# It's official: Obama isn't taking the ebola threat seriously. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 17, 2014, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-obama-isnt-taking-the-ebola-threat-seriously/701589 "2014-10-17T15:35:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2014, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-obama-isnt-taking-the-ebola-threat-seriously/701589/161 "2014-10-28T01:59:22Z")
We’ve been studying Ebola for 38 years. If there was an unexpected mode of transmission, we would have noticed. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2014, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-obama-isnt-taking-the-ebola-threat-seriously/701589/162 "2014-10-28T02:17:44Z")
> [@Count\_Blucher](#): > > I’ll ask: if anyone thinks the situation is REALLY all that serious, then is the US the wrong country for you??? > Remember, your tax dollars (going forward) might be spendable on any country on the planet. Get Thee Shoppin’…! > > (I hear that Price-Line gives great deals on flights too.) Which President do you support? The one who doesn’t want people in quarantine. The one who wants people in quarantine. Which CDC do you support? The one that says 99.6 is OK to travel. The one that says it was a bad idea to travel. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2014, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-obama-isnt-taking-the-ebola-threat-seriously/701589/163 "2014-10-28T03:13:12Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Do you really think a virus lays dormant until body temperature rises like some kind of jack-in-the-box? Where is it hiding during this transition? Do you think everybody reacts the same? Don’t ask me; I’m not a doctor. I’m asking you: where, exactly, did you get your information? What is the basis for what you are saying? Be specific. Just asking, “How do we know it isn’t” is a very poor basis for knowledge. (How do I know you aren’t an enemy agent provocateur trying to raise the level of panic in the U.S.?) ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2014, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-obama-isnt-taking-the-ebola-threat-seriously/701589/164 "2014-10-28T11:10:28Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Do you really think a virus lays dormant until body temperature rises like some kind of jack-in-the-box? No, I think that a person’s temperature won’t rise until there’s a certain amount of Ebolavirus in their body, and that person is only contagious when there’s that level or more of the virus in their body. > [@](#): > > Where is it hiding during this transition? It’s not hiding, it literally doesn’t exist yet. Viruses breed in the human body, and until a certain amount of Ebolavirus has bred, the host is neither symptomatic nor contagious. > [@](#): > > Do you think everybody reacts the same? I think there’s a predictable pattern that Ebola infection follows, and that everyone reacts to infection within certain well-known bounds. > [@](#): > > It’s clearly a very dangerous virus capable of rapidly infecting a population and it’s being treated as such when someone has it. Cite for it rapidly infecting a population? It’s infected less than 15,000 people _ever_, and the current outbreak has infected maybe 10,000 people in 8 months or so, and is spreading at a predictable, slow, rate in Liberia and Sierra Leone of roughly 2 new infections per infected person, over 3 weeks. In countries where it’s being treated properly - such as Nigeria, Guinea, Mali, Spain, the US, the UK, any outbreaks have either been controlled, are clearly under control, or never happened in the first place due to good practice. The last is for the UK, where there’s been at least one person treated for the disease without anyone catching it. But then, you seem to think HIV is easy to catch and spreads quickly, so you obviously don’t have any idea how viruses actually work. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2014, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-obama-isnt-taking-the-ebola-threat-seriously/701589/165 "2014-10-28T11:12:08Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > This is simplistic nonsense. 6am no fever, noon, fever/infectious. According to you the person is not infectious at 6am. In reality someone could go jogging and work up a sweat and pass off the virus prior to outward signs. No, “working up a sweat jogging” is NOT a fever. Yes, your temp goes up but it’s not in response to illness, it’s because your muscles are generating more heat than your skin can radiate quickly. It is not until you actually _get sick_ that you’re contagious, based on several decades of actual research by actual medical researcher, and study of outbreaks in the wild, and the fever is not a slight elevation such as you get from exercise it’s a rapidly rising fever that get dangerously high. > [@](#): > > I got a long list of friends who suffer from fatique, joint and muscle pain. It’s called getting older. Please. This is extensive, sudden, and sever pain that didn’t exist a week or two before, not the gradual degradation of joints and muscles that occurs over decades. > [@](#): > > [According to the nurse](http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/221905-er-nurse-duncan-lied-about-exposure-to-ebola) who dealt with him he lied about his contacts. Quote: “I explained to him, ‘We are under the impression that you may have been exposed to Ebola.’ And I said, ‘Where are you from?’ And he told me Liberia,” she said. _As I said_, he was truthful about where he had been. > [@](#): > > “And I asked ‘Have you been in contact with anyone who’s been sick?’ ” > “No. He said no,” Rose said. And Duncan’s buddies back in Liberia have said that the pregnant woman he assisted was believed to be having problems related to her pregnancy and nobody know _at that time_ that she had Ebola. So Duncan honestly didn’t know he’d been exposed. Who do we believe? Duncan’s friends and relatives who might well be biased or a nurse in Dallas who is probably trying to cover her ass? Why should I believe Sidia Rose over Thomas Duncan? Or Thomas Duncan over Sidia Rose? I don’t know anything about either of those people except what’s been reported in the media which isn’t really that much at all. Regardless of whether he knew or not he’d been exposed, regardless of what he said, an adult with a 103 fever (which is what he had) is deadly serious and they probably should have admitted him just for _that_ - except of course he’s poor, uninsured, foreign, and dark skinned (pick one or several). I firmly believe that if someone with insurance had shown up with that symptom he would have been admitted but because we have a two-tier medical system in the country that treats people without insurance as disposable trash he was sent home. But hey, keep blaming the dead guy, he can’t complain or defend himself. > [@](#): > > [Liberia](http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/10/02/liberia-ebola-patient-thomas-duncan-airport-screening/16591753/)said he lied on his exit documents and threatened to arrest him. He did just exactly what people do, he lied about his situation. Again, people don’t act according to your standards of behavior. Again, let’s blame the dead guy and cover our asses. On the one hand you say governments are lying about Ebola and can’t be trusted, then you turn around and say because a government says something it should be trusted. Why should I trust any party involved in this? Maybe Duncan lied - but apparently there’s some question whether he did or not, and scared people looking for a scapegoat are conflating what he said at an airport with what he said at a hospital. As you continually do. Duncan was entirely truthful about where he had been recently when asked. That combined with a high fever should have made the hospital suspicious and investigate further _whether or not he had a known contact_. If he had been brought in unconscious with a 103 degree fever and a recent history of being in Liberia they should have just shrugged and said well, we can’t ask him if he’s had contact with an Ebola patient so we should assume he hasn’t - or should they think well, maybe he did whether or not anyone knows about it. > [@](#): > > In the age of the internet all of this information is available. You were wrong about children not getting it. they have the same rate of infection as the men. You are making me quite angry. I did not say “men”, I said ADULTS. Or don’t you think women exist? ADULTS. Stop twisting what I say, it’s dishonest and really, anyone who cares to read this thread can go back and actually read the posts in question so I’m baffled why you think that’s an effective tactic or why you think you can get away with it. > [@](#): > > you were wrong about it only be infectious when people show symptoms. It can be in semen or sweat. No, actually, until someone is _actually sick_ their sweat not contagious. Someone infected does not become instantly contagious, this is not World War Z. It shows up in semen AFTER someone has been sick, that is, shown symptoms. This is NOT the zombie apocalypse you are looking for. > [@](#): > > You were wrong about Duncan lying. He lied to board the plane and he lied in the hospital. He MIGHT have lied at the airport, that has never been proven and given he’s dead likely never will be one way or the other. He did NOT lie at the hospital when asked about his travel history, which is really the most important part of that whole exchange > [@](#): > > It’s not about the Duncan. He is not “the Duncan”. He was Thomas Duncan, a man, a human being. Stop dehumanizing him. > [@](#): > > As patient zero his actions infected 2 other people. Luckily they were in the medical field yet one of them traveled after following the directions of the CDC. A doctor who was suppose to be self monitoring traveled all over the place. These are responsible people in the medical field. And you know what? Dr. Spencer _was not sick_ and therefore _was not contagious_ when he “traveled all over the place”. The nurse OK’d to travel by the CDC _was not sick_ at the time she traveled. It is highly unlikely either of them infected anyone else by their actions. I know it’s hard for people to wrap their heads around this fact _but Ebola patients are not contagious UNTIL they actually get sick_. Yes, this is unlike some other infections where you can be infectious before you show symptoms but hey, those diseases aren’t Ebola. > [@](#): > > Once it transitions beyond likely carriers to people who can’t pinpoint how they got it then there is no system in place to track it. Well, IF that happens then you treat anyone running a high fever as a potential Ebola case until a definitive test can be made or they progress to additional symptoms. Would that be inconvenient? Of course it would, widespread outbreaks and epidemics are like that. On the other hand, it