mistake. Meh. I see it as an honest mistake. They had their menus updated but not their website, which is maintained by a third party. I’m with Mr. Duan. He thought the “prices may vary” statement had him covered for a whole $1 per item and offered reimbursement of varying amounts all along. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-the-money-its-the-principle-no-its-the-money/706866/67 "2014-12-11T18:26:39Z")
His aunt, [Marian Wright Edelman](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marian_Wright_Edelman) of the Children’s Defense Fund, has to be mortified at all this, but AFAIK she hasn’t commented publicly. ---
**Author:** ![Sr\_Siete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@Sr\_Siete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sr_Siete)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-the-money-its-the-principle-no-its-the-money/706866/68 "2014-12-11T18:30:04Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Meh. I see it as an honest mistake. They had their menus updated but not their website, which is maintained by a third party. I’m with Mr. Duan. He thought the “prices may vary” statement had him covered for a whole $1 per item and offered reimbursement of varying amounts all along. Until the email when he says he talked to a lawyer, tried to get out pretending that it was the website for another restaurant and refused to reimburse anything until told to do so by authorities. That’s very sketchy behaviour. And at no point is it mentioned whether the website was updated or not. ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-the-money-its-the-principle-no-its-the-money/706866/69 "2014-12-11T19:00:53Z")
> [@Squall Winds](#): > > $4? Really? > > Someone in the underclass like myself would have a reason to get pissed over four bucks–because four bucks is a significant amount for this part of the ladder. But a high-falutin’ professional who probably could wipe his ass after the beer shits with twenties and feel no real financial hit needs to shut up and eat the loss. Someone to whom the $4 matters may not have time to pursue it. The point was for the restaurant to quit overcharging and falsely advertising everyone, not for the lawyer to get his $4 back, which he obviously could earn back in less time than it took him to write the email. Being stuck wiping your ass with pennies and payday loan receipts is keeping you from seeing the big picture. ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5ac83/32.png) [@Doug\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_K)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-the-money-its-the-principle-no-its-the-money/706866/70 "2014-12-11T19:02:38Z")
> [@Emiliana](#): > > [Edelman made an inadvertent mistake.](http://www.boston.com/food-dining/restaurants/2014/12/10/ben-edelman-appears-have-sent-racist-email-chinese-restaurant-owner-today/GdoeZWwPONkC1NNSQSsBVM/story.html) What mistake? That link goes to [boston.com](http://boston.com) retracting a story that was published without verification. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-the-money-its-the-principle-no-its-the-money/706866/71 "2014-12-11T19:16:23Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Meh. I see it as an honest mistake. They had their menus updated but not their website, which is maintained by a third party. I’m with Mr. Duan. He thought the “prices may vary” statement had him covered for a whole $1 per item and offered reimbursement of varying amounts all along. My rule of honest mistakes is that when I see somebody has a consistent habit of making “mistakes” that always work in his favor, I assume that he knows very well what he’s doing. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-the-money-its-the-principle-no-its-the-money/706866/72 "2014-12-11T19:21:26Z")
> [@Mr.Nylock](#): > > My comments are focused on public perception in regards to his actions. It appears that he treated the small business in the same manner he treated the large corporations he dealt with. Whether or not the small business is doing evil or the large corporation is doing good/not doing any evil is not of supreme relavence in terms of public perception; the public will look unfavorably upon the use of this kind of treatment in the wrong context. I am saying the he may be very tone deaf to these things. > > I’m having a little trouble explaining the point, but really he may be someone who just sees certain things as right or wrong and not really have an appreciation for any other factors or the context of a situation. But that seems to be the same thing as what I’ve already said - an argument that if somebody poorer than you cheats you, you’re just supposed to suck it up. You’re only allowed to complain about being cheated if it’s done by somebody richer than you. I don’t agree with that principle. Cheating is wrong and it doesn’t matter who you’re doing it to. It’s just as wrong to cheat a rich man as it is to cheat a poor man. And both a rich man and a poor man are entitled to seek redress when they get cheated. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-the-money-its-the-principle-no-its-the-money/706866/73 "2014-12-11T19:22:00Z")
> [@Sr\_Siete](#): > > Until the email when he says he talked to a lawyer, Only after the Hungry Douchebag said he reported the mistake to the authorities and went on to threaten further legal actions. > [@Sr. Siete](#): > > tried to get out pretending that it was the website for another restaurant He admitted very early that the website the Hungry Douchebag used was out of date and it did not reflect the actual price of the food. He also agreed to pay the guy his money back right away. He wasn’t trying to get out of anything until the Hungry Douchebag threatened legal repercussions for an out of date website. > [@Sr Siete](#): > > and refused to reimburse anything until told to do so by authorities. That’s simply not true. He offered to reimburse the Hungry Douchebag in the second email. It wasn’t until the Hungry Douchebag reported it to the “authorities” that they said they’d have to go through those channels rather than solve it like normal fucking people > [@Sr. Siete](#): > > That’s very sketchy behaviour. Baloney. Restaurant made a mistake, offered to reimburse for the mistake, and it should have been over with. But the Hungry Douchebag got threatening and tried to bully them, so they dug in their heels. I would to, if for no other reason than to piss off Mr. Douchebag. And possibly you. