# It's official now - the election is fraudulent **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 8, 2000, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-now-the-election-is-fraudulent/40352 "2000-11-08T19:31:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Danielinthewolvesden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce7236/32.png) [@Danielinthewolvesden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danielinthewolvesden)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2000, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-now-the-election-is-fraudulent/40352/21 "2000-11-08T20:41:51Z")
Nor,ally I would say- who cares? It is only maybe a 1000 votes, in just one state. But in this case, those 1000 votes are in the one state that will decide the election. Jeeez. So much for the Bush “landslide” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2000, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-now-the-election-is-fraudulent/40352/22 "2000-11-08T20:47:31Z")
Let me clarify something a bit. I’m not being flippant about nullifying the FL votes. And yes, I know that that cannot be legally done. I worry greatly about the cloud of suspicion that will hang over Gore or Bush when they are elected. I worry how disruptive this will be to our country and the legislative process. IMO, this could be more disruptive than Iran-Contra and the Clinton impeachment **combined**. So I made my statement based on a desire to avoid this sort of political strife. That’s all. And note - I would even take a more honest or less suspicious Gore win over a less honest or more suspicious Bush win, _should that be the case_. ---
**Author:** ![jazzmine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jazzmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jazzmine)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2000, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-now-the-election-is-fraudulent/40352/23 "2000-11-08T20:50:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Shayna \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > [CNN.com](http://CNN.com) says the box was filled with supplies not votes. > > Can you provide a link, please? I’ve been reading [CNN.com](http://CNN.com) all day and I can’t find any reference to there being supplies in that box. Thanks. \*\* Sorry, front page. That’s what I meant by [cnn.com](http://cnn.com). So, [http://www.cnn.com](http://www.cnn.com) ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2000, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-now-the-election-is-fraudulent/40352/24 "2000-11-08T20:54:37Z")
The CNN story on the found ballot box was just updated at 3:43 EST. The story now says there were no votes in the box. The link: [http://www.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/11/08/ballotbox.found/](http://www.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/11/08/ballotbox.found/) ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2000, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-now-the-election-is-fraudulent/40352/25 "2000-11-08T20:55:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SuaSponte \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by waterj2 \* > > [snip] I guarantee the next presidential election there will be new procedures and safeguards. > > Sadly, there won’t be. Stuff like this has been going on for centuries. Heck, most historians agree that JFK wouldn’t have been president but for a decision by Mayor Daley in Chicago that the most efficient counters for ballots from Republican wards were the fish in the Chicago River 😉 > > Sua \*\* Hey, I said I was guaranteeing it, and I stick by that. If you are unsatisfied with the veracity of the next election, I will refund you the expense of your vote. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2000, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-now-the-election-is-fraudulent/40352/26 "2000-11-08T21:12:16Z")
> [@](#): > > Heck, most historians agree that JFK wouldn’t have been president but for a decision by Mayor Daley in Chicago that the most efficient counters for ballots from Republican wards were the fish in the Chicago River. **If** that were true, then most historians would be either idiots, or, at least, seriously challenged in arithmetic. Kennedy got 303 electoral votes Nixon got 219 electoral votes Harry Byrd got 15 electoral votes. Illinois simply did not have enough votes (then or ever) to overcome Nixon’s 84 vote deficit. Illinois _may_ have been stolen by the Democrats (although there was a lot of fraud in the Republican precints away from Chicago, as well), but Illinois could have been won by Nixon and JFK would have still taken the presidency. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2000, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-now-the-election-is-fraudulent/40352/27 "2000-11-08T21:19:33Z")
Hmmm…I believe Kennedy did somehow buy votes, didn’t he? ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2000, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-now-the-election-is-fraudulent/40352/28 "2000-11-08T21:22:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Anthracite \* > **So I made my statement based on a desire to avoid this sort of political strife. That’s all.** Again I put on my Old Fart hat and say sagely, We’d get over it. Or, everybody except the most vocal opponents of Mr Gore would, and as we’ve seen in some of the threads today those people aren’t even happy or nice when they WIN! ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2000, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-now-the-election-is-fraudulent/40352/29 "2000-11-08T21:34:57Z")
> [@](#): > > I believe Kennedy did somehow buy votes, didn’t he? It’s possible, although most of the fraud I have seen claimed for the 1960 election is generally attributed to old-line Democratic bosses doing a favor for the party rather than Kennedy actually initiating a buy. Cecil has noted that the Illinois fraud (which features prominently, if stupidly, in several Kennedy assassination conspiracy theories) was pretty blatant–but that it was matched by a lot of stolen or bought votes by the Republicans out in the Illinois hinterlands. Regardless, the old story that Kennedy was given the election because Daley’s theft was better than the Republican theft in Illinois, shatters on the noteworthy point that JFK won _without needing_ Illinois. ---