might cut down on influenza which kills thousands or tens of thousands _every year_, unlike Ebola. > [@](#): > > In the real world 7 billion people travel where they want, when they want and interact with who they want, how they want. Yes, that is called freedom. Why are you afraid of freedom? Here’s a newsflash for you: it’s pretty damn rare when an ill patient shows up in a doctor’s office and can definitely state when and where they acquired an infection. That’s usually discovered after the fact, if at all. Taking a medical history involves gathering as much information as possible because most typically people don’t know where they picked up an illness and yes, sometimes they lie. Which is why I keep saying if the triage nurse and rest of the ER personnel had done their jobs properly “has recently been in Liberia” combined with high fever should have been a red flag regardless of what else might have been said. That, combined with the inadequate gear and training given to the nurses who took care of Mr. Duncan makes me think that the hospital did not do as well as it should have in this matter. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2014, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-obama-isnt-taking-the-ebola-threat-seriously/701589/166 "2014-10-28T11:28:43Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Do you really think a virus lays dormant until body temperature rises like some kind of jack-in-the-box? Where is it hiding during this transition? Do you think everybody reacts the same? You’ve got that a bit backward - rising body temperature doesn’t trigger the virus, a rising virus count triggers fever. I don’t fully understand all the mechanisms involved because I’m not a medical doctor with expertise in this disease but reliable authorities (as opposed to the general media) have repeatedly stated that no one is contagious until they show actual symptoms of Ebola, of which high fever is _just one_ and not the only one. It is _possible_, based on Mr. Duncan’s associates, that people aren’t even strongly contagious the first few days of high fever. There does seem to be a strong correlation between the intensity of symptoms and how contagious someone is. Someone who is JUST showing the high fever and not yet experiencing other symptoms is not going to infect you merely by standing in the same room as you. > [@](#): > > What’s going out for public consumption doesn’t even match policy. A single nurse publicly complains about being quarantined and the President asks the states to release her yet [the US soldiers under his command](http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/27/politics/soldiers-monitored-ebola/index.html) are under [del]quarantine[/del] “controlled monitoring”. Part of what the nurse was complaining about wasn’t just being quarantined, it was being quarantined in a tent without proper clothing, without heat, and without proper and basic sanitation facilities which you aren’t allowed to do to convicted felons, much less innocent medical personnel. As for the military - I don’t know enough about what those soldiers were doing in Africa, or the reasoning behind what’s being done. Yes, it does sound like quarantine by another name but frankly, the military is allowed to restrict access to its personnel for any number of reasons. It may be the commanders involved are erring on the side of caution but soldiers often live and work in close quarters and contagious disease among the troops is always a concern. That’s why soldiers get a bajillion vaccines when they sign up. The 1918 flu pandemic got its start in army barracks and was spread (inadvertently) by military personnel. It’s a different situation than in the civilian world and that soundbite you linked to just isn’t enough information to go on. > [@](#): > > It’s clearly a very dangerous virus capable of rapidly infecting a population and it’s being treated as such when someone has it. It’s actually pretty slow at spreading when compared to the common cold, flu, measles, chicken pox, and a lot of other disease that spread much more effectively and easily among people. Yes, it’s dangerous, but much of what’s happening is based on ignorance, fear, and panic and not actual medical knowledge. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2014, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-obama-isnt-taking-the-ebola-threat-seriously/701589/167 "2014-10-28T11:32:12Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Which President do you support? I support The Commander in Chief, who took the oath of office. I support the one who stayed in The White House even after military-trained terrorists started lone wolf attacks on it; not the one who landed his plane & hid when terrorists attacked. I support the one that **got** Bin Laden, not the one who paid his hotel keepers trillions “to look for him” for almost 2 decades. Quarantines, when medically appropriate are necessary. “No-Thought” quarantines are about as smart as minimum sentencing guidelines and mandatory jail sentences: They’re just an easy fix for lazy minds with no concept or care about what it will take to make that happen in the future or what it will mean for the country. > [@Trinopus](#): > > Don’t ask me; I’m not a doctor. Same. I’ll the the MDs determine and recommend while the Administrators administrate. Its not perfect, but its the best working healthcare system I’ve ever lived under. > [@Trinopus](#): > > (How do I know you aren’t an enemy agent provocateur trying to raise the level of panic in the U.S.?) While **Magiver** has been here long enough for me to know he isn’t that, his argument seems VERY **“Swift Boat”** in nature\*\* and right before an election.\*\* I’d be curious to know if he read it someplace (and if Rove wrote it). ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2014, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-obama-isnt-taking-the-ebola-threat-seriously/701589/168 "2014-10-28T17:15:54Z")
