# It's not the money, it's the principle! No, it's the money **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 10, 2014, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-the-money-its-the-principle-no-its-the-money/706866 "2014-12-10T18:36:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2014, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-the-money-its-the-principle-no-its-the-money/706866/161 "2014-12-13T18:19:24Z")
> [@Doug\_K](#): > > The exchange started out politely. The legal threat wasn’t made until after the owner said he would only refund three dollars. It’s very likely that had he offered a 4 dollar refund from the start it would have been the end of it. > > This seems representative of a problem I have seen with a lot of businesses. If the company makes a mistake they will only correct it if the customer comes back with guns blazing. If the customer makes a polite request for a correction, they (the business) dig their heels in and refuse to budge, knowing that someone who starts out polite is A: more likely to back down at the initial refusal, and B: if they do get angry or more forceful are more likely to “realize” they (the customer) are a “being a jerk” and back down with an apology. > > And they do this because it works, just like it did in this case. The $3 offer was obviously a typo or simple error, I really don’t think he was trying to weasel out an extra dollar. But besides that do you really think this was about $3, $4, or $12 to this Harvard educated lawyer with a PhD in economics? He felt personally angry at what he felt was a misrepresentation of the price and decided to wield his legal prowess and position to make a small business owner cower in fear. And he was succeeding until the small business owner got some legal advice that he was in the clear, even as Edelman upped the ante by hinting at class actions and punitive damages. ---
**Author:** ![Sr\_Siete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@Sr\_Siete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sr_Siete)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2014, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-the-money-its-the-principle-no-its-the-money/706866/162 "2014-12-13T18:28:22Z")
> [@Crazyhorse](#): > > The $3 offer was obviously a typo or simple error, I really don’t think he was trying to weasel out an extra dollar. > > But besides that do you really think this was about $3, $4, or $12 to this Harvard educated lawyer with a PhD in economics? He felt personally angry at what he felt was a misrepresentation of the price and decided to wield his legal prowess and position to make a small business owner cower in fear. And he was succeeding until the small business owner got some legal advice that he was in the clear, even as Edelman upped the ante by hinting at class actions and punitive damages. you do realize that the owner of a chain of restaurants with at least three locations may be several times more rich and powerful than a College professor, do you? That, instead of a case of hubris, Edelman may just be putting into practice what he teaches in his course about combating internet fraud? But again, that would make the recreational outrage less fun, wouldn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2014, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-the-money-its-the-principle-no-its-the-money/706866/163 "2014-12-13T18:42:28Z")
> [@Sr\_Siete](#): > > you do realize that the owner of a chain of restaurants with at least three locations may be several times more rich and powerful than a College professor, do you? That, instead of a case of hubris, Edelman may just be putting into practice what he teaches in his course about combating internet fraud? > > But again, that would make the recreational outrage less fun, wouldn’t it? He could easily make more than most(side note, my dad was kinda pissed when he saw how the local dry cleaner lived) but probably not more than _[this](http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/2014/12/10/who-ben-edelman-sheriff-the-chinese-food-internet/kaHyTBoMJjGkITQDV5uxaN/story.html)_ professor. And remember he is not just a professor, he is an associate professor and probably makes far more money as a lawyer and consultant. ---
**Author:** ![Sr\_Siete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@Sr\_Siete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sr_Siete)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2014, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-the-money-its-the-principle-no-its-the-money/706866/164 "2014-12-13T18:45:08Z")
> [@Mr.Nylock](#): > > He could easily make more than most(side note, my dad was kinda pissed when he saw how the local dry cleaner lived) but probably not more than _[this](http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/2014/12/10/who-ben-edelman-sheriff-the-chinese-food-internet/kaHyTBoMJjGkITQDV5uxaN/story.html)_ professor. > > And remember he is not just a professor, he is an associate professor and probably makes far more money as a lawyer and consultant. Thanks for the correction. Still even in the best of cases, it’s still far from the David vs. Goliath story sold here. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2014, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-the-money-its-the-principle-no-its-the-money/706866/165 "2014-12-13T18:59:16Z")