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-the-money-its-the-principle-no-its-the-money/706866/74 "2014-12-11T19:47:37Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > But that seems to be the same thing as what I’ve already said - an argument that if somebody poorer than you cheats you, you’re just supposed to suck it up. You’re only allowed to complain about being cheated if it’s done by somebody richer than you. > > I don’t agree with that principle. Cheating is wrong and it doesn’t matter who you’re doing it to. It’s just as wrong to cheat a rich man as it is to cheat a poor man. And both a rich man and a poor man are entitled to seek redress when they get cheated. I am not saying that it is right or wrong; I am saying that the public will have perceptions based on context and may place greater importance on the context than other matters in the case. You are going on and on about this other direction for some reason; but that is not what I am talking about; I do not know how better to explain it. I mean, the public may have it’s own view of fairness, it may not be logical, it may not seem fair, it may not make sense - but really, I think it is pretty predictable to a large number of people what public reaction would be in this situation. Given the power imbalance (perceived or otherwise) between the two individuals, the public will have a far more negative reaction to the perceived excessive use of force by Edelman than they would to the dishonest pricing of the business owner. The issue of materiality also comes into effect - the material harm done to Edelman, is nowhere near in degree to the degree of material harm Edelman is threatening to the business owner. ---
**Author:** ![Sr\_Siete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@Sr\_Siete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sr_Siete)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-the-money-its-the-principle-no-its-the-money/706866/75 "2014-12-11T20:07:48Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Baloney. Restaurant made a mistake, offered to reimburse for the mistake, and it should have been over with. But the Hungry Douchebag got threatening and tried to bully them, so they dug in their heels. I would to, if for no other reason than to piss off Mr. Douchebag. And possibly you. Well, you seem to have decided already what happened and what everybody was thinking. And apparently everyone who disagrees with you must be a jerk. That’s great. We, you, all of us, we don’t “know” if it was a mistake or false advertising. In any case there was only one of the parts that, inadvertently or not, was in the wrong here. Overcharging a lot of people, not only Mr. Edelman, for a long time. Whether you like or dislike Mr. Edelman doesn’t make him less right. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-the-money-its-the-principle-no-its-the-money/706866/76 "2014-12-11T20:10:12Z")
All depends on whether it was an honest restaurant mistake. If yes, then the lawyer’s being unnecessarily harassing. If not, then the restaurant’s wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-the-money-its-the-principle-no-its-the-money/706866/77 "2014-12-11T20:13:48Z")
> [@Sr\_Siete](#): > > Well, you seem to have decided already what happened and what everybody was thinking. And apparently everyone who disagrees with you must be a jerk. That’s great. > > We, you, all of us, we don’t “know” if it was a mistake or false advertising. In any case there was only one of the parts that, inadvertently or not, was in the wrong here. Overcharging a lot of people, not only Mr. Edelman, for a long time. Whether you like or dislike Mr. Edelman doesn’t make him less right. That’s not the way I see it; he was charging his customers what his menu stated, however his website was not updated to reflect the new prices. ---
**Author:** ![Sr\_Siete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@Sr\_Siete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sr_Siete)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-the-money-its-the-principle-no-its-the-money/706866/78 "2014-12-11T20:19:04Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > That’s not the way I see it; he was charging his customers what his menu stated, however his website was not updated to reflect the new prices. And if you have a website where you charge people for your services, it’s your responsibility to clearly state the right amount, because otherwise you are committing fraud. Which, really, is not a joke. If you can’t do that, you shouldn’t have a website. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-the-money-its-the-principle-no-its-the-money/706866/79 "2014-12-11T20:22:20Z")
> [@Sr\_Siete](#): > > Well, you seem to have decided already what happened and what everybody was thinking. And apparently everyone who disagrees with you must be a jerk. That’s great. Yep. It is kinda a pain sometimes being right all the time, but somehow I persevere. > [@Sr.Siete](#): > > We, you, all of us, we don’t “know” if it was a mistake or false advertising. We all draw conclusions based on the evidence. The evidence in this case (the third party hosting of the website, the early attempts to reimburse the Hungry Douchebag, the price was the same for people who used a different menu, and the attempt to update the website) indicate to me it was a mistake. You are free to conclude that the restaurant had, in fact, been engaged in a subtle plan of subterfuge by intentionally listing smaller prices on their website, to secretly steal money from those millions of people who decide where to order Chinese food, not based on delivery area, the taste of the food, or prior visits, but on a price listed on a website. Me, I’ll stick with the evidence and the statements of the restaurant. > [@SrSiete](#): > > Whether you like or dislike Mr. Edelman doesn’t make him less right. Nobody is saying he isn’t correct about being overcharged. However, it is perfectly possible, with me as a stark example, to be both right and a douchbag. Mr. Edelman is a bullying, miser of an asshole, but he was correct that he was overcharged from what he thought the price was. ---
**Author:** ![Sr\_Siete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@Sr\_Siete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sr_Siete)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-the-money-its-the-principle-no-its-the-money/706866/80 "2014-12-11T20:30:03Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Nobody is saying he isn’t correct about being overcharged. However, it is perfectly possible, with me as a stark example, to be both right and a douchbag. Mr. Edelman is a bullying, miser of an asshole, but he was correct that he was overcharged from what he thought the price was. Fair enough. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-the-money-its-the-principle-no-its-the-money/706866.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-the-money-its-the-principle-no-its-the-money/706866.md?page=5)