Broomstick (and others who agree with him): what do you do when you have symptoms of illness? I would guess that you immediately rush off to the doctor or emergency room. Those of us who are not in the middle/upper class American way of life react quite differently: we self-medicate and/or suffer through it. We believe that most spells of sickness clear themselves up in a few days because of the self-healing properties of the human body. So we only go to the doctor or emergency room when the symptoms are quite strong or after a number of days of not getting better. So I can see people easily spreading ebola even if they live in the U.S. or other advanced country. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2014, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-obama-isnt-taking-the-ebola-threat-seriously/701589/169 "2014-10-28T17:38:27Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > So I can see people easily spreading ebola even if they live in the U.S. or other advanced country. At present, unless you’re in a handful of African countries, you will know if you’ve potentially been exposed to Ebola and if so, should immediately go to a hospital if you get any symptoms. But even if you don’t, you’re not going to be infecting people unless they are in close contact with your bodily fluids. Basically, unless someone with Ebola throws up on you in public, you’re safe. It’s spreading in areas with no real sanitation, so everyone is exposed to everyone else’s bodily waste, and where people are interacting with corpses with no protection. Ebola is an _extremely_ nasty disease. That very nastiness, however, is one of the main reasons it’s so hard to catch. Someone who’s infectious is simply not going to be in contact with many people, as they will either be dead or they’ll wish they were, and not be out in public. Remember, even the family of the first guy to die in the US didn’t catch it. Even at the feverish stage, only the bodily fluids of the infected person can spread the disease, not proximity. In summary, no-one is _easily_ spreading Ebola. ---
**Author:** ![dude77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce73a5/32.png) [@dude77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dude77)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2014, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-obama-isnt-taking-the-ebola-threat-seriously/701589/170 "2014-10-28T21:24:42Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Someone who’s infectious is simply not going to be in contact with many people, as they will either be dead or they’ll wish they were, and not be out in public. I concur with this. From what I hear, you start vomiting frequently, having diarrhea frequently and a host of other things … you’re either going to die or seek help quickly … won’t be walking around town amongst the people or ‘sleeping it off’ with some medicine at that point ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2014, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-obama-isnt-taking-the-ebola-threat-seriously/701589/171 "2014-10-28T23:09:31Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > Broomstick (and others who agree with him): what do you do when you have symptoms of illness? > > I would guess that you immediately rush off to the doctor or emergency room. > > Those of us who are not in the middle/upper class American way of life react quite differently: we self-medicate and/or suffer through it. No, actually I don’t run to the doctor for every little thing. However, if I was running a 103 degree fever yes I’d go see a doctor because that’s serious in an adult for whatever reason it occurs. Certainly, if I was frequently vomiting and shitting on top of that I’d go to an ER. And, just FYI - I haven’t been anything other than poor for the better part of a decade now, but thanks for assuming I’m wealthier than I actually am. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-obama-isnt-taking-the-ebola-threat-seriously/701589/172 "2014-10-29T02:15:58Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > No, actually I don’t run to the doctor for every little thing. However, if I was running a 103 degree fever yes I’d go see a doctor because that’s serious in an adult for whatever reason it occurs. Certainly, if I was frequently vomiting and shitting on top of that I’d go to an ER. You keep repeating this meme that you have to be vomited or shit on to catch the virus. It passes through body fluids. That includes sweat and semen. Both a nurse and a doctor walked around with the virus. One of them traveled. Either of them could have had sexual contact or passed it on through sweat after a workout. The idea that it suddenly becomes infectious at 103 deg and not 100 has no basis in fact. It doesn’t turn into something different at 103 deg. It doesn’t spring forth at 103 deg. The rise in temperature is an indication the immune system has recognized it and is responding to it. The current response does nothing to limit people coming into the country with the virus who don’t currently show symptoms. Once in the country they will engage in the same behavior that spreads viruses. Once the initial link is gone then there is no way to trace the path and isolate likely candidates. And that’s how it spins out of control. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-obama-isnt-taking-the-ebola-threat-seriously/701589/173 "2014-10-29T02:33:26Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > . . . The current response does nothing to limit people coming into the country with the virus who don’t currently show symptoms. Once in the country they will engage in the same behavior that spreads viruses. Once the initial link is gone then there is no way to trace the path and isolate likely candidates. And that’s how it spins out of control. Please show us the evidence that this is true. You keep making broad declarations, but they appear to be incorrect, and certainly not supported by any scientific data. Doctors who have actually worked with Ebola for years say that it is not communicated by people who are not exhibiting symptoms. Why should I believe you and disbelieve them? ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-obama-isnt-taking-the-ebola-threat-seriously/701589/174 "2014-10-29T04:28:44Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Please show us the evidence that this is true. You keep making broad declarations, but they appear to be incorrect, and certainly not supported by any scientific data. > > Doctors who have actually worked with Ebola for years say that it is not communicated by people who are not exhibiting symptoms. Why should I believe you and disbelieve them? Actually doctors who have worked with Ebola for years are being a lot less absolutist in their statements as compared to public statements being made by officials who have no prior experience working with Ebola. Which seems to be a point that **Magiver** has made over and over. I tend to believe the doctors who have worked with Ebola for years over blanket absolute statements made by doctors who have not worked with Ebola. From: [An Introduction to Ebola: The Virus and the Disease](http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/179/Supplement_1/ix.long) as published in the Journal of Infectious Diseases back in 1999 by C.J. Peters and J.W. Peters. [C.J. Peters](http://www.nytimes.com/2001/08/14/science/scientist-at-work-c-j-peters-a-baffling-viral-outbreak-he-s-on-the-trail.html) is a former chief of the Special Pathogen Branch at the CDC and has extensive experience researching dangerous pathogens including Ebola. > [@](#): > > There is considerable misunderstanding concerning the potential for aerosol transmission of filoviruses. **The data on formal aerosol experiments leave no doubt that Ebola and Marburg viruses are stable and infectious in small-particle aerosols, and experience of transmission between experimental animals in the laboratory supports this.** Indeed, during the 1989–1990 epizootic of the Reston subtype of Ebola, there was circumstantial evidence of airborne spread of the virus, and supporting observations included suggestive epidemiology in patterns of spread within rooms and between rooms in the quarantine facility, high concentrations of virus in nasal and oropharyngeal secretions, and ultrastructural visualization of abundant virus particles in alveoli. However, this is far from saying that Ebola viruses are transmitted in the clinical setting by small-particle aerosols generated from an index patient. \*\*Indeed patients without any direct exposure to a known EHF case were carefully sought but uncommonly found. The conclusion is that if this mode of spread occurred, it was very minor. \*\* _internal citations omitted_ **emphasis** added Key point. Such patients were rare, but were found as noted in a workup of the Kikwit outbreak… [Ebola Hemorrhagic Fever, Kikwit, Democratic Republic of the Congo, 1995: Risk Factors for Patients without a Reported Exposure](http://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/179/Supplement_1/S92.full) also published in the Journal of Infectious Diseases in 1999. > [@](#): > > In a review, Peters et al. concluded that although the major mode of interhuman transmission of hemorrhagic fevers is direct contact, transmission via large droplets, aerosolized particles, or fomites cannot be excluded. This may explain the mode of transmission in the 5 patients without reported physical contact. > > …Direct person-to-person contact was the likely mode of transmission for most EHF cases during this outbreak. However, our findings suggest that other EHF transmission modes cannot be excluded and may account for infection in those individuals for whom no previously recognized mode of transmission could be documented. _internal citations omitted_ That’s 5 patients positive for Ebola with no reported prior physical contact with an Ebola patient, nor an Ebola patient’s bodily fluids, but who did visit an Ebola patient. Peer reviewed studies by experts. So what about an asymptomatic patient transmitting the disease to others? [Michael Osterholm](http://www.jhsph.edu/events/2014/ebola-forum/speaker-bios/osterholm-michael.html), an epidemiologist who has worked on Ebola and who was appointed to the National Science Advisory Board on Biosecurity, [had this to say](http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-ebola-questions-20141007-story.html#page=1) about whether a person who is infected but lacks symptoms could transmit the disease: “It’s really unclear. None of us know.” So what prior experience does current CDC director Thomas Friedan have working with Ebola? None. How about Ebola Czar Ron Klain? None. If your argument is based upon an appeal to authority, it helps if the authority you cite actually has some relevant expertise. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-obama-isnt-taking-the-ebola-threat-seriously/701589/175 "2014-10-29T04:33:40Z")
**Iggy** : Well, I still don’t agree with you…but you did provide a cite and evidence, so you’re way ahead of others here. Thank you! ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-obama-isnt-taking-the-ebola-threat-seriously/701589/176 "2014-10-29T11:53:38Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > You keep repeating this meme that you have to be vomited or shit on to catch the virus. It passes through body fluids. That includes sweat and semen. Should also include snot and vaginal mucus as well but you keep forgetting to add them to your list. > [@](#): > > Both a nurse and a doctor walked around with the virus. One of them traveled. Either of them could have had sexual contact or passed it on through sweat after a workout. Er… you seem _really_ obsessed with the notion of sexual transmission. Just how much sex do you think goes on during shopping for bridal gowns? Seriously, you make it sound like the aisles of airplanes are covered in humping passengers and men are wandering the street spraying semen on complete strangers. > [@](#): > > The idea that it suddenly becomes infectious at 103 deg and not 100 has no basis in fact. The problem here is that a LOT of things can raise your temp to 100 without you even being ill with anything - running/working out, stress, anger, too much clothing in an overheated room… A 100 degree temperature _alone_ doesn’t mean you’re necessarily sick with anything although it’s certainly worth looking further at the patient. A 103 degree fever, regardless of cause, is dangerous in any adult human being. ANYONE with a 103 degree fever has some sort of serious problem that should be diagnosed and treated. > [@](#): > > The current response does nothing to limit people coming into the country with the virus who don’t currently show symptoms. And… this is largely because there is no easy, non-invasive way to find virus in someone with no symptoms. I realize you think it’s criminally negligent but I’m OK with the current system, where people coming from high-risk areas are monitored and their temps taken a couple times a day. They can then be isolated and treated at the earliest sign of symptoms, but those who never get sick are minimally impacted. > [@](#): > > Once in the country they will engage in the same behavior that spreads viruses. OK, first problem here is that not all viruses spread in the same manner. Second, no, people will not being coming over from Liberia or Sierra Leone or anywhere else and engaging in massive orgies followed by smearing sweat, snot, and semen on random passers-by as you seem to imply. Third, this obsession with semen you seem to have: every source I’ve seen talks about the virus being in semen AFTER the illness. Please provide a cite that a man’s semen becomes infectious BEFORE he starts showing other symptoms. Sure, that might be the case but provide PROOF. We’re supposed to be fighting ignorance with _facts_, not guesses and speculation. > [@](#): > > Once the initial link is gone then there is no way to trace the path and isolate likely candidates. And that’s how it spins out of control. Except it’s not spinning out of control, is it? You’re talking about guilt by association, of imprisoning people for no other reason than they happened to be in proximity with a particular other person. THAT could spin out of control, too. Quarantine should be imposed based on FACTS and REASON, not fear and panic. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-obama-isnt-taking-the-ebola-threat-seriously/701589/177 "2014-10-29T12:02:28Z")
> [@Iggy](#): > > Actually doctors who have worked with Ebola for years are being a lot less absolutist in their statements as compared to public statements being made by officials who have no prior experience working with Ebola. I don’t think anyone has denied that if an Ebola patient sneezes into your bare face that the flying snot is, indeed an airborne bodily fluid. In that sense, yes, Ebola can be airborne. However, it needs to stay in those airborne fluid drops in order to remain viable. The virus _by itself_ does not float about in the air. So yes, you could have “aersolized” fluids in the air of a room of a patient with Ebola. That is why medical personnel treating Ebola patients gown up so thoroughly and wear face masks. Fluid droplets can be thrown into the air. They will also inevitably fall down within a short time period. Snot is not lighter than air, it doesn’t keep floating up into the stratosphere like a helium balloon. However, it is NOT like smallpox (as an example) where the virus apparently _can_ float by itself on the air. The last outbreak of smallpox occurred when the virus traveled through air ducts from a lab to a room _above_ the lab, like rising smoke, to infect a woman working there. THAT is what is typically meant by something being “airborne”, floating extensive distance on air currents in a very small particle form that is not inclined to fall down. There’s probably a different way to convey this - perhaps saying “yes, if you were standing next to a person with active Ebola who was coughing or sneezing directly on you, you would be at risk but it’s not something that will be floating in the air for days after an Ebola patient leaves a room”. But in our world of soundbites and dumbing-down news stories I guess that’s too complicated. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-obama-isnt-taking-the-ebola-threat-seriously/701589/178 "2014-10-29T15:16:14Z")
