# Its ok. The police were trying to shoot the autistic guy, they just hit the black guy by accident **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 23, 2016, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-ok-the-police-were-trying-to-shoot-the-autistic-guy-they-just-hit-the-black-guy-by-accident/760672 "2016-07-23T13:20:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-ok-the-police-were-trying-to-shoot-the-autistic-guy-they-just-hit-the-black-guy-by-accident/760672/21 "2016-07-23T15:22:27Z")
Thank Og the guy is alive and appears to be recovering well (based on the video). It’s going to be a long, long road to fixing this problem… ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-ok-the-police-were-trying-to-shoot-the-autistic-guy-they-just-hit-the-black-guy-by-accident/760672/22 "2016-07-23T15:24:22Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > [The forensic evidence.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/11/28/the-physical-evidence-in-the-michael-brown-case-supported-the-officer/) > Care to link to the videos that show otherwise? Nothing in the forsensics is incompatible with witness testimony that Brown was shot by a cop out for revenge as opposed to a cop shooting in self-defense. The video of Walter Scott’s shooting in SC showed that cops are not above staging a scene so that evidence conveniently lines up with their lies. it would have taken very little effort for Brown to have been set up the same way. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-ok-the-police-were-trying-to-shoot-the-autistic-guy-they-just-hit-the-black-guy-by-accident/760672/23 "2016-07-23T15:53:39Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Maybe the officer will claim the truck backfired. To quote a veteran elsewhere: “I was in Iraq & even in an actual theater of war, unless you were immediately fired on we had several steps to go through before kill shots. We had rules of engagement and escalation of force cards my command made us carry on us at all times with those regulations. Even when a car possibly carrying explosives was barreling down on us, we were taught to exhaust several steps of warnings before killing: hand signals, flags pop smoke/flares, warning shots to the sides, disabling shots THEN kill shots. So for the life of me, I can’t figure out why on the streets of the United States of America police officers go immediately to murder and people are just like “Well, in the heat of the moment…”” ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-ok-the-police-were-trying-to-shoot-the-autistic-guy-they-just-hit-the-black-guy-by-accident/760672/24 "2016-07-23T15:54:32Z")
> [@](#): > > “Many officers thought the white male had a firearm. Only much later when we’re able to Monday-morning quarterback do we find out that it’s a toy,” Rivera said at a press conference Thursday. “Only much later do we find out that the individual was autistic. The officers on the scene did not know that.” Can’t see why the officers at the scene wouldn’t have know this. The video shows that Kinsey was yelling out that the other guy was autistic and unarmed and what he was holding in his hand was a toy truck. I suppose Kinsey in retrospect should have also yelled _“And I’m the supposed hostage here so you shouldn’t shoot me.”_ but I guess he mistakenly assumed the police knew that. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-ok-the-police-were-trying-to-shoot-the-autistic-guy-they-just-hit-the-black-guy-by-accident/760672/25 "2016-07-23T16:12:19Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Can’t see why the officers at the scene wouldn’t have know this. The video shows that Kinsey was yelling out that the other guy was autistic and unarmed and what he was holding in his hand was a toy truck. I suppose Kinsey in retrospect should have also yelled _“And I’m the supposed hostage here so you shouldn’t shoot me.”_ but I guess he mistakenly assumed the police knew that. The police claim they couldn’t understand what he was saying because they were too far away. Which is bullshit. The guy filming everything was no closer to the two than the cops were, and yet you can clearly hear what Kinsey was communicating. And phones are notorious for having poor reception There was also a witness on the scene who told the cops that the autistic guy was unarmed. So they are full of shit to deny they were informed. And moreover, if they couldn’t hear what Kinsey was saying, that’s all the more reason to hold fire. Assuming they are telling the truth and they were completely blind and deaf to what was happening, the therapist could have been shouting “HE HAS A BOMB! PLEASE DON’T SHOOT” and they wouldn’t have known at all. How is shooting at anyone in this situation proper procedure? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-ok-the-police-were-trying-to-shoot-the-autistic-guy-they-just-hit-the-black-guy-by-accident/760672/26 "2016-07-23T16:21:07Z")
