# Its ok. The police were trying to shoot the autistic guy, they just hit the black guy by accident **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 23, 2016, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-ok-the-police-were-trying-to-shoot-the-autistic-guy-they-just-hit-the-black-guy-by-accident/760672 "2016-07-23T13:20:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-ok-the-police-were-trying-to-shoot-the-autistic-guy-they-just-hit-the-black-guy-by-accident/760672/41 "2016-07-23T20:32:35Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I’m bothered by the idea that the North Miami police responded to reports of a man threatening suicide by sending the SWAT team. How about sending an officer trained in talking down such people? > > And there’s an [article in The New York Times today](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/24/fashion/cheryl-karcher-comeback-pill-popping-dermatologist.html) about a Manhattan dermatologist who was arrested at her office a couple of years ago for illegal possession of prescription drugs. The article describes the arresting officers as a “SWAT team in military garb”. Again, was it really necessary to send the SWAT team to a medical office to arrest someone with no record of violence? It’s more dangerous to arrest someone who has skin in the game. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-ok-the-police-were-trying-to-shoot-the-autistic-guy-they-just-hit-the-black-guy-by-accident/760672/42 "2016-07-23T20:34:41Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > [There were two separate incidents](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Dorner_shootings_and_manhunt#Truck_misidentifications), 25 minutes apart. You’re right, there were two incidents. Guess what? [No Charges Against Officers Who Mistook Surfer for Rogue Cop Dorner in Manhunt > [@](#): > > In the report, the district attorney found that because McGee and his partner, Erin Sooper, were “anxious” and in a state of “panic,” their attempt to kill Mr. Perdue was justified, Sheahen said, adding that investigators never contacted Perdue nor his wife for their accounts about what happened. > [@](#): > > “The accounts of McGee and Sooper, while riddled with factual fantasy, were accepted at face value,” Sheahen said. “Panic and anxiety have no place in a police force. This report piles prosecutorial gibberish on top of police lawlessness.” ]([http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/No-Charges-Against-Officers-Who-Mistook-Surfer-for-Rogue-Cop-Dorner-in-Manhunt-240214551.html](http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/No-Charges-Against-Officers-Who-Mistook-Surfer-for-Rogue-Cop-Dorner-in-Manhunt-240214551.html)) ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-ok-the-police-were-trying-to-shoot-the-autistic-guy-they-just-hit-the-black-guy-by-accident/760672/43 "2016-07-23T20:39:18Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I’m bothered by the idea that the North Miami police responded to reports of a man threatening suicide by sending the SWAT team. How about sending an officer trained in talking down such people? > > And there’s an [article in The New York Times today](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/24/fashion/cheryl-karcher-comeback-pill-popping-dermatologist.html) about a Manhattan dermatologist who was arrested at her office a couple of years ago for illegal possession of prescription drugs. The article describes the arresting officers as a “SWAT team in military garb”. Again, was it really necessary to send the SWAT team to a medical office to arrest someone with no record of violence? SWAT was designed for hostage situations, active shooters, barricaded suspects, etc. but the ACLU says they are only used for those situations in 7% of SWAT raids. The other 93% are things that were historically not considered threatening enough to warrant a SWAT raid. [https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2014/06/24/new-aclu-report-takes-a-snapshot-of-police-militarization-in-the-united-states/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2014/06/24/new-aclu-report-takes-a-snapshot-of-police-militarization-in-the-united-states/) > [@](#): > > 62 percent of the SWAT raids surveyed were to conduct searches for drugs. > Just under 80 percent were to serve a search warrant, meaning eight in 10 SWAT raids were not initiated to apprehend a school shooter, hostage taker, or escaped felon (the common justification for these tactics), but to investigate someone still only suspected of committing a crime. > In fact, just 7 percent of SWAT raids were “for hostage, barricade, or active shooter scenarios.” > In at least 36 percent of the SWAT raids studies, no contraband of any kind was found. The report notes that due to incomplete police reports on these raids this figure could be as high as 65 percent. Real crime has been declining. [http://www.immigrationpolicy.org/sites/default/files/figure\_3.jpg](http://www.immigrationpolicy.org/sites/default/files/figure_3.jpg) So now cops have all these military weapons but not enough real crime to use them on. So they end up inflicting PTSD on the families of suspected criminals (not even convicted, just suspected) while doing drug raids because there aren’t enough real criminals to justify their violent paramilitary weapons and tactics. I can’t find them but I’ve read stories of the children of suspected criminals developing PTSD because the cops violently kicked down the door at 3am looking for marijuana (and many times not finding it). ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-ok-the-police-were-trying-to-shoot-the-autistic-guy-they-just-hit-the-black-guy-by-accident/760672/44 "2016-07-23T21:06:09Z")
On the bright side, it seems that the North Miami police are open to hiring those with disabilities, given that they put a blind man on the SWAT team. