# Its now time for girls to cover the dating expenses **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 2, 2010, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-now-time-for-girls-to-cover-the-dating-expenses/552448 "2010-09-02T23:50:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2010, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-now-time-for-girls-to-cover-the-dating-expenses/552448/121 "2010-09-04T04:12:35Z")
> [@](#): > > Yes. If I am invited somewhere I go with the tacit assumption that I will be paying my way unless specifically told otherwise. Lets say a friend calls you up and says, “Hey theR, I will be in town for business, would you like to have dinner?”. Would you assume that the friend is offering to pay for your meal? Actually, yes, I would. However, I’d bring more than enough money to pay for my share. I’d expect my friend to word the invitation a bit differently if s/he wanted to go dutch. Frankly, I vastly prefer for each person to pay for his/her own, each time, because I don’t drink very much, while several of my friends can easily down two or three cocktails each time we go out. And that really adds up. However, they don’t just order the cocktails only when someone else is paying…they order the same number if it’s their turn to pay, too. > [@](#): > > Note that this is quite different from teaching him to offer aid to a person (not just a woman) in need of assistance. For example, helping an elderly man down stairs that has no guardrail or opening the door for someone whose arms are full. I open and hold open doors for men and women. That’s just the way we do things around here. And if someone opens or holds a door open for me, then I make sure to thank him or her. If someone drops something, I pick it up for him/her. And when I was steadier on my feet, I frequently offered my arm to elderly women AND men who seemed to need assistance. A couple of the older men said that they rather enjoyed having a pretty woman offer her arm to them. Women used to wear ridiculously confining clothing, and pretty much EVERY woman wore such things. An offer of assistance into and out of carriages wasn’t just courtesy, women frequently DID need that help. And remember, too, that women back then were not supposed to appear to be competent. Acting helpless and flustered was a common way for a woman to flirt. Things have changed. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2010, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-now-time-for-girls-to-cover-the-dating-expenses/552448/122 "2010-09-04T05:16:52Z")
I find that if I let a woman pay for the date that she expects sex and to be in charge in return. Often she does not untie me until it is time to do housework next morning. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2010, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-now-time-for-girls-to-cover-the-dating-expenses/552448/123 "2010-09-04T05:17:33Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > > [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > > > [The point is that paying for dates is a “nice gesture” that is expected from men. It’s sort of like an apology- no meaning when it’s mandated. > > Your analogy makes no sense unless you’re saying that men are mandated to ask women out on dates. It’s to their advantage to do so if they want a girlfriend, but it’s not mandatory in the slightest. I’m trying to picture how for 99% of males, love and partnership would be considered an “extra”. :rolleyes: I agree that it is not a nice gesture if it’s mandated. For example, it’s perfectly as possible for women to ask out men, and pay for the introductory dates…but they don’t as often as males do, why is this? Yes, because it is not societally mandated for women to do so. I think women behave just like men would if they didn’t HAVE to pursue and pay for the first few dates. Of course I did pay for the first few dates and pursue when I was single, but that was because it was societally mandated… I think it would be better for all if there was more equity in dating. And BTW, the best girls I have ever dated have all tried to at least offer to pay part of it politely, before I politely declined. A great girl will demand to treat you back next time. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2010, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-now-time-for-girls-to-cover-the-dating-expenses/552448/124 "2010-09-04T12:07:47Z")
> [@rogerbox](#): > > I’m trying to picture how for 99% of males, love and partnership would be considered an “extra”. :rolleyes: I agree that it is not a nice gesture if it’s mandated. But that’s like saying it’s socially mandated for women to wear makeup and heels, because doing so faciliates their receiving “love and partnership”. If you don’t want to do these so-called meaningless gestures to make yourself more appealing to the opposite sex, you really don’t have to. \*\*Treis/B] isn’t putting himself in the poorhouse by dating and he claims to be doing okay. I guess in a perfect world, men and women would be drawn to each other purely on the basis on what’s inside their souls and hearts, and they wouldn’t have to make any effort to make themselves look attractive. Guys wouldn’t have to spend any money on their dates and women could stop dieting and let their moustaches and leg hair grow out. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2010, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-now-time-for-girls-to-cover-the-dating-expenses/552448/125 "2010-09-04T13:08:42Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > > [@rogerbox](#): > > > > I’m trying to picture how for 99% of males, love and partnership would be considered an “extra”. :rolleyes: I agree that it is not a nice gesture if it’s mandated. > > But that’s like saying it’s socially mandated for women to wear makeup and heels I think she’s getting it. ---