> [@Doug\_K](#): > > The exchange started out politely. The legal threat wasn’t made until after the owner said he would only refund three dollars. It’s very likely that had he offered a 4 dollar refund from the start it would have been the end of it. Horseshit. The Hungry Douche was looking for a fight and he wasn’t about to let it go. He wanted to whip his legal dick out and pick a fight. He went straight to the law after receiving the first reply email, and he has done this kind of crap before. In that same email, he demanded the treble damages. Edelman wasn’t going to settle for $4, he wanted to feed his ego and be a bully. > [@Doug K.](#): > > This seems representative of a problem I have seen with a lot of businesses. If the company makes a mistake they will only correct it if the customer comes back with guns blazing. If the customer makes a polite request for a correction, they (the business) dig their heels in and refuse to budge, knowing that someone who starts out polite is A: more likely to back down at the initial refusal, and B: if they do get angry or more forceful are more likely to “realize” they (the customer) are a “being a jerk” and back down with an apology. This conclusion is so completely different from my experience. Every single time I’ve complained (granted I don’t do it much) about a difference between a marked price, or about food at a restaurant, every single time they are more than willing to try and make amends. I haven’t tried being a complete douche to them over a minor mistake, though, so I can’t speak to that. I don’t know what kind of companies you complain about and how they handle your problems, but I’ve always found polite is more than successful. Maybe you should shop at better stores. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2014, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-the-money-its-the-principle-no-its-the-money/706866/166 "2014-12-13T19:01:35Z")
> [@Sr\_Siete](#): > > Yes, except in the locations listed in the webpage, which were the Woburn and the Brookline location, which made the outdated menu wrong for at least one of those. **You may realize that if just a location disclaimer allowed you to change your prices at your whim, that would be a gigantic legal pothole for scammers.** (bolding mine) Are you under the impression that there is a law that prevents a restaurant from changing their prices whenever they want, for whatever reason they want? Could you please quote ANY law or regulation that says that? ---
**Author:** ![Sr\_Siete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@Sr\_Siete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sr_Siete)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2014, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-the-money-its-the-principle-no-its-the-money/706866/167 "2014-12-13T19:04:09Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > (bolding mine) > > Are you under the impression that there is a law that prevents a restaurant from changing their prices whenever they want, for whatever reason they want? Could you please quote ANY law or regulation that says that? No. Should there be a law preventing restaurants from advertising menus in a website not reflecting the real prices? If there isn’t any law for that, that’s a terrible oversight. ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5ac83/32.png) [@Doug\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_K)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2014, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-the-money-its-the-principle-no-its-the-money/706866/168 "2014-12-13T20:00:30Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Horseshit. The Hungry Douche was looking for a fight and he wasn’t about to let it go. He wanted to whip his legal dick out and pick a fight. He went straight to the law after receiving the first reply email, and he has done this kind of crap before. In that same email, he demanded the treble damages. Edelman wasn’t going to settle for $4, he wanted to feed his ego and be a bully. Read the first email again. no threat, no demand. He pointed out the discrepancy and gave them the opportunity to correct it on their own. They chose not to. > [@](#): > > This conclusion is so completely different from my experience. Every single time I’ve complained (granted I don’t do it much) about a difference between a marked price, or about food at a restaurant, every single time they are more than willing to try and make amends. I haven’t tried being a complete douche to them over a minor mistake, though, so I can’t speak to that. I don’t know what kind of companies you complain about and how they handle your problems, but I’ve always found polite is more than successful. Maybe you should shop at better stores. That matches most of my experience too. Most restaurants would have immediately corrected the bill or given a refund if it was already paid. This one didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2014, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-the-money-its-the-principle-no-its-the-money/706866/169 "2014-12-13T20:43:04Z")
> [@Sr\_Siete](#): > > No. Should there be a law preventing restaurants from advertising menus in a website not reflecting the real prices? If there isn’t any law for that, that’s a terrible oversight. As I’ve pointed out numerous times now, there is no such law. But let’s return to your assertion about “changing prices on a whim”. Why shouldn’t a business be able to change their prices on a whim? If I sell widgets for $10 each today, why can’t I raise the price to $20 tomorrow? DO you think you should get the $10 price just because that’s what you expect? If I run an ad stating that I’ll sell widgets for $10 and I sell out after two days, why do you think I shouldn’t be able to raise the price when the next shipment, which I recieve on the third day, costs me twice as much as my previous shipment did? There isn’t any law for it because it would be unenforceable and because, in the long run, it’s terrible socio-economic policy. ---
