# It's official: Hillary lost MI, PA, WI by less than the Jill Stein vote in those states **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 13, 2016, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-hillary-lost-mi-pa-wi-by-less-than-the-jill-stein-vote-in-those-states/774628 "2016-12-13T18:26:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2016, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-hillary-lost-mi-pa-wi-by-less-than-the-jill-stein-vote-in-those-states/774628/181 "2016-12-17T16:59:43Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > You should take away that compromising on _that_ issue will give you the chance to win on “everything else” – and that you seem willing to overlook “everything else” for the sake of backing a candidate who rubs those single-issue voters the wrong way. No kidding. Why don’t the Dem’s understand they need to probably STFU about gun’s and abortion whenever possible? And the Republicans too for that matter. They both think they are energizing their base. But IMO that’s some fucked up thinking. IMO they are probably energizing the base/single issue/extremeist on the other team more to vote for their person to keep the even worse person from getting control. ---
**Author:** ![Translucent\_Daydream](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/translucent_daydream/32/16170_2.png) [@Translucent\_Daydream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Translucent_Daydream)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-hillary-lost-mi-pa-wi-by-less-than-the-jill-stein-vote-in-those-states/774628/182 "2016-12-18T17:42:43Z")
So the cliffs notes version of what I’m reading here is people chose to throw away my wife’s health care and access to a medically necessary abortion for… guns? ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-hillary-lost-mi-pa-wi-by-less-than-the-jill-stein-vote-in-those-states/774628/183 "2016-12-18T17:56:40Z")
> [@Translucent\_Daydream](#): > > So the cliffs notes version of what I’m reading here is people chose to throw away my wife’s health care and access to a medically necessary abortion for… guns? Well yes and no. Hillary choose to make guns a bigger issue than it needed to be…so she could out liberal Bernie…so she could be the nominee rather than Bernie…but that pissed off a bunch of gun nuts on the Republican side who made sure to vote against Hillary because of her stance on guns… And that made Trump win. Thanks Hillary! ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-hillary-lost-mi-pa-wi-by-less-than-the-jill-stein-vote-in-those-states/774628/184 "2016-12-18T17:56:47Z")
And the lesson here for Dems ought to be: stop nominating anti-gun candidates. ---
**Author:** ![Translucent\_Daydream](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/translucent_daydream/32/16170_2.png) [@Translucent\_Daydream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Translucent_Daydream)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-hillary-lost-mi-pa-wi-by-less-than-the-jill-stein-vote-in-those-states/774628/185 "2016-12-18T18:10:54Z")
I grew up in an east Texas town of 600. Everyone had guns. And nobody cared. I don’t understand why people are so obsessed with them now. I just don’t. We had mandatory firearms training in high school (rifles.) It scares me that people put guns on such a pedestal. They were just tools for us. I graduated when Clinton was President if that puts it into a time frame context for you. One of my best friend’s mother was shot in the face and killed in our home town. The shooter guy ran off and was caught in Tennessee. He was found to have obtained the gun illegally (he was a felon and stole the gun from a neighbor.) We all agreed that he shouldn’t have had a gun. I dunno what the rile up about fucking guns and gun control is all of a sudden. I just don’t get it. Statistically I should be very pro-gun and vote Republican but I don’t and many of the people in my little tiny East Texas town aren’t that way. It just seems to me that the gun control and a gun conversation in general has been hijacked by somebody else that seems to be speaking for my people. I don’t remember this gun control issue ever being such a serious thing. It seems to me like a distraction from the bigger issue. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-hillary-lost-mi-pa-wi-by-less-than-the-jill-stein-vote-in-those-states/774628/186 "2016-12-19T16:13:00Z")
> [@Translucent\_Daydream](#): > > So the cliffs notes version of what I’m reading here is people chose to throw away my wife’s health care and access to a medically necessary abortion for… guns? They probably don’t know your wife. Has your healthcare changed? Do you have a need to legally murder an unborn child? There are so many unanswered questions. While the voters were waiting for you to explain your positions to them, they just went ahead and voted according to their own wants and needs. Sometimes, just sometimes, people can seem so selfish when they chose to vote for their own best interests. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-hillary-lost-mi-pa-wi-by-less-than-the-jill-stein-vote-in-those-states/774628/187 "2016-12-19T16:20:52Z")
> [@Translucent\_Daydream](#): > > I grew up in an east Texas town of 600. Everyone had guns. And nobody cared. > > … > > It just seems to me that the gun control and a gun conversation in general has been hijacked by somebody else that seems to be speaking for my people. If you think of “your people” as non-college-educated whites, particularly rural whites, then they spoke pretty clearly for themselves this election. ---
