# It's official: the Catholic Church is nuts! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 15, 2022, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-the-catholic-church-is-nuts/959537 "2022-02-15T15:27:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-the-catholic-church-is-nuts/959537/21 "2022-02-15T17:23:41Z")
I think it’s an “it takes a village” type idea, that the presence of the parents and the community welcoming the new baby is what makes the occasion special, not just the recitation of the proper magic words by the officially authorized representative of GodCo. Clearly a dangerously heretical attitude. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-the-catholic-church-is-nuts/959537/22 "2022-02-15T17:32:27Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > …not just the recitation of the proper magic words by the officially authorized representative of GodCo. Clearly a dangerously heretical attitude. Yeah, definitely heresy. (Where are those matches, gasoline, and logs I’ve been collecting?) I was a senior in Catholic high school and once asked in religion class in all sincerity, _“Other religions believe in the same God and Jesus, and they follow the Ten Commandments-- what exactly is the problem with that?”_ The look of sheer _horror_ that formed on the face of the teacher (a lay teacher, not a nun) told me I had put my foot in it. _“Oh,”_ I said, _“that’s heresy, isn’t it?”_ She nodded and I sat down. That was pre-Vatican II when only Catholics could go to heaven. I feel sorry for all those poor bastards who are frying in Hell because they ate meat on Friday back when it was a mortal sin. I guess the eternal joke is on them. 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-the-catholic-church-is-nuts/959537/23 "2022-02-15T17:35:05Z")
I was going to dispute this and say that all Jewish sects do require full immersion for converts, but then I checked it out and you’re right, the Reform movement apparently did away with it a while back before restoring it as a “recommendation” in 2001. Everyone else considers it an absolute requirement, but, to the relevant point, not even the most rule-obsessed Orthodox would retroactively invalidate a conversion due to some mistake in the ritual. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-the-catholic-church-is-nuts/959537/24 "2022-02-15T17:37:04Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > This started over a year ago. The WP is really late getting wind of it. It’s not the first time that baptisms have been deemed invalid for this reason. But this instance of it is recent. This letter from the Bishop of Phoenix is dated Jan 14 2022: [https://dphx.org/valid-baptisms/message-from-bishop-olmsted/](https://dphx.org/valid-baptisms/message-from-bishop-olmsted/) And Fr. Arango’s resignation is dated Feb 1st 2022: [https://dphx.org/valid-baptisms/message-from-fr-andres-arango/](https://dphx.org/valid-baptisms/message-from-fr-andres-arango/) ---
**Author:** ![lum\_s\_husband](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lum_s_husband/32/3698_2.png) [@lum\_s\_husband](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lum_s_husband)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-the-catholic-church-is-nuts/959537/25 "2022-02-15T18:01:50Z")
The purpose of the Catholic clergy is to ensure that God, the almighty creator of everything, remains on his leash. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-the-catholic-church-is-nuts/959537/26 "2022-02-15T18:21:47Z")
" “If you were baptized using the wrong words, that means your baptism is invalid, and you are not baptized,” the diocese said on its[website.](https://dphx.org/valid-baptisms/) “You will need to be baptized.” And of course, I’m sure there will be some monetary costs/donations involved. Like many things these days, I suspect it’s all about grifting the rubes. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-the-catholic-church-is-nuts/959537/27 "2022-02-15T18:24:01Z")
> [@74westy](#): > > God is not mocked. If you don’t want to burn in Hell forever then dot your i’s and cross your t’s. > > And hope everyone else does too. Rules are rules. Let me guess… You would have turned in your grandmother to the Stasi, because, hey Nana, rules are rules. ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-the-catholic-church-is-nuts/959537/28 "2022-02-15T18:29:34Z")
In fact I did turn my grandmother in to the Stasi. She knew the rules. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-the-catholic-church-is-nuts/959537/29 "2022-02-15T18:33:14Z")
Well, there is certainly a segment of society that is slow/morally clueless so that you need to specify distinct rules for them to follow. Otherwise, god knows what they’d get up to, having no moral compass, nor the intelligence to foresee bad consequences for their actions. So for these folks, this system works. ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-the-catholic-church-is-nuts/959537/30 "2022-02-15T18:34:37Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > god knows Please capitalize the name of the deity, heathen. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-the-catholic-church-is-nuts/959537/31 "2022-02-15T18:36:52Z")