Also, it bothers me that Rivera pointed out that the autistic guy is white. As if to communicate, “We were aiming for the white guy, not the black one. So let’s not make it a Black Lives Matter thing, okay?” ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-ok-the-police-were-trying-to-shoot-the-autistic-guy-they-just-hit-the-black-guy-by-accident/760672/27 "2016-07-23T16:36:01Z")
> [@holmes](#): > > I think you’re correct **monstro** , the country is finally seeing what black and poor folk have been saying for generations in this country about how they are treated by the police. The ability to for the public to close their eyes to the reality of how unjust the system is, is something society can’t maintain much longer. But only in relation to shooting black people. The entire justice system is rotten. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-ok-the-police-were-trying-to-shoot-the-autistic-guy-they-just-hit-the-black-guy-by-accident/760672/28 "2016-07-23T16:37:56Z")
That bothers me too. Not just because it totally misses the point (shooting unarmed white people is wrong too), but because by all signs it’s untrue. They never treated Kinsey like an innocent hostage. Instead of rushing to his aid after shooting him, they put him in cuffs. Did they even cuff the autistic guy? What changed post-shooting that enabled them to move in and suddenly control the scene, in a way that had supposedly been impossible beforehand? Why the lying and delayed disciplinary response, if this a case of nothing to see here, folks? ---
**Author:** ![Stately\_Greek\_Automaton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Stately\_Greek\_Automaton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stately_Greek_Automaton)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-ok-the-police-were-trying-to-shoot-the-autistic-guy-they-just-hit-the-black-guy-by-accident/760672/29 "2016-07-23T16:45:32Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > “Here, this is a toy truck. And this is a gun. See the difference?” > > “Oh, my, that’s confusing. Could you run that by me again, slowly, using small words?” Difference, defiance. I could see the confusion there. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-ok-the-police-were-trying-to-shoot-the-autistic-guy-they-just-hit-the-black-guy-by-accident/760672/30 "2016-07-23T17:13:38Z")
Hey, autistic lives matter! ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-ok-the-police-were-trying-to-shoot-the-autistic-guy-they-just-hit-the-black-guy-by-accident/760672/31 "2016-07-23T19:14:30Z")
The [latest](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/police-suspended-charles-kinsey-shooting_us_5792926ee4b01180b52f1098): A North Miami, Florida, police officer who shot an unarmed black mental health therapist was identified Friday as a SWAT team member, and a police commander accused of fabricating information about the shooting was suspended. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-ok-the-police-were-trying-to-shoot-the-autistic-guy-they-just-hit-the-black-guy-by-accident/760672/32 "2016-07-23T19:18:50Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > The police had no idea what was going on. They were so far away that they couldn’t tell it was a toy, and they couldn’t hear Kinsey telling them it was just a toy. That’s bullshit right there. > > First rule: know what you’re shooting at. It’s also a lie. We can clearly hear Kinsey yelling that he is a counselor, that the other guy is his patient, that the guy has a toy truck in his hands… if we can hear that clearly on a cel phone video taken from further away than the police were, the police could hear it clearly too. Damn near the entire police statement appears to be lies, actually. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-ok-the-police-were-trying-to-shoot-the-autistic-guy-they-just-hit-the-black-guy-by-accident/760672/33 "2016-07-23T19:24:10Z")
Yeah, I know that the first thing I do when I shoot the wrong person is to arrest him and provide no medical attention and ignore the guy I thought had a weapon. That’s what we do: leave the dangerous guy unrestrained and secure the bystander. Keeps the innocent ones safe and out of the way, right? ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-ok-the-police-were-trying-to-shoot-the-autistic-guy-they-just-hit-the-black-guy-by-accident/760672/34 "2016-07-23T19:29:11Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Damn near the entire police statement appears to be lies, actually. Which is the worst part. Do the police in this situation really think the public are just going to mindlessly believe every criminal lie they spout, no matter what the evidence says? The arrogance of their statement makes me think that yes they do. Which implies it is a pattern. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-ok-the-police-were-trying-to-shoot-the-autistic-guy-they-just-hit-the-black-guy-by-accident/760672/35 "2016-07-23T19:39:37Z")
So the cop who ‘accidentally’ shot the therapist is a SWAT team member. Aren’t those guys supposed to have more training than average cops? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-ok-the-police-were-trying-to-shoot-the-autistic-guy-they-just-hit-the-black-guy-by-accident/760672/36 "2016-07-23T19:50:32Z")