**Author:** ![Translucent\_Daydream](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/translucent_daydream/32/16170_2.png) [@Translucent\_Daydream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Translucent_Daydream)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-hillary-lost-mi-pa-wi-by-less-than-the-jill-stein-vote-in-those-states/774628/188 "2016-12-19T16:28:21Z")
Legally murder an unborn child? Wow. I don’t even know how to respond to that. Damn the SDMB has changed. My concern is a little more complicated than my innate urges to murder babies. I’m more concerned with the baby of the damned killing my wife. Look up entopic pregnancy. These babies do a great job killing themselves in the name of Satan on their own without needing any unholy help from my abortionist on speed dial. And as far as we know, it’s looking like the funds to pay for my health insurance are going to dry up about two months after the repeal of the ACA. I’m on the Medicare expansion that will be unfunded. My state is working on a solution to fill the gap to keep us insured but so far there isn’t a plan according to my insurer’s telephone help desk. I’m in the appeals process of trying to get the snip before time runs out on the insursce but they don’t wanna do it because I haven’t had any natural god approved babies yet. Maybe I should just get a gun and shoot my wife in the Holy place where the murderous Satan baby lives? America! Health insurance from Glock. ---
**Author:** ![Translucent\_Daydream](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/translucent_daydream/32/16170_2.png) [@Translucent\_Daydream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Translucent_Daydream)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-hillary-lost-mi-pa-wi-by-less-than-the-jill-stein-vote-in-those-states/774628/189 "2016-12-19T16:29:30Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > If you think of “your people” as non-college-educated whites, particularly rural whites, then they spoke pretty clearly for themselves this election. An informal Facebook poll put most of them in the Johnson camp. ---
**Author:** ![HumbleThinker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/5daacb/32.png) [@HumbleThinker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HumbleThinker)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-hillary-lost-mi-pa-wi-by-less-than-the-jill-stein-vote-in-those-states/774628/190 "2016-12-19T16:36:18Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > I won’t go so far as to say that Jill Stein put Trump in the White House, because absent her and her party’s name on the ballot, who knows how many of her voters would have voted for Hillary, how many would have stayed home, or how many would have voted for someone else. > > But still, JFTR, since the totals from those three key states [are now official](http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/tuesdays-campaign-round-121316): > > PA: Hillary lost by 44,292 votes, Stein got 49,941 votes. > > WI: Hillary lost by 22,177 votes, Stein got 31,006. > > MI: Hillary lost by 10,704 votes, Stein got 51,463. It’s similar to how, in close sporting events, infinitely more emphasis is put on the last play(s) of the game as opposed to all of the other plays that resulted in the game being so close as to supposedly hinge on a single play. It’s a matter of subconcious misconception that we perceive things this way. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-hillary-lost-mi-pa-wi-by-less-than-the-jill-stein-vote-in-those-states/774628/191 "2016-12-19T16:37:15Z")
> [@Translucent\_Daydream](#): > > Legally murder an unborn child? > > Wow. > > I don’t even know how to respond to that. Damn the SDMB has changed. > > My concern is a little more complicated than my innate urges to murder babies. I’m more concerned with the baby of the damned killing my wife. Look up entopic pregnancy. These babies do a great job killing themselves in the name of Satan on their own without needing any unholy help from my abortionist on speed dial. > > And as far as we know, it’s looking like the funds to pay for my health insurance are going to dry up about two months after the repeal of the ACA. I’m on the Medicare expansion that will be unfunded. My state is working on a solution to fill the gap to keep us insured but so far there isn’t a plan according to my insurer’s telephone help desk. I’m in the appeals process of trying to get the snip before time runs out on the insursce but they don’t wanna do it because I haven’t had any natural god approved babies yet. > > Maybe I should just get a gun and shoot my wife in the Holy place where the murderous Satan baby lives? America! Health insurance from Glock. You are free to make your own decisions but if you follow thru on your, uhm… suggestions, you won’t be free for long. There are laws against what you are suggesting. What is the bill number of the law that is going to dry up the funds to pay for your health insurance? What is the bill number of the law that will repeal ACA? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-hillary-lost-mi-pa-wi-by-less-than-the-jill-stein-vote-in-those-states/774628/192 "2016-12-19T16:40:45Z")
> [@Translucent\_Daydream](#): > > An informal Facebook poll put most of them in the Johnson camp. “An informal FACEBOOK poll”? Really? Currently, the professional pollster’s results has proven to be untrustworthy, but you’re relying on an informal facebook poll. That’s amazing. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-hillary-lost-mi-pa-wi-by-less-than-the-jill-stein-vote-in-those-states/774628/193 "2016-12-19T16:43:19Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > You are free to make your own decisions but if you follow thru on your, uhm… suggestions, you won’t be free for long. There are laws against what you are suggesting. > > What is the bill number of the law that is going to dry up the funds to pay for your health insurance? > > What is the bill number of the law that will repeal ACA? There isn’t a bill number because the new session hasn’t started yet. It’s perfectly reasonable to fear that the people elected will do what they’ve been promising to do for years. They’ve pantomimed repealing the ACA over 50 times. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-hillary-lost-mi-pa-wi-by-less-than-the-jill-stein-vote-in-those-states/774628/194 "2016-12-19T16:45:59Z")