Apologies. Otherwise, Cthulhu knows what they’d get up to, having no moral compass, nor the intelligence to foresee bad consequences for their actions. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-the-catholic-church-is-nuts/959537/32 "2022-02-15T18:43:47Z")
The bad news, besides all those people that weren’t really baptized are now in Hell because of this mistake, is that now SovCits think they are right because the “magic words” were not spoken so now those people did not create joinder with the RCC. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-the-catholic-church-is-nuts/959537/33 "2022-02-15T19:00:08Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > And Fr. Arango’s resignation is dated Feb 1st 2022: Well, looks like he’s unavailable to re-do all these baptisms. Maybe they can call in Monsignor Mulligan. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-the-catholic-church-is-nuts/959537/34 "2022-02-15T19:22:42Z")
Disclaimer: I haven’t read this thread yet beyond the OP, so apologies if this is redundant: Okay, so a whole lot of baptisms may need do-overs. And subsequent sacraments too (as a non-Catholic, that had never occurred to me). But how about all those unfortunate souls who have died in the meantime? There must be some of these. So, as OP implies, those will be forever stuck in limbo, at best. Sucks to be them. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-the-catholic-church-is-nuts/959537/35 "2022-02-15T21:22:27Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > But how about all those unfortunate souls who have died in the meantime? There must be some of these. So, as OP implies, those will be forever stuck in limbo, at best. Sucks to be them. They stood before the pearly gates, Peter looked up in his book and said “Son/daughter, you lived a righteous, Catholic life, never committed a deadly sin, confessed and repented all your venial sins, be welcome to…Wait! I see, the priest who baptized you used the wrong formula! Descend into hell, heathen!” ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-the-catholic-church-is-nuts/959537/36 "2022-02-15T21:49:00Z")
At this point, I’m not seeing a lot of difference between the perfect incantation of specific words at a baptism, and the exact pronunciation of words used in fictional spells in the Harry Potter universe. Hopefully, the people who got baptized “wrong” did not end up getting [splinched.](https://www.hp-lexicon.org/magic/splinching/) ---
**Author:** ![dirtball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dirtball/32/18772_2.png) [@dirtball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dirtball)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-the-catholic-church-is-nuts/959537/37 "2022-02-15T21:51:21Z")
Eh, pretty sure God know what the priest meant. I mean he _is_ God, after all. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-the-catholic-church-is-nuts/959537/38 "2022-02-15T22:05:08Z")
My understanding is that they don’t charge for baptisms. I wonder, though, whether those who decline to be re-baptized will stop receiving the parish’s fundraising appeals. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-the-catholic-church-is-nuts/959537/39 "2022-02-15T22:20:27Z")
What I’m reading here is that the Diocese of Phoenix is nuts. Has the Vatican actually weighed in on the matter? Because so far as I can tell, the diocese’s position is counter to Church teaching. For one thing, baptisms can be performed in any language, and not all languages have the singular-plural distinction. If “I” is valid but “we” isn’t, then how could one ever determine whether a baptism in Japanese was valid? For another, the Church recognizes something called the “baptism of desire”, where the sincere intent to baptize or be baptized exists, but through no fault of the people involved, the proper ceremony wasn’t able to be carried out. Surely, all of the people baptized by this priest received the baptism of desire. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2022, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-the-catholic-church-is-nuts/959537/40 "2022-02-15T22:20:53Z")
These are all funny jokes, but people do realize that’s not actually what they believe, right? Following all the rules _guarantees_ your entry into Heaven, but God also has the authority to cut you some slack. Obviously they can’t say for sure what He will do in any given case, but I doubt anyone really worries their loved ones have been cast into the fiery pit over this. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-the-catholic-church-is-nuts/959537.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-the-catholic-church-is-nuts/959537.md?page=3)