**Author:** ![Sr\_Siete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@Sr\_Siete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sr_Siete)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2014, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-the-money-its-the-principle-no-its-the-money/706866/170 "2014-12-13T20:49:12Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > As I’ve pointed out numerous times now, there is no such law. > > But let’s return to your assertion about “changing prices on a whim”. Why shouldn’t a business be able to change their prices on a whim? > > If I sell widgets for $10 each today, why can’t I raise the price to $20 tomorrow? DO you think you should get the $10 price just because that’s what you expect? > > If I run an ad stating that I’ll sell widgets for $10 and I sell out after two days, why do you think I shouldn’t be able to raise the price when the next shipment, which I recieve on the third day, costs me twice as much as my previous shipment did? > > There isn’t any law for it because it would be unenforceable and because, in the long run, it’s terrible socio-economic policy. Sure. Luckily it’s not at all what I’m talking about. Like, at all. And I mean that I’m very clearly and obviously talking about something so incredibly far away from what you seem to be reading, it’s unbelievable. I’m talking, like I’ve been from the start about false advertising. For which there’s plenty of laws, rules and regulations and whatever you need. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2014, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-the-money-its-the-principle-no-its-the-money/706866/171 "2014-12-13T20:58:10Z")
> [@Sr\_Siete](#): > > Sure. Luckily it’s not at all what I’m talking about. Like, at all. And I mean that I’m very clearly and obviously talking about something so incredibly far away from what you seem to be reading, it’s unbelievable. > > I’m talking, like I’ve been from the start about false advertising. For which there’s plenty of laws, rules and regulations and whatever you need. Then start showing some links to them, or shut the hell up about them. I say that laws that would apply to this situation don’t exist. Prove to me that they do by showing some cites. I have no problem saying I was wrong; I’ve done it before plenty of times and will no doubt do it again. It’s put up or shut up time, in other words. ---
**Author:** ![Sr\_Siete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@Sr\_Siete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sr_Siete)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2014, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-the-money-its-the-principle-no-its-the-money/706866/172 "2014-12-13T21:01:08Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Then start showing some links to them, or shut the hell up about them. I say that laws that would apply to this situation don’t exist. Prove to me that they do by showing some cites. I have no problem saying I was wrong; I’ve done it before plenty of times and will no doubt do it again. It’s put up or shut up time, in other words. Well, there’s a professor in Harvard claiming that… but I guess that’s not expertise enough for you. Am I really supposed to prove to you that there are laws and regulations about false advertising here? Really? ---
**Author:** ![Sr\_Siete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@Sr\_Siete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sr_Siete)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2014, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-the-money-its-the-principle-no-its-the-money/706866/173 "2014-12-13T21:02:37Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > ETA: I quoted you saying that a business should not be able to change their prices on a whim. Would you like to retract that statement and try again to say what you actually mean? Well, yeah, you should read the rest of the post? When I talk about them honoring the prices in a website instead of changing them in a whim? This is getting kinda ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2014, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-the-money-its-the-principle-no-its-the-money/706866/174 "2014-12-13T21:03:23Z")
> [@Sr\_Siete](#): > > Well, yeah, you should read the rest of the post? When I talk about them honoring the prices in a website instead of changing them in a whim? This is getting kinda ridiculous. You’re wrong. You have no basis in fact for anything you’ve written. Cite something or shut the fuck up. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2014, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-the-money-its-the-principle-no-its-the-money/706866/175 "2014-12-13T21:06:07Z")
