# It's Officially Election Day **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 4, 2008, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-officially-election-day/471000 "2008-11-04T05:06:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2008, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-officially-election-day/471000/221 "2008-11-04T21:10:28Z")
> [@jadler](#): > > I did do my research, in fact perhaps more that most of you. Given the message board you’re posting on, that would be _highly_ unlikely. ---
**Author:** ![jadler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a87d85/32.png) [@jadler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jadler)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2008, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-officially-election-day/471000/222 "2008-11-04T21:11:43Z")
> [@Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](#): > > It’s your right to express yourself by refusing to vote. > > I mentioned previously that my wife got to vote for the first time today. She’s from Iran. In her old country candidates are allowed on the ballot only if they are Muslims, only if they support the revolution and only if they abide by the teachings of the Ayatollah Khomeini. If someone feels they pass muster on all that they can try to run, but nearly everyone who files for office is rejected by the Council of Guardians who decides who is holy enough for office and who is not. There are no primaries in Iran. What’s left for the final ballot is hard liners and ultra hard liners. And none of it matters much because the unelected Supreme Leader trumps the powers of the President by a wide margin (though McCain constantly refers to the Iranian President as a “dictator”). > > Having the vote in these elections (and the primaries) is a privilege I cherish. I will _never_ sit out an election day. That’s good to hear, just remember that this nation’s political candidates rarely see hardship in their lives. I truly admire the courage of voters and politicians in Iran but in the US such things tend to be moot. Just remember that not voting can be just as powerful as voting in the right times. Such as this election where both parties have sold a very vague message of “change”. It is most likely that neither candidate has a real plan for the change they announce in the form of policy and plan. It’s all well and good until you require action. Still though its good to hear from someone that understands an outside point of view. I’m glad to hear that you appreciate freedom, just be aware of situations that offer little true freedom. This election offers two flavors of the same thing. Therefore the freedom factor is limited. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2008, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-officially-election-day/471000/223 "2008-11-04T21:14:11Z")
> [@jadler](#): > > Just remember that not voting can be just as powerful as voting in the right times. Such as this election where both parties have sold a very vague message of “change”. It is most likely that neither candidate has a real plan for the change they announce in the form of policy and plan. It’s all well and good until you require action. So you _haven’t_ done research after all. ---
**Author:** ![jadler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a87d85/32.png) [@jadler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jadler)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2008, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-officially-election-day/471000/224 "2008-11-04T21:14:16Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > Given the message board you’re posting on, that would be _highly_ unlikely. Given the fact that I am here and posting, that you don’t know me, and that you sound rather self-assured I’d say I’d take my chances. ---
**Author:** ![jadler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a87d85/32.png) [@jadler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jadler)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2008, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-officially-election-day/471000/225 "2008-11-04T21:16:15Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > So you _haven’t_ done research after all. What basis do you have for that claim? I would gladly debate my knowledge with you and perhaps be humbled by the exchange. If you would like to engage in serious debate I suggest we discuss your knowledge of the political scene as well. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2008, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-officially-election-day/471000/226 "2008-11-04T21:16:56Z")
> [@jadler](#): > > Hi Jim glad to hear you think. > > If you had fully read into my post you would note that I stated that I dislike both party’s this year. Meaning that I did do my research, in fact perhaps more that most of you. It is unfair for you to assume ignorance at the first sign of a non-voter. That is a sign of group think and therefore ignorance on your part. > > Thanks for your time though. I suppose that’s worth something. Actually my phrasing was a proper reaction to your post. In general the way you phrased it may it sound like we did not do our own research. I was pointing out in a fairly strong way that at least on this board (at least in the political threads) we tend to. It was not a slam on you, it was a defense of the Dopers. I have voted 3rd party before. 2000 is a good example. I did educate myself on both candidates and I did not approve of either. I have some regrets but I was frankly sick of the Clintons at that point, Gore ran a poor campaign and could not vote for the Bush/Cheney/Rove machine that buried my preferred candidate McCain. Now 8 years later of Bush/Cheney and I think Obama is the right change and I agree with him on enough issues. That and my own frankly Hawkish views look less savory with the methods used in Iraq. It is time for a change and McCain is not the man he was 8 years ago and the country needs a little liberalism and a lot of green and Obama is more green. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2008, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-officially-election-day/471000/227 "2008-11-04T21:17:58Z")
