# It's official: the Catholic Church is nuts! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 15, 2022, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-the-catholic-church-is-nuts/959537 "2022-02-15T15:27:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2022, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-the-catholic-church-is-nuts/959537/61 "2022-02-16T00:15:33Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > . . . An athiest, a Jew, and a Communist, instead of walking into the nearest bar, saunter over to me. I give them instructions and the baptism is totally kosher, no matter which one does it. Cool, huh? 🕶   But only if you’re sprinkled with totally kosher water. ---
**Author:** ![Redcanoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b487fb/32.png) [@Redcanoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Redcanoe)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2022, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-the-catholic-church-is-nuts/959537/62 "2022-02-16T00:47:09Z")
I grew up in a non-denominational church and they called it a ‘dedication to Christ’, not a baptism when performed on an infant. Real baptism happened around age 12. I was baptized at 12 just to keep the peace at home, it didn’t mean diddly-doo to me. Can I be un-baptized? ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2022, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-the-catholic-church-is-nuts/959537/63 "2022-02-16T03:50:59Z")
> [@Redcanoe](#): > > Can I be un-baptized? You can find instructions on-line for vaccinated people to get themselves unvaccinated. You can probably adapt those procedures for the purpose. ---
**Author:** ![Redcanoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b487fb/32.png) [@Redcanoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Redcanoe)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2022, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-the-catholic-church-is-nuts/959537/64 "2022-02-16T04:06:19Z")
So maybe drinking bleach or something? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2022, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-the-catholic-church-is-nuts/959537/65 "2022-02-16T04:09:12Z")
…while saying the ritual words backwards and walking seven times in a counterclockwise circle. With your eyes closed. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2022, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-the-catholic-church-is-nuts/959537/66 "2022-02-16T09:22:50Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The Catholic church recognizes baptisms from most other sects, but the reverse does not necessarily hold. In fact, this is the key point of schism for the Baptists, who hold that baptism is only valid above the age of reason. This probably isn’t the thread for it, but there isn’t really any reason to believe that St. John the Baptist was _actually_ a Baptist, is there? ---
**Author:** ![HelenGawn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@HelenGawn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HelenGawn)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2022, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-the-catholic-church-is-nuts/959537/67 "2022-02-16T09:59:50Z")
If, like me, you were baptised into a “once saved, always saved” sect, sorry. You’ll just have to go to heaven with the rest of us saved heatherns. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2022, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-the-catholic-church-is-nuts/959537/68 "2022-02-16T10:05:39Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > Still seems completely crazy to me, and when you’ve got _Jews_ thinking that your religion is overly concerned with strict adherence to bizarre and arbitrary rules, that’s really saying something. ^ Word. > [@susan](#): > > If these had been Jewish baptisms, the congregants would have shouted out the correction the first time it happened. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > “We baptize you in the name of–” > “ _Oy gevalt_ ! This is a synagogue, we don’t baptize anyone here!” Cue everything coming to a complete halt while the rules are debated, there are at least three opinions for every two people present, and reference tomes are located and consulted. > [@ThelmaLou](#): > > The difference is that immersion in the _mikveh_ isn’t obligatory across the board for conversion. As always - depends on which Jews you ask. The more conservative types definitely require a mikveh dip for converts. > [@Senegoid](#): > > Okay, so a whole lot of baptisms may need do-overs. And subsequent sacraments too (as a non-Catholic, that had never occurred to me). > > But how about all those unfortunate souls who have died in the meantime? There must be some of these. So, as OP implies, those will be forever stuck in limbo, at best. Sucks to be them. Yep, at best they may be limbo. Or purgatory. But maybe they’re burning in hell for eternity because some dude used the wrong pronoun. And this is a “merciful” God?!? > [@Chronos](#): > > For another, the Church recognizes something called the “baptism of desire”, where the sincere intent to baptize or be baptized exists, but through no fault of the people involved, the proper ceremony wasn’t able to be carried out. Surely, all of the people baptized by this priest received the baptism of desire. > [@Thing.Fish](#): > > No, there’s a link to the Vatican’s responsa in the OP’s link of the GD thread (I also linked it directly in that thread), and it appears they agree with the Diocese that these people must be rebaptized. I have no idea how they would address either of your last two paragraphs. My (admittedly limited) understanding is that so long as all those incorrectly baptized people were unaware of the error then the bogus baptisms would be overlooked by their God but once they know about it they need to make the effort to correct the error or they’ll be subjected to Almighty Wrath. Those who have died in the meanwhile can’t fix the error they were unaware of, so presumably they get a pass. The living who can fix it don’t. > [@susan](#): > > It’s my understanding that LDS performs posthumous conversions, so there should be a mechanism for rebaptizing post-hoc. The LDS is very much NOT Roman Catholicism. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2022, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-the-catholic-church-is-nuts/959537/69 "2022-02-16T10:31:45Z")