> [@Sr\_Siete](#): > > Well, there’s a professor in Harvard claiming that… but I guess that’s not expertise enough for you. > > Am I really supposed to prove to you that there are laws and regulations about false advertising here? Really? Yes. Do it. Prove that any law on the books in Massachusetts or at the federal level makes what happened here illegal. You won’t. You won’t because there aren’t any. But you won’t admit you were wrong either., is my guess. You’ll whine and post some more and then say it’s not worth your time to argue with me and you’ll slink away, like the cowardly, ignorant asshole that you really are. ---
**Author:** ![Sr\_Siete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@Sr\_Siete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sr_Siete)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2014, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-the-money-its-the-principle-no-its-the-money/706866/176 "2014-12-13T21:07:55Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > You’re wrong. You have no basis in fact for anything you’ve written. Cite something or shut the fuck up. I’m not. I was talking about the website. You picked a phrase out of context. False advertising exists. False Advertising regulations exist. Do you want me to link you to the FTC website. Fine with me. > **[Truth In Advertising](https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/topics/truth-advertising)** Here. ---
**Author:** ![Sr\_Siete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@Sr\_Siete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sr_Siete)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2014, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-the-money-its-the-principle-no-its-the-money/706866/177 "2014-12-13T21:10:52Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Yes. Do it. Prove that any law on the books in Massachusetts or at the federal level makes what happened here illegal. > > You won’t. You won’t because there aren’t any. But you won’t admit you were wrong either., is my guess. You’ll whine and post some more and then say it’s not worth your time to argue with me and you’ll slink away, like the cowardly, ignorant asshole that you really are. It is absolutely worth my time arguing. I’m not a lawyer. I’m not going to spend hours looking through regulations about web laws. You say that you know for certain somehow that there aren’t regulations about truth in webpages, I absolutely believe you. I really don’t feel there’s any need for that kind of anger. But if there aren’t, there should be. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2014, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-the-money-its-the-principle-no-its-the-money/706866/178 "2014-12-13T21:12:12Z")
> [@Sr\_Siete](#): > > I’m not. I was talking about the website. You picked a phrase out of context. False advertising exists. False Advertising regulations exist. Do you want me to link you to the FTC website. Fine with me. > > [Truth In Advertising | Federal Trade Commission](http://www.ftc.gov/news-events/media-resources/truth-advertising) > > Here. What part of that do you think applies to what happened between Sichuan Garden and Mr. Douchenozzle? None of it does. None of it. You’re wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Nanoda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Nanoda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nanoda)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2014, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-the-money-its-the-principle-no-its-the-money/706866/179 "2014-12-13T21:13:01Z")
Not that this thread needs anything more, but heck, I’ll join the minority agreeing the restaurant owner is shady. > [@AnaMen](#): > > An honest restaurant owner would be upset to learn that the website had incorrect prices and take immediate steps to fix it, thanking the customer who brought it to his/her attention and offering a refund of the overcharge and a something extra for their trouble, like a comped meal. This guy’s “mistakes” are all in his favor, and it has obviously added up to thousands of extra dollars. Completely agree > [@pulykamell](#): > > I feel like this situation could have been nipped in the bud early on. Could have been, if the restaurant owner felt like it. > [@Leaffan](#): > > It’s a few bucks. Because a mom and pop restaurant didn’t update their website. Are you fucking kidding me? It’s a few bucks _per order_ for however long they’ve had their website up. I’ve worked for small companies, and I would have quit the instant any of the owners tried to pull any #$&\*% like that. Websites take seconds to update, and if it was driving any traffic at all (which it clearly was), they should have made sure it matched. They for _damn_ sure should have refunded anyone bringing it up, and changed it right away. 3 emails in is 2 emails too far. ---
**Author:** ![Sr\_Siete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@Sr\_Siete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sr_Siete)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2014, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-the-money-its-the-principle-no-its-the-money/706866/180 "2014-12-13T21:14:49Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > What part of that do you think applies to what happened between Sichuan Garden and Mr. Douchenozzle? > > None of it does. None of it. You’re wrong. The Lanham Act. the regulations of Massachussets BBB… take your pick. Most of these things are on a case to case basis. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-the-money-its-the-principle-no-its-the-money/706866.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-not-the-money-its-the-principle-no-its-the-money/706866.md?page=10)