I didn’t get to keep my healthcare plan either. It’ll be ok though. We muddle through. ---
**Author:** ![Translucent\_Daydream](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/translucent_daydream/32/16170_2.png) [@Translucent\_Daydream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Translucent_Daydream)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-hillary-lost-mi-pa-wi-by-less-than-the-jill-stein-vote-in-those-states/774628/195 "2016-12-19T16:46:48Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > “An informal FACEBOOK poll”? Really? Currently, the professional pollster’s results has proven to be untrustworthy, but you’re relying on an informal facebook poll. That’s amazing. I don’t even know how to respond to you man. Your mouth seems a little too foamy and frothy at this point for any serious discussion. You win man. It’s all you. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-hillary-lost-mi-pa-wi-by-less-than-the-jill-stein-vote-in-those-states/774628/196 "2016-12-19T16:47:55Z")
> [@HumbleThinker](#): > > It’s similar to how, in close sporting events, infinitely more emphasis is put on the last play(s) of the game as opposed to all of the other plays that resulted in the game being so close as to supposedly hinge on a single play. It’s a matter of subconcious misconception that we perceive things this way. Hey, I’m NOT French…but yeah lots of people think that way. Hillary barely lost. Hillary did plenty of stupid shit. Not just pick A or B not being sure which would bite you in the ass more or less than the other. Stuff that was just freaking stupid with no upside. Hillary is as much to blame for the loss as any other trivial thing she could not control that put Trump over the edge. And don’t get me wrong. If Trump barely lost. Hell if Trump crashed and burned like like Hitler trying to get elected POTUS in 1950. I’d be pointing out a dozen, if not dozens of “that was serioulsy some stupid assed shit that cost you the electgion”. ---
**Author:** ![HumbleThinker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/5daacb/32.png) [@HumbleThinker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HumbleThinker)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-hillary-lost-mi-pa-wi-by-less-than-the-jill-stein-vote-in-those-states/774628/197 "2016-12-19T17:14:35Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Hey, I’m NOT French…but yeah lots of people think that way. > > Hillary barely lost. > > Hillary did plenty of stupid shit. Not just pick A or B not being sure which would bite you in the ass more or less than the other. Stuff that was just freaking stupid with no upside. > > Hillary is as much to blame for the loss as any other trivial thing she could not control that put Trump over the edge. > > And don’t get me wrong. If Trump barely lost. Hell if Trump crashed and burned like like Hitler trying to get elected POTUS in 1950. I’d be pointing out a dozen, if not dozens of “that was serioulsy some stupid assed shit that cost you the electgion”. Oh yeah, plenty of candidates did things that could have potentially cost them the election. That’s simply inevitable given the 18+ month election cycle for president. But barring a third party surge, the mistakes were only going to actually cost one of them the election. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-hillary-lost-mi-pa-wi-by-less-than-the-jill-stein-vote-in-those-states/774628/198 "2016-12-19T17:30:51Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > They probably don’t know your wife. Has your healthcare changed? Do you have a need to legally murder an unborn child? There are so many unanswered questions. Can we not make “legally murder an unborn child” a thing? First off, it’s definitionally incorrect because murder is illegal. Second, it’s really unnecessarily inflammatory. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Translucent\_Daydream](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/translucent_daydream/32/16170_2.png) [@Translucent\_Daydream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Translucent_Daydream)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-hillary-lost-mi-pa-wi-by-less-than-the-jill-stein-vote-in-those-states/774628/199 "2016-12-19T17:59:11Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Can we not make “legally murder an unborn child” a thing? First off, it’s definitionally incorrect because murder is illegal. Second, it’s really unnecessarily inflammatory. > > [/moderating] I didn’t flag that post, but Thank you for that. FTR I’m no fan of abortion. But I’m not a huge fan of guns, although I don’t feel like either should be illegal. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-hillary-lost-mi-pa-wi-by-less-than-the-jill-stein-vote-in-those-states/774628/200 "2016-12-19T18:16:45Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I didn’t get to keep my healthcare plan either. It’ll be ok though. We muddle through. You know, I realize this is a joke, but for many people, in particular the person you’re responding to, it really isn’t very funny. Not being able to keep your catastrophe-level health insurance that covers next to nothing is not the same thing as not being able to get health insurance. It’s kind of a dick move. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-hillary-lost-mi-pa-wi-by-less-than-the-jill-stein-vote-in-those-states/774628.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-hillary-lost-mi-pa-wi-by-less-than-the-jill-stein-vote-in-those-states/774628.md?page=11)