> [@jadler](#): > > What basis do you have for that claim? I would gladly debate my knowledge with you and perhaps be humbled by the exchange. If you would like to engage in serious debate I suggest we discuss your knowledge of the political scene as well. Frankly, the fact that you seem to think that Obama hasn’t known hardship in his life shows that you have done no research on the man behind the supposed “worship”. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2008, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-officially-election-day/471000/228 "2008-11-04T21:18:57Z")
> [@jadler](#): > > That’s good to hear, just remember that this nation’s political candidates rarely see hardship in their lives. I truly admire the courage of voters and politicians in Iran but in the US such things tend to be moot. Your further posts belie the contention that you did your due diligence. You appear to be unaware that Barack Obama lived on Food Stamps growing up. > [@jadler](#): > > Just remember that not voting can be just as powerful as voting in the right times. Such as this election where both parties have sold a very vague message of “change”. It is most likely that neither candidate has a real plan for the change they announce in the form of policy and plan. Now I’m convinced you’re being less-than-truthful about the extent of your research. [Barack Obama’s Blueprint for Change](http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/ObamaBlueprintForChange.pdf). Absolutely nothing vague about that. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2008, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-officially-election-day/471000/229 "2008-11-04T21:21:29Z")
> [@jadler](#): > > Given the fact that I am here and posting, that you don’t know me, and that you sound rather self-assured I’d say I’d take my chances. No dear, it is _us_ you underestimate. You clearly have no clue whereof you post. This is the Straight Dope Message Board. We’ve been “fighting ignorance since 1973 (it’s taking longer than we thought)”. I defy you to find any other message board on the internet that has more people more deeply educated on the issues we discuss, most especially this election. Welcome, none-the-less. ---
**Author:** ![jadler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a87d85/32.png) [@jadler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jadler)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2008, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-officially-election-day/471000/230 "2008-11-04T21:22:44Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Actually my phrasing was a proper reaction to your post. In general the way you phrased it may it sound like we did not do our own research. I was pointing out in a fairly strong way that at least on this board (at least in the political threads) we tend to. It was not a slam on you, it was a defense of the Dopers. > > I have voted 3rd party before. 2000 is a good example. I did educate myself on both candidates and I did not approve of either. I have some regrets but I was frankly sick of the Clintons at that point, Gore ran a poor campaign and could not vote for the Bush/Cheney/Rove machine that buried my preferred candidate McCain. Now 8 years later of Bush/Cheney and I think Obama is the right change and I agree with him on enough issues. That and my own frankly Hawkish views look less savory with the methods used in Iraq. It is time for a change and McCain is not the man he was 8 years ago and the country needs a little liberalism and a lot of green and Obama is more green. I see, perhaps it was a misunderstanding on both our parts. My apologies, I was under the impression that my standpoint was under criticism. I am glad that you voted third party, I myself was a supporter of the third party in that election but was unable to vote because I was not of legal age at the time. Since then I have become interested in politics, but sadly this race has shattered my previous views of the system. I like your assessment of the Clintons. Frankly I am sick of the media saturation they received. The whole thing became a media frenzy and frankly I believe that it had a hand in distracting voters from the issues. ---
**Author:** ![jadler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a87d85/32.png) [@jadler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jadler)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2008, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-officially-election-day/471000/231 "2008-11-04T21:25:09Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > No dear, it is _us_ you underestimate. You clearly have no clue whereof you post. This is the Straight Dope Message Board. We’ve been “fighting ignorance since 1973 (it’s taking longer than we thought)”. I defy you to find any other message board on the internet that has more people more deeply educated on the issues we discuss, most especially this election. > > Welcome, none-the-less. Thanks for the welcome. I highly doubt you personally have fought ignorance since 1973 but if you have then bravo. Seeing as how I was born in the 90’s I suppose I am at a disadvantage. Still though it makes me happy to be in such a reactive community. After all what use is debate if we don’t push it’s limits? ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2008, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-officially-election-day/471000/232 "2008-11-04T21:25:22Z")
> [@jadler](#): > > Just remember that not voting can be just as powerful as voting in the right times. Such as this election where both parties have sold a very vague message of “change”. It is most likely that neither candidate has a real plan for the change they announce in the form of policy and plan. It’s all well and good until you require action. Um, yeah. This pretty much completely undermines your assertion that you’ve done your research. Big time. But hey, if it makes you feel powerful to NOT vote, by all means, work out. Indulge yourself–heck, live dangerously and don’t vote TWICE! ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2008, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-officially-election-day/471000/233 "2008-11-04T21:27:30Z")
If you don’t like either candidate, fine. But to imply others vote out of ignorance or a herd mentality is the height of arrogance. ---
