# It's official: the Catholic Church is nuts! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 15, 2022, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-the-catholic-church-is-nuts/959537 "2022-02-15T15:27:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-the-catholic-church-is-nuts/959537/1 "2022-02-15T15:27:00Z")
> **[For years, a Catholic priest used one wrong word during baptisms. The church...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/02/15/catholic-priest-wrong-word-baptisms-invalid/?pwapi_token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWJpZCI6IjYyMDc3NTgiLCJyZWFzb24iOiJnaWZ0IiwibmJmIjoxNjQ0OTM4MTk4LCJpc3MiOiJzdWJzY3JpcHRpb25zIiwiZXhwIjoxNjQ2MTQ3Nzk4LCJpYXQiOjE2NDQ5MzgxOTgsImp0aSI6IjE0NThhNDgzLWE3MjEtNDBkNC05MTgzLTM2MWJlM2JiZTVjZSIsInVybCI6Imh0dHBzOi8vd3d3Lndhc2hpbmd0b25wb3N0LmNvbS9uYXRpb24vMjAyMi8wMi8xNS9jYXRob2xpYy1wcmllc3Qtd3Jvbmctd29yZC1iYXB0aXNtcy1pbnZhbGlkLyJ9.ftRqtWQMqbQVIb8qLEDeb6OrhrqmthBLUK_ZTVDlrqk&itid=gfta)** > > “If you were baptized using the wrong words, that means your baptism is invalid, and you are not baptized,” the Roman Catholic Diocese of Phoenix said on its website. “You will need to be baptized.” > … > “We baptize you in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,” Arango, a priest in the Diocese of Phoenix, repeated during myriad ceremonies. > > But Arango misused one word that eventually compromised the validity of all of those rituals: Instead of saying “I baptize you,” he used the word “we,” the Roman Catholic Diocese of Phoenix has announced in a [news release](https://dphx.org/valid-baptisms/). > > Arango’s incorrect word nullified all of the baptisms the priest performed using that language, a probe conducted by the diocese recently revealed. > > “If you were baptized using the wrong words, that means your baptism is invalid, and you are not baptized,” the diocese said on its[website.](https://dphx.org/valid-baptisms/) “You will need to be baptized.” > … > > The mistake goes beyond baptism, the first Catholic sacrament. Because baptism is a sacrament that opens the door to others, if an individual was improperly baptized by Arango and later received other sacraments, such as confirmation or marriage, they may need to repeat some or all of those sacraments after they are validly baptized. > … I was raised Catholic in the 50s & 60s, took Catechism classes, went to four years of Catholic high school, and four years of Catholic college. In my occupation as a grant writer for 30+ years, I wrote proposals for several Catholic organizations, and produced a newsletter for a Catholic seminary (I wrote all the articles including the Rector’s message). I am informed on the subject of Catholicism. There aren’t words in my vocabulary for how NUTS this is! Okay, let the Church (or this Archdiocese) have its nit-picky rules, because I’m sure Jesus was a nit-picky kind of guy. Let them say, _“Sorry, you can’t get into heaven because some doofus priest used the wrong **pronoun** while inducting you. Oh well, limbo is boring, but at least there’s no fire.”_ Fine, let them. But how can any adult human being with half a brain in their head let themselves be bullied, controlled, nay, **insulted** by this kind of bullshit?? Use the intelligence God gave you, sheeple! The Holy Trinity must be rolling all six of their eyes! [/irony] Must calm down… maybe go for a walk. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-the-catholic-church-is-nuts/959537/2 "2022-02-15T15:30:43Z")
Yeah, it is nuts. I read that story and thought the priest was doing the ceremony in good faith and the people accepted the ceremony as being proper. If there was ever a case of no harm- no foul, this is it. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-the-catholic-church-is-nuts/959537/3 "2022-02-15T15:33:42Z")
A related thread was started the other day in Great Debates. Of course, that one isn’t here in the Pit, so is more constrained in its discussion. 😉 > [@Catholic priest inadvertently changed one word during baptism rites for decades, and apparently it's a BIG PROBLEM](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-priest-inadvertently-changed-one-word-during-baptism-rites-for-decades-and-apparently-its-a-big-problem/959494/): > > A priest with the Catholic Diocese of Phoenix, named Father Andres Arango, has apparently been using the phrase “we baptize you in the name of the Father,” et. al., for his entire career, when he should have been using the word “I” instead. Which potentially invalidates thousands of baptisms, affecting other sacraments such as confirmation and communion. All over one word. [[image] ](https://i.imgur.com/VSJv7KP.jpg) Jeez, they can’t cop to the mistake and say it’s okay? ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-the-catholic-church-is-nuts/959537/4 "2022-02-15T15:36:57Z")
Ah, I didn’t see that thread in GD (needless to say). I read the article in WaPo a little while ago, and the top of my head flew off. I invite those who wish to abandon constraint in their replies to post here. 😠 ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-the-catholic-church-is-nuts/959537/5 "2022-02-15T15:41:56Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > If there was ever a case of no harm- no foul, this is it. A foundational doctrine of the Catholic Church is Original Sin, which might be summarized as “No harm, foul”, or possibly “No foul, foul”. It’s hard for them to get away from the deep-rooted instinct that “foul” is a principal source of revenue. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-the-catholic-church-is-nuts/959537/6 "2022-02-15T15:49:41Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > It’s hard for them to get away from the deep-rooted instinct that “foul” is a principal source of revenue. Okay Catholic church, if you say I am not really part of your stupid losers club for jerks then return all the money I’ve tithed. ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-the-catholic-church-is-nuts/959537/7 "2022-02-15T15:54:04Z")
God is not mocked. If you don’t want to burn in Hell forever then dot your i’s and cross your t’s. And hope everyone else does too. Rules are rules. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-the-catholic-church-is-nuts/959537/8 "2022-02-15T15:54:35Z")