I think the President should appoint a Hand-Washing Czar. That will take care of all infectious diseases. For starters, s/he can install hand-washing stations at all points of entry into the USA and armed troops to make sure people wash their hands before they enter the country. The Canadian and Mexican borders might be a problem. Especially Mexico, since ISIS will be coming in that way. People should be asked to save the little soaps from hotels and send them to a collection point in Uvalde, Texas, where they can be distributed to the appropriate places. We’ll keep this thing under control if everyone works together. We also need a song to rally the public. Someone else will have to do that, as I’m not musical enough. And get a bunch of famous singers together to sing it. Use the funds raised to buy hand soap. Anyway, clearly Ebola is Obama’s fault since he was born in Africa and not Hawaii as his False Birth Certificate claims. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-obama-isnt-taking-the-ebola-threat-seriously/701589/179 "2014-10-29T22:51:50Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I don’t think anyone has denied that if an Ebola patient sneezes into your bare face that the flying snot is, indeed an airborne bodily fluid. In that sense, yes, Ebola can be airborne. However, it needs to stay in those airborne fluid drops in order to remain viable. The virus _by itself_ does not float about in the air. > > So yes, you could have “aersolized” fluids in the air of a room of a patient with Ebola. That is why medical personnel treating Ebola patients gown up so thoroughly and wear face masks. Fluid droplets can be thrown into the air. They will also inevitably fall down within a short time period. Snot is not lighter than air, it doesn’t keep floating up into the stratosphere like a helium balloon. > > However, it is NOT like smallpox (as an example) where the virus apparently _can_ float by itself on the air. The last outbreak of smallpox occurred when the virus traveled through air ducts from a lab to a room _above_ the lab, like rising smoke, to infect a woman working there. THAT is what is typically meant by something being “airborne”, floating extensive distance on air currents in a very small particle form that is not inclined to fall down. > > There’s probably a different way to convey this - perhaps saying “yes, if you were standing next to a person with active Ebola who was coughing or sneezing directly on you, you would be at risk but it’s not something that will be floating in the air for days after an Ebola patient leaves a room”. But in our world of soundbites and dumbing-down news stories I guess that’s too complicated. And slowly your argument peels away. First you had to be vomited or shit on to contract it. Then you admitted it transfers through semen and vaginal fluids. Now you’re admitting it moves in mucus. This is where we move on to surfaces that are contaminated from the residue of sneezes. Ebola can last for a couple of hours in the dried state up to[2 months](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2809803/Ebola-surfaces-TWO-months-Tests-reveal-certain-strains-survive-weeks-stored-low-temperatures.html) under the right conditions. It’s time you stopped with the goofy insistence that people have to be assaulted by body fluids from an infected person. If it was that hard to catch then it wouldn’t spread as fast as it does. I don’t know what you think they do in Liberia but vomiting and shitting on each other is not on their list of things to do. It’s a virus that travels just like other viruses do. It’s not the jack-in-the-box projectile vomiting Linda Blair circus show you keep making it out to be. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-obama-isnt-taking-the-ebola-threat-seriously/701589/180 "2014-10-29T23:21:47Z")
It doesn’t spread fast at all, and no-one’s changed their story. It is only transmitted by bodily fluids, and you are only likely to catch it if you are messing in an infected person’s puke and shit. If someone who’s not currently shitting out their digestive system coughs on you, nothing will happen. The idea that you could catch Ebola from dried snot is as absurd as the idea that you could catch HIV from toilet seats. It’s exactly the same scaremongering lies that were told about that disease. They are equally hard to catch, the difference is someone’s infectious with Ebola for days, but with HIV for, potentially, decades. Are you worried that someone with AIDS will cough on you and infect you? If not, why are you worried about that with Ebola - a disease that has infected orders of magnitude less people, and is equally not airborne. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-obama-isnt-taking-the-ebola-threat-seriously/701589.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-obama-isnt-taking-the-ebola-threat-seriously/701589.md?page=10)