I will offer props to North Miami Mayor Smith Josephs and city councilmen Philippe Bien-Aime and Scott Galvin for their statements concerning the matter. All three have gone beyond the usual tepid language used and issued quite forceful condemnations, especially of the attempt to cover this up. If any of the three of them ever chance upon the Dope: good job, folks! ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-ok-the-police-were-trying-to-shoot-the-autistic-guy-they-just-hit-the-black-guy-by-accident/760672/37 "2016-07-23T19:58:34Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > The police claim they couldn’t understand what he was saying because they were too far away. Which is bullshit. The guy filming everything was no closer to the two than the cops were, and yet you can clearly hear what Kinsey was communicating. And phones are notorious for having poor reception There was also a witness on the scene who told the cops that the autistic guy was unarmed. So they are full of shit to deny they were informed. > > And moreover, if they couldn’t hear what Kinsey was saying, that’s all the more reason to hold fire. Assuming they are telling the truth and they were completely blind and deaf to what was happening, the therapist could have been shouting “HE HAS A BOMB! PLEASE DON’T SHOOT” and they wouldn’t have known at all. How is shooting at anyone in this situation proper procedure? I just saw this post and although I echoed you on the first paragraph, your second paragraph makes an excellent point that I failed to consider at all. Sadly, despite it not being proper procedure, it does happen. [Remember in 2014 when LA cops shot up a truck with over 100 rounds because they thought that Chris Dorner was in it](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2552016/Los-Angeles-police-officers-riddled-innocent-womens-pick-bullets-manhunt-cop-killing-former-officer-Chris-Dorner-DID-break-department-rules-investigators-conclude.html), despite never having seen the inside of the cab? 8 cops just opened fire on the truck only to find it was just a woman and her mother doing their newspaper delivery route. AFAIK, those cops are all still working as cops today; none lost their jobs over the incident. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-ok-the-police-were-trying-to-shoot-the-autistic-guy-they-just-hit-the-black-guy-by-accident/760672/38 "2016-07-23T20:01:57Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > First rule: know what you’re shooting at. It’s the first rule for non-cops, no question. For cops, the first rule is, “quickly shoot the black guy and then stand around while he bleeds to death.” ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-ok-the-police-were-trying-to-shoot-the-autistic-guy-they-just-hit-the-black-guy-by-accident/760672/39 "2016-07-23T20:05:51Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I just saw this post and although I echoed you on the first paragraph, your second paragraph makes an excellent point that I failed to consider at all. > > Sadly, despite it not being proper procedure, it does happen. [Remember in 2014 when LA cops shot up a truck with over 100 rounds because they thought that Chris Dorner was in it](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2552016/Los-Angeles-police-officers-riddled-innocent-womens-pick-bullets-manhunt-cop-killing-former-officer-Chris-Dorner-DID-break-department-rules-investigators-conclude.html), despite never having seen the inside of the cab? 8 cops just opened fire on the truck only to find it was just a woman and her mother doing their newspaper delivery route. AFAIK, those cops are all still working as cops today; none lost their jobs over the incident. [There were two separate incidents](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Dorner_shootings_and_manhunt#Truck_misidentifications), 25 minutes apart. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-ok-the-police-were-trying-to-shoot-the-autistic-guy-they-just-hit-the-black-guy-by-accident/760672/40 "2016-07-23T20:30:07Z")
I’m bothered by the idea that the North Miami police responded to reports of a man threatening suicide by sending the SWAT team. How about sending an officer trained in talking down such people? And there’s an [article in The New York Times today](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/24/fashion/cheryl-karcher-comeback-pill-popping-dermatologist.html) about a Manhattan dermatologist who was arrested at her office a couple of years ago for illegal possession of prescription drugs. The article describes the arresting officers as a “SWAT team in military garb”. Again, was it really necessary to send the SWAT team to a medical office to arrest someone with no record of violence? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-ok-the-police-were-trying-to-shoot-the-autistic-guy-they-just-hit-the-black-guy-by-accident/760672.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-ok-the-police-were-trying-to-shoot-the-autistic-guy-they-just-hit-the-black-guy-by-accident/760672.md?page=3)