Look, how many times does someone have to get eaten by the demon they just summoned before people finally realize: When you’re using magic words, _the words matter!_ ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-the-catholic-church-is-nuts/959537/9 "2022-02-15T16:02:17Z")
I don’t want to defend this insanity, but as I pointed out in the other thread, apparently some people (though not, all seem to agree, this particular priest) have deliberately used “we” instead of “I” in order to make some sort of theological point that the Church disapproves of. So there is a specific objection to this wording, in addition to the general objection to nonstandard language. Still seems completely crazy to me, and when you’ve got _Jews_ thinking that your religion is overly concerned with strict adherence to bizarre and arbitrary rules, that’s really saying something. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-the-catholic-church-is-nuts/959537/10 "2022-02-15T16:03:20Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Instead of saying “I baptize you,” he used the word “we,” the Roman Catholic Diocese of Phoenix has announced > [@Catholic priest inadvertently changed one word during baptism rites for decades, and apparently it's a BIG PROBLEM](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/catholic-priest-inadvertently-changed-one-word-during-baptism-rites-for-decades-and-apparently-its-a-big-problem/959494/1): > > “we baptize you in the name of the Father,” et. al., for his entire career, when he should have been using the word “I” instead I/we see some confusion here. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-the-catholic-church-is-nuts/959537/11 "2022-02-15T16:04:52Z")
And some say it’s the ‘woke liberals’ who are overly concerned with pronouns … I think this puts the lie to _that_ one, at least. Amen/A-person/A-people ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-the-catholic-church-is-nuts/959537/12 "2022-02-15T16:06:35Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Ah, I didn’t see that thread in GD (needless to say). I read the article in WaPo a little while ago, and the top of my head flew off. > > I invite those who wish to abandon constraint in their replies to post here. 😠 Bless, you, our child. :flees: ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-the-catholic-church-is-nuts/959537/13 "2022-02-15T16:12:23Z")
I don’t know why the Catholic Church couldn’t just sweep this under the rug the same way they have done with the whole predatory priests thing, and other outrages. I guess this is a more serious offense? ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-the-catholic-church-is-nuts/959537/14 "2022-02-15T16:19:24Z")
If these had been Jewish baptisms, the congregants would have shouted out the correction the first time it happened. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-the-catholic-church-is-nuts/959537/15 "2022-02-15T16:20:47Z")
This seems like an article from The Onion. Something like, “Pope Sneezes During Ceremony, Accidentally Excommunicates 20% Of All Catholics”. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-the-catholic-church-is-nuts/959537/16 "2022-02-15T16:51:09Z")
I read this in a Brother Cadfael book, for what it’s worth. One reason he (Cadfael) stayed a brother rather than becoming a priest is that the priest agrees to take on the role of personal intermediary between his flock and God. The responsibility is very personal, and it was more responsibility than he thought he was fit to assume. Anyway, the role of the priest is appropriate for the use of the pronoun “I” and not “we.” Makes me wonder what is the point the priests who use “we” are trying to make? ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-the-catholic-church-is-nuts/959537/17 "2022-02-15T17:04:15Z")
This started over a year ago. The WP is really late getting wind of it. > **[Catholicism Just Fell Apart Because the Vatican Said Some Baptisms Were Fake](https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com/2020/10/06/catholicism-just-fell-apart-because-the-vatican-said-some-baptisms-were-fake/)** > > The Church just suffered a fatal error of its own creation. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-the-catholic-church-is-nuts/959537/18 "2022-02-15T17:10:17Z")
> [@susan](#): > > If these had been Jewish baptisms, the congregants would have shouted out the correction the first time it happened. “We baptize you in the name of–” “_Oy gevalt_! This is a synagogue, we don’t baptize anyone here!” ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-the-catholic-church-is-nuts/959537/19 "2022-02-15T17:10:37Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > This seems like an article from The Onion. > > Something like, “Pope Sneezes During Ceremony, Accidentally Excommunicates 20% Of All Catholics”. - _The Onion_ has been unable to keep up with real life lately. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-the-catholic-church-is-nuts/959537/20 "2022-02-15T17:22:01Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > I read this in a Brother Cadfael book, for what it’s worth. Aside: I adore Cadfael. I’ve watched the TV series (about five times…), haven’t read the books, and his workshop with all the wines, oils, dried herbs, is one of my fantasy havens. * * * > [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > This started over a year ago. The WP is really late getting wind of it. Why now, I wonder? Because Arizona? The article mentions Detroit as Ground Zero. * * * > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > “We baptize you in the name of–” > “ _Oy gevalt_ ! This is a synagogue, we don’t baptize anyone here!” Well, Jews have the [_mikveh_](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikveh) (or _mikvah_), which Christians turned into baptism. When John the Baptist immersed Jesus in the river, the river was serving as a _mikveh_, which was fine, dandy, and kosher, even today. The difference is that immersion in the _mikveh_ isn’t obligatory across the board for conversion. Actually not much in Jewish practice is obligatory, including believing in God. * * * > [@running\_coach](#): > > _The Onion_ has been unable to keep up with real life lately. Reality is going to put _The Onion_ out of business. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-the-catholic-church-is-nuts/959537.md?page=2)