Cite? Or whoosh?
What I meant was that in spite of removing SH for the wrong reasons I still think it was the right thing to do and that we will continue to do the right thing and see it through to the end. Which would include a self governing and self sufficient Iraq with a democratic system of government.
The figure comes from a study that says that an estimated 100,000 more people died in Iraq during the period of invasion that the same period before the war. This includes all form of death not just one directly related to fighting. Disease, heat attack, lack of medicine etc
The actual count of civilians killed by direct action is more like 15K-17.5K
One thing is certain. It’s sucks major balls to be a commoner garden Iraqi today in much the same way as it did under Saddam. They even have the possibility of Death Squads returning to the streets. Yay! Except this time they’d be trained by the US.
Alright. Based on this logic, when exactly do you think we will be marching on Sudan? Atrocities are being committed on a daily basis. It’s nothing short of genocide. Our government has decried the actions of the corrupt government there for quite some time. Sanctions are clearly not working. If what we’re all about is freeing a people from slavery and tyranny? Why have we done no more than pay token lip service to something we say we will do everything in our power to stamp out?
I know of that study and its 95% confidence interval is someing IIRC between 8000 and 195,000 extra deaths. That range is so large as to make the study largely meaningless. We had a thread on it before but I can’t seem to find it.
You lot couldn’t drop into the Congo on the way to Sudan could you? Since the US is willing to throw it’s young men and women away for humanitarian reasons. There 3.8 millions dead reasons so far and it’s still growing.
I wanted to point out I’m not attacking you personally, just your message, because I’ve heard it before.
I don’t see this scenario emerging anytime soon. There is some serious division between the groups over there which, devoid of any other factors will be enough to prevent happy land. There will be a blody civil war before Iraq has a hope of moving on. This power struggle won’t take place while our troops are there, but it’s pretty much inevitable.
While I don’t have a crystal ball to state exactly if/when it will happen, I do hope it isn’t until we finish with what we’ve already started.
Seeing it through to the end may simply mean propping up a puppet government until civil war or religious theocracy takes over. This would be worse for Iraqis than Saddam Hussein. This would be worse for us than Saddam Hussein. This will be fantastic for terrorists. And we will have spent hundreds of billions of dollars and hundreds of thousands of lives to accomplish it.
Going into Iraq without evidence of an immediate threat or a postwar plan is gross incompetence on an unimaginable scale. It doesn’t matter what “everyone” believed about Saddam Hussein or WMDs. The commander-in-chief is the one responsible for making sure the threat is real, is worth going to war, and we know how to win the war before going in.
**They DO! ** We have photographic proof from 1962. I wasn’t trained to hide under my desk for nothing!
That would be nice. Our recent history doesn’t inspire much confidence in that regard, though…
Whoosh.
I’ve got to learn to put those smilieys in when they are actually needed.
That’s because many of the insepectors were spies in the pay of the CIA.
Has anyone apologised to Scott Ritter yet?
Government today is so lazy.
Why when I was boy the CIA would have manufactured the evidence and planted it for the inspectors to find. But these spooks today just sit around looking at their satellite photos and drinking their fancy coffee drinks and HEY YOU KIDS GET OUT OF MY YARD!
Liberal -
You’re post might mean something if Clinton had actually, you know, INVADED.
Why people think they can justify what the present administration is doing by pointing out that a different administration, one which is usually villified by those justifying the present administration, is way beyond me.
“Look mommy, those evil, corrupt obviously wrong people are doing these bad things, so isn’t it okay for us to do those thing?”
Your post was about misinformation and how different administrations were all duped. Fair enough. Clinton and co. didn’t have their fact right. They were wrong.
So because Clinton was wrong Buch and company were justified in sending hundreds of Americans to their death?
[/End of Reply to Liberal]
For those that say, “Saddam was a bad man and I’m glad he is removed from power”, would you be willing to sacrifice your first born? How about your own life? If not, SHUT THE FUCK UP AND GO THE FUCK AWAY. BROTHERS, SISTERS, HUSBANDS, WIVES, SONS AND DAUGHTERS died because of your fucking attitude. These aren’t nameless, faceless drones that died. These are real, honest to goodness people that died. Some horribly. Why? Because Saddam was a bad man. Unless you think the cause was worthy of someone very, very close to you dying, you a goddam hypocrite.
I’ve come across conservative editorials saying things along the lines of “Well, yeah, he did turn out to be right about this, but he’s still a crazed asshole”. Blix doesn’t even rate that much.
Dirty deal, done dirt cheap. I can’t say I liked the guy, gave off too many “iron-ass” vibes. But looks from here like he took his job seriously, and did his very damndest. And was blindsided for it, big time. And I gotta wonder whatever happened to those “child abuse” rumors that were floated through the craposphere.
A good man fucked over by the people he naively tried to serve. Stinks.
Very good. So what say we throw the cravens out with the liars then? I’m game.
I’m hardly surprised at this revelation. It makes me dislike the Republicans, but dislike the Democrats even more because they’re enablers. Good thing I can’t vote for either of them 
And as for ‘doing the right thing for the wrong reasons’, if Bush & co. had actually come to NATO and the UN and said “We need to remove Saddam from power because he commits horrendous crimes against his own citizens”, he probably would have managed to win more international support.