# It's official: Police Officers can murder anyone without any reprocussions **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 13, 2008, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-police-officers-can-murder-anyone-without-any-reprocussions/456329 "2008-07-13T14:38:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2008, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-police-officers-can-murder-anyone-without-any-reprocussions/456329/101 "2008-07-15T06:41:07Z")
I don’t get the outrage here. According to the story, Mr. Tirado gestured as if he was armed and said “You want to see my new Ruger?”. By doing that, he escalated the confrontation to one where any reasonable person would consider Mr. Tirado armed and to be in danger for one’s life. A moment to talk about Mr. Sawyer. I find it despicable that he ran away for almost a day, likely to sober up. I don’t care that he was a cop, that really has no bearing on the story, for all practical purposes he was simply a man who had a CCP. All of the cop hate in this thread is completely immaterial. When he decided to go out drinking, he should have left his weapon behind. That’s the law for civilians with a CCP and it should be the law for cops as well(I dunno if it is). HE HAD NO BUSINESS CARRYING A WEAPON IN AN IMPAIRED CONDITION, COP OR NO. Still, the fault here lies on Mr. Tirado. HE was the one who indicated he had a gun, HE was the one who indicated that he was going to draw it, HE was the one who invited, no, demanded a deadly response. If someone confronts me over a traffic dispute, and he says he has a gun and makes as if to draw it, and I am legally carrying a weapon, OF COURSE I am going to draw my weapon and fire at him as many times as it takes to put him down. Who wouldn’t and who could blame me? All of the anti-cop RO in this thread is totally misplaced. Let’s lay this out as simply as possible (in deference to the anti-gun crowd). You legally have a gun, for whatever reason. A man confronts you angrily, and gets more and more upset as time goes on. You try to placate him to no avail. He reaches into his coat and screams " I bet you don’t feel the same way after you taste my gun, motherfucker!" So…what do you do? I know I’ve exaggerated for effect here, but if you do anything other than draw your gun and blow his fucking head off…regardless of what’s in his hand when it comes out of his coat…then you are a fucking moron, and 9 times out of 10 you’ll be a dead fucking moron, and deservedly so. Why should Mr. Sawyer be expected to act any differently just because he’s a cop? He’s made a number of mistakes, and it looks like they’ll deservedly cost him his job, but the shooting (given the facts as we know them)? Justified, justified, absolutely justified. ---
**Author:** ![Bookkeeper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bookkeeper/32/281_2.png) [@Bookkeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bookkeeper)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2008, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-police-officers-can-murder-anyone-without-any-reprocussions/456329/102 "2008-07-15T15:05:04Z")
[QUOTE=Weirddave] I don’t get the outrage here. According to the story, Mr. Tirado gestured as if he was armed and said “You want to see my new Ruger?”. By doing that, he escalated the confrontation to one where any reasonable person would consider Mr. Tirado armed and to be in danger for one’s life. [/QUOTE] I was watching one of those COPS-type video shows on Sunday evening. They showed an episode where a woman pulled over for suspected DUI jumped out of the car holding a black object and pointing it at the two cops making the stop. They immediately drew their weapons, pointed them at the woman, and then … _tried to determine if she really had a gun_! Having finally identified the object as a car phone, _they proceeded to arrest her without shooting her multiple times_! Note that this woman was clearly trying to look like she was armed, and even insulted the cops for not shooting her as she was being arrested, but they felt no need to shoot, pepper spray, or taser her. Too often, it seems that police shoot or taser a suspect simply because it’s easier than an alternative method of dealing with a situation rather than because it’s warranted. (Yes, and [Canadian cops can be as bad as any others](http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2007/11/14/bc-taservideo.html).) ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2008, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-police-officers-can-murder-anyone-without-any-reprocussions/456329/103 "2008-07-15T15:45:33Z")
[QUOTE=Bookkeeper] I was watching one of those COPS-type video shows on Sunday evening. They showed an episode where a woman pulled over for suspected DUI jumped out of the car holding a black object and pointing it at the two cops making the stop. They immediately drew their weapons, pointed them at the woman, and then … _tried to determine if she really had a gun_! Having finally identified the object as a car phone, _they proceeded to arrest her without shooting her multiple times_! [/QUOTE] That was their mistake then. In the situation you’ve described, they absolutely should have shot the woman. When someone threatens a cop with a gun or an object that they are trying to make look like a gun, they deserve to be shot. Period. Most of the time it will be a gun, why should the cops put their lives at risk for that one in a hundred times where the person is threatening them with a banana and not a Glock? ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2008, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-police-officers-can-murder-anyone-without-any-reprocussions/456329/104 "2008-07-15T15:48:46Z")
Did anyone except for the shooter confirm that the dead guy did guesture and say that? ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2008, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-police-officers-can-murder-anyone-without-any-reprocussions/456329/105 "2008-07-15T15:55:11Z")
[QUOTE=Zebra] Did anyone except for the shooter confirm that the dead guy did guesture and say that? [/QUOTE] Someone in the dead guys car said that he said that. ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2008, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-police-officers-can-murder-anyone-without-any-reprocussions/456329/106 "2008-07-15T16:17:16Z")
[QUOTE=Zebra] Did anyone except for the shooter confirm that the dead guy did guesture and say that? [/QUOTE] From the article linked in post #4, by **Gfactor** : > [@](#): > > According to Sawyer and one of Tirado’s passengers, the unarmed Tirado called out, “Want to see my new Ruger?” and extended his arm as they drove near E. 117th St. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2008, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-police-officers-can-murder-anyone-without-any-reprocussions/456329/107 "2008-07-15T16:43:56Z")
**Carol Stream** has self-identified as female on these boards. I suggest we take her word for it, and drop the issue. And Carol Stream, IL, is the mailing address of Columbia House, of record club, CD club, video club, and DVD club fame. No cite, but I think I’ve seen that return address attached to other businesses of a mail-order nature, as well. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2008, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-police-officers-can-murder-anyone-without-any-reprocussions/456329/108 "2008-07-15T16:54:58Z")
I thought Carol Stream just became upset when people identified it as female and then refused to say which gender it was. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2008, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-police-officers-can-murder-anyone-without-any-reprocussions/456329/109 "2008-07-15T20:02:36Z")
[Shielded from Justice: Detroit: Civil Lawsuits](http://www.hrw.org/reports98/police/uspo63.htm) In Detroit the police continually commit acts to civilians that result in law suits. The cops may get away with it but the city pays over and over. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-police-officers-can-murder-anyone-without-any-reprocussions/456329.md?page=5)