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-ok-the-police-were-trying-to-shoot-the-autistic-guy-they-just-hit-the-black-guy-by-accident/760672/45 "2016-07-23T21:53:56Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Thank Og the guy is alive and appears to be recovering well (based on the video). It’s going to be a long, long road to fixing this problem… Yeah the cop really screwed up, since the victim is alive and can tell what really happened. I wonder if anyone asked that scumbag sheriff who spoke at the RNC if this situation was justified also. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-ok-the-police-were-trying-to-shoot-the-autistic-guy-they-just-hit-the-black-guy-by-accident/760672/46 "2016-07-23T21:54:35Z")
This whole story has been really depressing. My son is autistic. He’s currently doing well under treatment and I never expect his life to take this turn, but I can so easily imagine this situation. People who work with autistic and mentally ill individuals ought to be getting medals and parades, not shot at for trying to do their jobs. Actually, in this case, he was really going above and beyond, and trying to save his patient. > [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > The mentally ill too, they can get treated pretty roughly by the police. I feel like in all this talk about police overreach, people are leaving out how terrifying and destructive police can be to a mentally ill person. > > [http://www.dailydot.com/via/police-brutality-mental-illness-epidemic/](http://www.dailydot.com/via/police-brutality-mental-illness-epidemic/) This is true. There have been recent cases in the Bay Area where people call in for help, thinking they’re going to get help talking someone out of suicide, or help restraining someone and getting them medical attention. Instead the person ends up dead. Dealing with the mentally ill population should absolutely be part of police training, especially since so many homeless people have some history of mental illness. > [@monstro](#): > > Also, it bothers me that Rivera pointed out that the autistic guy is white. As if to communicate, “We were aiming for the white guy, not the black one. So let’s not make it a Black Lives Matter thing, okay?” Agreed. Bad enough that it happened at all. Now they’re just making it worse. I know we can’t have IQ tests for police officers. Can we at least have some common sense requirements? > [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > That bothers me too. Not just because it totally misses the point (shooting unarmed white people is wrong too), but because by all signs it’s untrue. They never treated Kinsey like an innocent hostage. Instead of rushing to his aid after shooting him, they put him in cuffs. > > Did they even cuff the autistic guy? What changed post-shooting that enabled them to move in and suddenly control the scene, in a way that had supposedly been impossible beforehand? Why the lying and delayed disciplinary response, if this a case of nothing to see here, folks? I think they did cuff the autistic guy. At least I’ve seen pictures that seemed to show both in cuffs. I would imagine what changed is that the autistic guy became more compliant when the guns went off. > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > On the bright side, it seems that the North Miami police are open to hiring those with disabilities, given that they put a blind man on the SWAT team. About the only positive thing in this mess was your post. It shouldn’t make me laugh, but it did. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-ok-the-police-were-trying-to-shoot-the-autistic-guy-they-just-hit-the-black-guy-by-accident/760672/47 "2016-07-23T21:56:51Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > On the bright side, it seems that the North Miami police are open to hiring those with disabilities, given that they put a blind man on the SWAT team. And deaf, apparently, so a twofer ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-ok-the-police-were-trying-to-shoot-the-autistic-guy-they-just-hit-the-black-guy-by-accident/760672/48 "2016-07-23T22:04:15Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Also, it bothers me that Rivera pointed out that the autistic guy is white. As if to communicate, “We were aiming for the white guy, not the black one. So let’s not make it a Black Lives Matter thing, okay?” See, people just assume the worst about the police. Have you ever considered that in some of those other cases where the police shot a black guy that they might have been trying to shoot a white guy? ---
**Author:** ![CatastrophicFailure](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@CatastrophicFailure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CatastrophicFailure)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-ok-the-police-were-trying-to-shoot-the-autistic-guy-they-just-hit-the-black-guy-by-accident/760672/49 "2016-07-23T22:07:25Z")
> [@ddsun](#): > > I think they did cuff the autistic guy. At least I’ve seen pictures that seemed to show both in cuffs. I would imagine what changed is that the autistic guy became more compliant when the guns went off. The autistic man’s sister [reported in a FB post](https://www.facebook.com/M.J.Gypsy/posts/10209260642529215) that he was handcuffed and left in the back of a police car for four hours, and he’s now in the hospital because of the emotional trauma from the whole experience. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-ok-the-police-were-trying-to-shoot-the-autistic-guy-they-just-hit-the-black-guy-by-accident/760672/50 "2016-07-23T22:30:17Z")