**Author:** ![MegaBee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f0a364/32.png) [@MegaBee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MegaBee)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2010, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-now-time-for-girls-to-cover-the-dating-expenses/552448/126 "2010-09-07T13:16:52Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > > [@MegaBee](#): > > > > Yes, those things are sexist. Generally, if you’re doing something for a woman just because she’s a woman, then you’re behaving in a sexist manner. > > I disagree with this quite vehemently. > > To me, “sexism” is treating women in some way that indicates you regard them as inferior to men. People do things all the time just because the person in question is a woman. Women get call Miz, Miss or Mrs. because they’re women. Boy are taught not to hit girls in the stomach because as females it could cause damage to their ovaries. Men usually do the heavy lifing in the workplace because the women can’t do it. And because women often have what men want, which is attractiveness, sex appeal, or some other quality that makes men want to investigate the possibility of a relationship with them, men are quite naturally going to want to be on their best behavior and do considerate things like holding doors, sending flowers, and letting them off elevators first, and this behavior then tends to spread out and influence the way men treat women in general. > > The notion that there should be absolutely no difference in the way the two sexes interact with or each other is utter nonsense, and flies directly in the face of not only human nature, but human nature as it quite rightly should be. Some elements of human nature, like the urge to steal or commit murder, should be repressed. But we’re talking about holding doors and paying for drinks here, not repressing murderous urges, and the fact that this type of behavior is not only still going on, but appears actually to be happening more and more as the loonacy of early-seventies feminism recedes, shows that this is a type of human behavior that people of both sexes find to be pleasant and mutually beneficial, and I don’t think it’s going away anytime soon. QED ---
**Author:** ![kimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f0a364/32.png) [@kimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kimera)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-now-time-for-girls-to-cover-the-dating-expenses/552448/127 "2010-09-08T23:16:09Z")
I have always acted under the assumption that the person doing the asking pays for the date. I have asked men on dates and I’ve always paid for both meals (unless the man insisted on paying for some). If a friend offers to take me to a meal at a certain place, I’ll assume that they are paying for it, and I’ve yet to be surprised. When I invite friends to certain places, I’ll be the one paying. If it’s a general offer for lunch and we mutually decide together what to do, then we jointly pay. The reasoning behind this is that you never want to ask a person to a restaurant they can’t afford. Also, it’s generally assumed that the one doing the asking is the ‘host’ for the evening and good hosts never ask their guests to contribute unless they are good friends or asking for money is stated up front. When it comes to paying the bill, I’ll always offer to pay half, but if we’re on a date and the man asked me to a certain restaurant, I’d think ill of him if he took me up on my offer provided that I see us going on future dates. If I don’t see any future dates, I’ll insist on paying half. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-now-time-for-girls-to-cover-the-dating-expenses/552448/128 "2010-09-08T23:59:26Z")
> [@Jenaroph](#): > > > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > > > My experience has been that feminism prevails when it benefits the woman (pay rates, job opportunites, etc.), and that ‘sexist’ practices (paying for meals, **opening doors** , etc.) prevail when it benefits the woman. > > > > It’s kind of like that toilet seat thing. > > Your experience could be considered incomplete then; somewhere around here is a rather indignant thread from the last year or two containing a large number of posts from women who do not want doors opened for them. Could you find it, please? I have never in my life heard a woman complain about having the door opened for her, in the same manner it would be opened for for a man. I’ve had men get confused when I opened it for them. I’ve gotten pissed when it’s been slammed in my face, by a man or woman. But this fantasy, this idea that feminism killed not outmoded chivalry but common decency and is a symbol of everything that is wrong and warped with equality, it just kills me. (Was it the thread about the guy who made a big show about helping only the ladies up and down, repeatedly, from some sort of carriage?) I live in the future, apparently, because, with the few straight people I know who date in a traditional manner (inviting a single other person out to dinner or something similar), it is always expected that the asker pays, because they are the ones who have proposed a venue or activity – and they are often a woman. Whether a guy will expect, even feels demeaned for doing so, might be another conversation. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Scrivener](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@The\_Scrivener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Scrivener)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2010, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-now-time-for-girls-to-cover-the-dating-expenses/552448/129 "2010-09-10T00:10:29Z")
FWIW, I’ve been “going Dutch” on dates since I was 13. On those occasions when I didn’t pay my way, it wasn’t for lack of trying. I think most guys are charmed by the gesture or offer and respect the girl or woman making it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-now-time-for-girls-to-cover-the-dating-expenses/552448.md?page=6)