I once remarked – about the last US President – that we could confidently redefine the upper limits of ‘execrable’ as ‘so bad that even the collective efforts of Dopers couldn’t truly capture it.’ I find myself feeling similarly about this story/thread: it feels like an ecclesiastical impossibility to truly capture how insane this whole thing sounds. Allow me to cite **[Michael Jackson](https://genius.com/Michael-jackson-ben-lyrics)**, who was oddly prescient on the issue: > [@](#): > > I used to say “I” and “me” > Now it’s “us”, now it’s “we” ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2022, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-the-catholic-church-is-nuts/959537/70 "2022-02-16T13:47:39Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > This probably isn’t the thread for it, but there isn’t really any reason to believe that St. John the Baptist was _actually_ a Baptist, is there? Cute. > [@Broomstick](#): > > As always - depends on which Jews you ask. The more conservative types definitely require a mikveh dip for converts. That’s why I said “isn’t obligatory **across the board**.” 🤨 ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2022, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-the-catholic-church-is-nuts/959537/71 "2022-02-16T13:52:59Z")
The MJ thing is the actual theological point, AIUI. It isn’t “we” the Church baptizing someone, it is God himself (with the priest as proxy). ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2022, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-the-catholic-church-is-nuts/959537/72 "2022-02-16T14:00:00Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > The MJ thing is the actual theological point, AIUI. It isn’t “we” the Church baptizing someone, it is God himself (with the priest as proxy). - So we can blame God for the screw-up. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2022, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-the-catholic-church-is-nuts/959537/73 "2022-02-16T14:27:47Z")
Yeah, but He’s a trinity in Catholic doctrine. We, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, baptize… No, wait, He’s actually a wave. No, a particle. Ugh, I think it depends on the experiment. ---
**Author:** ![Folly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folly/32/3219_2.png) [@Folly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folly)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2022, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-the-catholic-church-is-nuts/959537/74 "2022-02-16T14:45:29Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > No, wait, He’s actually a wave. No, a particle. Ugh, I think it depends on the experiment. Don’t you hate it when your theological probability wave collapses and you find yourself in hell? I know there are signed baptism agreements between different denominations. This seems to be at the country level for some reason? It was relevant in my family when we had to look up if a Catholic baptism was recognized in the Lutheran church. (It was) ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2022, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-the-catholic-church-is-nuts/959537/75 "2022-02-16T15:02:25Z")
When my daughter was born, at some point my sister contacted me asking when/where the baptism would be held. I laughed and explained that atheists do not baptize (we don’t, right?). It turned into a heated argument with my sister repeatedly asking me what if I was wrong, and my daughter died, and then she’d burn in hell or something. My daughter is now 31 and although she attended various church services with friends growing up, she has adopted my faith. She recently told me about her aunt (my sister) approaching her when she was 15, wanting to sneak her to be baptized. My daughter just laughed and told her she thought it was silly (it is, right?). ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2022, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-the-catholic-church-is-nuts/959537/76 "2022-02-16T15:08:18Z")
Is the idea that some earthly water will protect you from the flames of hell? ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2022, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-the-catholic-church-is-nuts/959537/77 "2022-02-16T15:35:08Z")
Full immersion in ivermectin. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2022, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-the-catholic-church-is-nuts/959537/78 "2022-02-16T15:45:12Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > …(it is, right?). Why do you ask? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2022, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-the-catholic-church-is-nuts/959537/79 "2022-02-16T16:19:34Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Why do you ask?. I was asking rhetorically. If you were as well, whoops on me. ⁉ ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2022, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-the-catholic-church-is-nuts/959537/80 "2022-02-16T16:43:17Z")
No, I wasn’t being rhetorical. It seemed an odd question in the context of your post. I guess you were being ironic/funny. To answer your question: God (or whatever you call the force that keeps everything cooking-- I prefer the term The Vastness) doesn’t care even one little bit about baptism. All that stuff was invented by human beings in an attempt to (1) make sense of this place/time where we find ourselves-- Good luck! It can’t be done!, and (2) give themselves the illusion that they can exert some kind of control over The Vastness-- another hopeless task. And yet hope springs eternal, ya know? The more deeply you delve, the more paradox and mystery you discover. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-the-catholic-church-is-nuts/959537.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-the-catholic-church-is-nuts/959537.md?page=5)