# It's official - you have to be more ignorant than Pat Robertson to be a young-earth creationist **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 13, 2014, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-you-have-to-be-more-ignorant-than-pat-robertson-to-be-a-young-earth-creationist/688388 "2014-05-13T23:36:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-you-have-to-be-more-ignorant-than-pat-robertson-to-be-a-young-earth-creationist/688388/21 "2014-05-15T14:26:46Z")
> [@Paranoid\_Randroid](#): > > Going just by what **Friar Ted** posted — I haven’t listened to the video — that seems like the very definition of theistic evolution. To wit: the thesis that something like evolution through natural selection occurred but was to some degree divinely directed. Or, “God did it in a way completely indistinguishable from it happening through purely natural processes.” It’s a step down, in terms of basic honesty, from a God-of-the-Gaps argument. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-you-have-to-be-more-ignorant-than-pat-robertson-to-be-a-young-earth-creationist/688388/22 "2014-05-15T14:31:07Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > That is consistent with Theistic Evolution or at least a Pre-Adamic Humanity. Can you explain what those are, for a [del]godless heretic[/del] curious nonbeliever? ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-you-have-to-be-more-ignorant-than-pat-robertson-to-be-a-young-earth-creationist/688388/23 "2014-05-15T15:02:43Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > Or, “God did it in a way completely indistinguishable from it happening through purely natural processes.” It’s a step down, in terms of basic honesty, from a God-of-the-Gaps argument. I don’t think this is necessarily the case. If the universe is deterministic, then we could imagine it akin to a gigantic and incredibly complex, but ultimately computable simulation. Thus, essentially the different between a theist and an atheist is that a theist would believe that the initial conditions were determined by the creator, and an atheist would believe the initial conditions are either random or have some other determining factor such as a previous universe, cosmic evolution, multi-verse, etc. That is, it’s not that God necessarily has to do it in a way that’s indistinguishable, it’s that, with that assumption, he can actually do it using exactly that process. Now, whether this is what Pat Robertson believes or not, I’m not sure. I do think it’s interesting that he believes this though, since I’d assumed, obviously incorrectly, that he was a YEC. ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-you-have-to-be-more-ignorant-than-pat-robertson-to-be-a-young-earth-creationist/688388/24 "2014-05-15T16:09:10Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Can you explain what those are, for a [del]godless heretic[/del] curious nonbeliever? There were human shaped beings around before Adam and Eve, they just weren’t true humans. God invented those. The unspoken assumption is these sub humans were Black and God had the good sense to invent White Folk. And none of your back talk claiming Jesus was Jewish or other nonsense! ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-you-have-to-be-more-ignorant-than-pat-robertson-to-be-a-young-earth-creationist/688388/25 "2014-05-15T16:17:00Z")
> [@Paranoid\_Randroid](#): > > Going just by what **Friar Ted** posted — I haven’t listened to the video — that seems like the very definition of theistic evolution. To wit: the thesis that something like evolution through natural selection occurred but was to some degree divinely directed. It’s broad enough to define a range of beliefs, but de facto it usually seems to either avoid the issue of design, or outright deny that God is currently tinkering, rather than sowing seeds and letting whatever pops up to grow. In other words, indistinguishable from Darwinian beliefs which have unnecessarily, IMHO, been equated with atheism. And non-creationist criticism is usually of the philosophy, and not the mechanisms behind it. Some Jesuit science class is going to teach science, not religion unless it is presented as germane to a section on the “debate.” ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2014, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-you-have-to-be-more-ignorant-than-pat-robertson-to-be-a-young-earth-creationist/688388/26 "2014-05-15T17:25:34Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Can you explain what those are, for a [del]godless heretic[/del] curious nonbeliever? Theistic evolution is the idea that life evolved exactly in the way that science describes, but that it was designed to do so by God. Pre-Adamic Humanity is, presumably, the idea that there were humans before Adam. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2014, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-you-have-to-be-more-ignorant-than-pat-robertson-to-be-a-young-earth-creationist/688388/27 "2014-05-16T00:49:35Z")
> [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > I don’t think this is necessarily the case. If the universe is deterministic, then we could imagine it akin to a gigantic and incredibly complex, but ultimately computable simulation. Quantum physics very likely falsifies this, BTW. > [@](#): > > Thus, essentially the different between a theist and an atheist is that a theist would believe that the initial conditions were determined by the creator, and an atheist would believe the initial conditions are either random or have some other determining factor such as a previous universe, cosmic evolution, multi-verse, etc. **This is why I hate the term ‘belief’, because it lends itself to this kind of equivocation.** Either you changed the meaning of ‘belief’ partway through your sentence, or you misunderstand the atheist position: The theist position posits an entity outside the physical universe whereas the atheist one does not. They’re not on the same level, as the theist position clearly violates Occam’s Razor. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2014, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-you-have-to-be-more-ignorant-than-pat-robertson-to-be-a-young-earth-creationist/688388/28 "2014-05-16T02:51:54Z")
I always did like this “letter” that got passed around years ago here in Kansas, after a controversy about evolution and it’s teacing in public schools. [http://www.bio.net/bioarchives/plant-ed/1999-August/004911.html](http://www.bio.net/bioarchives/plant-ed/1999-August/004911.html) ---
**Author:** ![Double\_Foolscap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85e7bf/32.png) [@Double\_Foolscap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Double_Foolscap)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2014, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-you-have-to-be-more-ignorant-than-pat-robertson-to-be-a-young-earth-creationist/688388/29 "2014-05-16T09:42:46Z")
> [@](#): > > “You have to be deaf, dumb and blind to think that this Earth that we live in only has 6,000 years of existence, it just doesn’t, I’m sorry.” It’s worth it to be able to play a mean pinball. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2014, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-you-have-to-be-more-ignorant-than-pat-robertson-to-be-a-young-earth-creationist/688388/30 "2014-05-16T13:58:33Z")
[Ken Ham Challenges Pat Robertson To A Debate On Young Earth Creationism](http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/ken-ham-challenges-pat-robertson-debate-young-earth-creationism) Hey, the ‘Dumb And Dumber’ sequel is almost out already! ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2014, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-you-have-to-be-more-ignorant-than-pat-robertson-to-be-a-young-earth-creationist/688388/31 "2014-05-16T14:43:35Z")
Wow. Words fail me. As, no doubt, they would fail everyone involved in such a “debate”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-official-you-have-to-be-more-ignorant-than-pat-robertson-to-be-a-young-earth-creationist/688388.md?page=1)