**Author:** ![jadler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a87d85/32.png) [@jadler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jadler)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2008, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-officially-election-day/471000/234 "2008-11-04T21:27:36Z")
hilarious SmartAleq. In fact I might just do it three times. 🙂 anyway, many people have accomplished great things through noncompliance. MLK and Ghandi ring any bells? Refusing your participation in a massive group think event IS a strong statement. Obviously you don’t think like that so enough said. And yes it mostly is a group think mentality. Japanese voters actually meet the candidates on the streets before they vote. What do we do? Americans watch TV and log into Myspace for 90% of their answers. (I know that I just made up that 90% 🙂 its just a way of communicating what I mean) **I don’t mean you personally I mean Americans in general.** ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2008, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-officially-election-day/471000/235 "2008-11-04T21:29:21Z")
> [@jadler](#): > > Just remember that not voting can be just as powerful as voting in the right times. . I gave serious consideration to not voting this year. Decided to vote. Bottom line, either McCain or Obama is going to be POTUS. One candidate is preferable to the other in my view, even though neither is really “good”. I went with the lesser of two evils. It does not really matter which candidate I chose at the top of the ballot. My state will be going for McCain with or without my input. However, the local races are close enough that my vote could, in theory, make a difference. I’m not going to say who I chose for POTUS. Will say that I voted a split ticket this year, as I’ve done in the past. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2008, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-officially-election-day/471000/236 "2008-11-04T21:31:01Z")
> [@jadler](#): > > Given the fact that I am here and posting, that you don’t know me, and that you sound rather self-assured I’d say I’d take my chances. Welcome to the board. With regard to **Shayna** , however, I have to say there’s very little chance you’re correct. I think not voting is a totally valid option, which puts me at odds with some people here - even third-party voting sometimes get scorned. But I’m not impressed with the arguments you’ve put forward to this point. They’re very generic. ---
**Author:** ![Hazle\_Weatherfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Hazle\_Weatherfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hazle_Weatherfield)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2008, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-officially-election-day/471000/237 "2008-11-04T21:31:39Z")
Uh, not to hijack this thread and actually go back to the OP, but: I walked right into my polling place and voted…no line. I left my apt. at 3:00 and was back by 3:15. I was voter 227. It felt much more important than I thought it would! I actually got chills as I filled in the oval beside Obama/Biden. ---
**Author:** ![jadler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a87d85/32.png) [@jadler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jadler)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2008, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-officially-election-day/471000/238 "2008-11-04T21:32:55Z")
Its seriously a tough choice, vote for the lesser of two evils or not at all. I’m glad you at least kept the option open, most people I speak to about this just call me stupid for not voting. Once I was threatened with violence for my decision. (Nothing serious though) ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/47e85d/32.png) [@Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Lance_Murdoch)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2008, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-officially-election-day/471000/239 "2008-11-04T21:35:26Z")
> [@jadler](#): > > That’s good to hear, just remember that this nation’s political candidates rarely see hardship in their lives. I truly admire the courage of voters and politicians in Iran but in the US such things tend to be moot. > > Just remember that not voting can be just as powerful as voting in the right times. Such as this election where both parties have sold a very vague message of “change”. It is most likely that neither candidate has a real plan for the change they announce in the form of policy and plan. It’s all well and good until you require action. > > Still though its good to hear from someone that understands an outside point of view. I’m glad to hear that you appreciate freedom, just be aware of situations that offer little true freedom. This election offers two flavors of the same thing. Therefore the freedom factor is limited. Hardship? First off, that’s not a qualification for office. Second, you could not have picked a campaign where that would be less true as both of these men have suffered horrible hardships. Yes, not voting can be a powerful statement, but acting too cool for school and casting about implications about the uneducated people who do vote is hardly advancing the cause of freedom. And lastly, do you really think there will be no change when Obama takes over from Bush even though they disagree on nearly everything? That smacks of Nader’s assertion that there was no real difference between Bush and Gore which is kind of like saying there is no difference between war and peace and no difference between clean and dirty. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2008, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-officially-election-day/471000/240 "2008-11-04T21:35:54Z")
> [@jadler](#): > > Its seriously a tough choice, vote for the lesser of two evils or not at all. I’m glad you at least kept the option open, most people I speak to about this just call me stupid for not voting. Once I was threatened with violence for my decision. (Nothing serious though) I don’t know that you are stupid, but I can say that you misapprehend the strategic nature of voting. By not voting, you reveal complete indifference to any electoral outcome. If you do actually believe that one evil is lesser than the others, your vote choice does not reflect your preferences. As such, your arguments against voting are nonsensical. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-officially-election-day/471000.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-officially-election-day/471000.md?page=13)