# It's nucular, Lisa: NUCULAR **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 12, 2005, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-nucular-lisa-nucular/289687 "2005-02-12T01:45:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2005, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-nucular-lisa-nucular/289687/141 "2005-04-13T22:41:17Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > No, more precisely, you’re a moron because you keep saying things that reveal that you have zero knowledge of what you’re talking about and yet you continue to think your view somehow has some relevance when compared to the attitudes of linguists (as in, people who are _actually_ experts on language) - who all disagree with you. > If you want me to be nice, read through the thread, and start raising issues that haven’t been raised. Take some time to understand the viewpoint you’re disagreeing with because it gets tiring having to explain the same thing over and over. Well genius, I re-read the entire thread and even followed the “ask a linguist” link that someone cited. You obviously read all their answers right? Because one of them calls nucular a “popular mispronunciation”. Oh you didn’t see that? An expert that agrees with me, the moron? Go fuck yourself. ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2005, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-nucular-lisa-nucular/289687/142 "2005-04-13T22:45:00Z")
Here’s the [cite](http://www.linguistlist.org/~ask-ling/archive-1997.5/msg00286.html) since you must have missed it. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-nucular-lisa-nucular/289687/143 "2005-04-14T01:40:48Z")
> [@BwanaBob](#): > > Well genius, I re-read the entire thread and even followed the “ask a linguist” link that someone cited. You obviously read all their answers right? Because one of them calls nucular a “popular mispronunciation”. Oh you didn’t see that? An expert that agrees with me, the moron? Go fuck yourself. Nice selective quoting! She calls it “a popular mispronunciation (relative to the dictionary pronunciation, and probably that of the majority of native speakers).” Do you read much? Because that’s not exactly strong support for your point, fucktard. (Not to mention that there’s nothing to indicate that she’s any more than a subscriber to a mailing list . . . and contrast what she says with what the other replies say.) Finding one possible expert who maybe sorta agrees with you is not an achievement. I’m sorry if this upsets you, but linguistics does not support the kind of judgmentalism you wish to apply to language. In fact, it constantly finds more reasons to oppose it. If you’d like to put together a response that somehow establishes some set of criteria for determining what the “correct” pronunciation of a word is, be my guest. Unless you’re even stupider than I’ve come to think, you can see the problem with people declaring something “correct” or “incorrect” and not providing any reasons. Sit and think for a moment about that - what does correct or incorrect mean? It’s not like math. Math is pretty clear-cut that way; if the equation doesn’t balance or the proof contains a hole, then it’s not correct. But there is no such natural standard for language, so if you want to use a word like “correct” you have to come up with a meaning for it. I’m sorry that you wish to cling to some dogmatic view of language use you picked up in schools; I think the way English is taught is quite poor. But you’ll need to do better than “It’s just wrong!” Since there’s no central authority to appeal to, and nothing about the pronunciation “nucular” to cause any sort of problem of misinterpretation or confusion, there’s simply nothing that springs to mind to legitimize one pronunciation and condemn another. What’s to be gained from judging people by the way they pronounce “nuclear”, anyway? You’ve already provided the example of your brother, who you apparently don’t think is lazy or uneducated. Your prejudice regarding the pronunciation of this word would lead you astray in that example. So what’s to be gained from it? ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-nucular-lisa-nucular/289687/144 "2005-04-14T02:01:20Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > Y’know, arguing with folks defending your position sort of feels like arguing with a Creationist. Think about that, and understand why it leads to mockery sometimes. That comes close to offending me. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-nucular-lisa-nucular/289687/145 "2005-04-14T02:31:50Z")
> [@Ellis Dee](#): > > That comes close to offending me. Why–because you think language has right and wrong pronunciations, or because you’re a creationist? Either way, the analogy holds: on one side are people who take a stand because of some moral impulse, and on the other side are people who take a stand because scientific fact and logic support them. In either case, the two sides end up talking past each other, because one side isn’t particularly swayed by the argument that it’d be cool if it worked this way, and the other side isn’t swayed by the argument that it _does_ work this way. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-nucular-lisa-nucular/289687/146 "2005-04-14T02:39:54Z")
> [@Polerius](#): > > Hmmm, I didn’t mean to pick a word that was a food item, and thus could be confused with water. I was just trying to pick a sound that was very dissimilar to water. Let’s use “packle” then. > > In any case, you seem not to have a problem with people pronouncing “water” as “packle” (while still spelling it “water”), which is fine. You have a consistent rule which reflects your preferences. I’ve also not got a problem with people pronouncing “Paris” as “Pair-iss” instead of “Pair-ee.” Indeed, in that population which has changed the city’s pronunciation (while keeping the spelling), I find it annoying and pretentious when people pronounce it as “Pair-ee.” Pronunciations change all the time while the spelling remains the same. Keep in mind that I think the example is silly: the example you gave doesn’t demonstrate how pronunciation shifts. Admittedly, it’s an “extreme” example, which really means that it’s an example that has little to do with the real world. And the way language works in the real world is what concerns me. > [@](#): > > Personally, I wouldn’t be fine with people spelling the word “water” but pronouncing it “packle”. If they want to pronounce it “packle” they should just spell it that way. Why? Because it’ll help them communicate better? If that’s all you’re saying, then I provisionally agree with you (with the stipulation that they _want_ to communicate with the rest of us). But if you’re saying that there’s any other reason why they should spell it “packle,” you’ll need to explain. Again, this is what’s frustrating: y’all aren’t explaining WHY things should be the way you say they should be. You’re just repeating the assertion. > [@](#): > > Similarly, if people want to say nucular, spell it “nucular”, not “nuclear”. Then we would just have two words describing the same thing. Here you run into problems. I have yet to meet anyone who doesn’t understand either pronunciation of the word. All I’ve met is people who get in a tizzy when someone uses the pronunciation they don’t like. So, if you know that your intended audience is anal on this issue, and it’s important to you for their obsessive elitism not to get in the way of your communication, then it’d behoove you to pronounce it however they’d prefer (which, for a military elitist audience, would probably be “nukular,” and for a civilian elitist audience, would probably be “new-clee-ur”). But if you figure it’s their problem, they’ll understand you however you say it, then say it however you’d like. Again, the water–\>packle shift runs into the problem of reducing your ability to communicate with other people. The new-clee-ur–\>new-kew-lur shift doesn’t run into that problem, except with specific audiences who deliberately make it a problem. Daniel [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-nucular-lisa-nucular/289687.md?page=7)