**Author:** ![hansel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6bbea6/32.png) [@hansel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hansel)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2000, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-now-the-election-is-fraudulent/40352/30 "2000-11-08T21:42:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > \*\*Hmmm…I believe Kennedy did somehow buy votes, didn’t he? > \*\* It was never proven, despite lengthy investigations by the Republican party that were eventually shut down by federal judges who said that there was no evidence. ---
**Author:** ![oldscratch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ed655f/32.png) [@oldscratch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oldscratch)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2000, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-now-the-election-is-fraudulent/40352/31 "2000-11-08T21:51:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Alphagene \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Connor \* > > **Robots. We need some fucking robots.** > > Nah, they’d be biased toward Gore. \*\* haahhaahaha bwahaha Funniest election humor I’ve seen all day. Alphagene, I dub thee, king of Gore/Robot humor. ---
**Author:** ![Milossarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Milossarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Milossarian)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2000, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-now-the-election-is-fraudulent/40352/32 "2000-11-08T22:29:05Z")
No, it’s not the least bit official that the election is fraudulent. In fact, as mentioned in the last few posts, the voting-box-in-the-church has been debunked. If the past 24 hours or so have taught us anything, it’s not to believe what the major media are saying until it is absolutely, unequivocably proven true. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2000, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-now-the-election-is-fraudulent/40352/33 "2000-11-08T22:42:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Milossarian \* > \*\*No, it’s not the least bit official that the election is fraudulent. In fact, as mentioned in the last few posts, the voting-box-in-the-church has been debunked. > > If the past 24 hours or so have taught us anything, it’s not to believe what the major media are saying until it is absolutely, unequivocably proven true. \*\* I knew all of that, **Milo**. You are quite correct. I’m hardly the first person guilty of using a provacative thread title in the Pit though… ---
**Author:** ![Zarathustra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/898d66/32.png) [@Zarathustra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zarathustra)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2000, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-now-the-election-is-fraudulent/40352/34 "2000-11-10T02:20:34Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m not being flippant about nullifying the FL votes. And yes, I know that that cannot be legally done. > > I worry greatly about the cloud of suspicion that will hang over Gore or Bush when they are elected. I worry how disruptive this will be to our country and the legislative process. IMO, this could be more disruptive than Iran-Contra and the Clinton impeachment combined. So I made my statement based on a desire to avoid this sort of political strife. That’s all. Bear in mind that if the Florida vote were somehow nullified, neither Bush nor Gore would obtain a majority of electoral votes, and the next president would be chosen by the House of Representatives. Only people happy then would be the news channels. Zarathustra ---
**Author:** ![Myrr21](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Myrr21](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Myrr21)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2000, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-now-the-election-is-fraudulent/40352/35 "2000-11-10T03:12:06Z")
Of course, there is precedence for electoral votes from a state not being counted if the elector dies before the vote, or is unable to attend for any other reason. So if we just kill off the FL electors from both parties…_poof_ Problem solved 🙂 Well, I guess that would be a _bad_ idea, but whatever… ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2000, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-now-the-election-is-fraudulent/40352/36 "2000-11-10T04:15:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Zarathustra \* > **Bear in mind that if the Florida vote were somehow nullified, neither Bush nor Gore would obtain a majority of electoral votes, and the next president would be chosen by the House of Representatives. Only people happy then would be the news channels.** Oh yeah, I forgot about that. D’oh! ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2000, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-now-the-election-is-fraudulent/40352/37 "2000-11-10T14:58:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\* > Bear in mind that if the Florida vote were somehow nullified, neither Bush nor Gore would obtain a majority of electoral votes, and the next president would be chosen by the House of Representatives. Only people happy then would be the news channels. > \*\* No, no, no. If there are no Florida electors, then Al Gore is elected President. From the Constitution, Amendment XII: “The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted;–the person having the greatest number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of electors appointed…” If no electors from Florida are appointed, then there are only 513 electors. Gore would have a majority of that, presuming his 260 electoral votes stand up (whether or not they would is a different question.) What is equally clear, though, is that there isn’t any provision for Florida to NOT appoint electors. According to Amendment XII, every state has to come up with them. I do NOT believe that disallowing Florida from the electoral college is constitutionally possible. One way or another, 25 electors from Florida must vote. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-now-the-election-is-fraudulent/40352.md?page=1)