“We were called on a possible attempted suicide, and we helped by shooting him.” Yeah, so much wrong with this story. And poor Mr. Kinsey, he seemed more afraid for his patient than concerned for his own safety. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2016, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-ok-the-police-were-trying-to-shoot-the-autistic-guy-they-just-hit-the-black-guy-by-accident/760672/51 "2016-07-23T22:49:24Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > And deaf, apparently, so a twofer Also, plays a mean pinball. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2016, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-ok-the-police-were-trying-to-shoot-the-autistic-guy-they-just-hit-the-black-guy-by-accident/760672/52 "2016-07-24T00:22:38Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > The police had no idea what was going on. They were so far away that they couldn’t tell it was a toy, and they couldn’t hear Kinsey telling them it was just a toy. That’s bullshit right there. The police were summoned by a 911 call in which the caller mistook the toy for a gun. > [@](#): > > First rule: know what you’re shooting at. Yes. But if the officer shot the guy holding the truck, I’d be inclined to accept his explanation that he thought it was a gun. “I thought this guy was threatening me or others with his gun, so I shot … one of the others.” This combined with the report that the officer replied, “I don’t know,” when asked by the victim why he shot him, gives further lie to the explanation. “I wasn’t aiming for you!” “Shit!” “I’m so sorry!” Any of those in response would have been consistent with the accidental hit. “I don’t know,” suggests that he did it, on purpose, and can’t articulate why he did it. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2016, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-ok-the-police-were-trying-to-shoot-the-autistic-guy-they-just-hit-the-black-guy-by-accident/760672/53 "2016-07-24T00:46:31Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes. But if the officer shot the guy holding the truck, I’d be inclined to accept his explanation that he thought it was a gun. > > “I thought this guy was threatening me or others with his gun, so I shot … one of the others.” This combined with the report that the officer replied, “I don’t know,” when asked by the victim why he shot him, gives further lie to the explanation. > > “I wasn’t aiming for you!” > > “Shit!” > > “I’m so sorry!” > > Any of those in response would have been consistent with the accidental hit. “I don’t know,” suggests that he did it, on purpose, and can’t articulate why he did it. You know you’ve screwed up pretty badly when _“Oops, I just shot somebody by accident”_ would have been a step up from what you actually did. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2016, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-ok-the-police-were-trying-to-shoot-the-autistic-guy-they-just-hit-the-black-guy-by-accident/760672/54 "2016-07-24T01:28:38Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The police were summoned by a 911 call in which the caller mistook the toy for a gun. > > Yes. But if the officer shot the guy holding the truck, I’d be inclined to accept his explanation that he thought it was a gun. Does your acceptance of that explanation take into account that Mr. Kinsey had shouted at least once that Arnaldo had a toy truck and not a gun? (You have watched the video, aye?) ---
**Author:** ![Daylate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9dc877/32.png) [@Daylate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daylate)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2016, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-ok-the-police-were-trying-to-shoot-the-autistic-guy-they-just-hit-the-black-guy-by-accident/760672/55 "2016-07-24T02:34:21Z")
Maybe we should start thinking about disarming the police??! ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2016, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-ok-the-police-were-trying-to-shoot-the-autistic-guy-they-just-hit-the-black-guy-by-accident/760672/56 "2016-07-24T03:02:18Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Does your acceptance of that explanation take into account that Mr. Kinsey had shouted at least once that Arnaldo had a toy truck and not a gun? (You have watched the video, aye?) If he has he misunderstood it, based on his confirmation bias. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2016, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-ok-the-police-were-trying-to-shoot-the-autistic-guy-they-just-hit-the-black-guy-by-accident/760672/57 "2016-07-24T03:08:31Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Does your acceptance of that explanation take into account that Mr. Kinsey had shouted at least once that Arnaldo had a toy truck and not a gun? (You have watched the video, aye?) Please note the subjunctive mood I used in my observation. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2016, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-ok-the-police-were-trying-to-shoot-the-autistic-guy-they-just-hit-the-black-guy-by-accident/760672/58 "2016-07-24T04:26:01Z")
Not even malice explains something has utterly fucked up as this was. Taking a wild ass stab at it, I think the officer panicked. Against all reason, he saw the good guy as a threat, and fired three shots (last I heard, three). So he shot to kill? Presumably, but missed. And then to put the toxic icing on the cyanide cake, he handcuffs the injured! good guy! The man has no weapon, no threat displayed, even engaging in reasoned conversation. “Why did you shoot me?”, a perfectly sensible question, even if it might have been his last. Doesn’t make sense, even as an act of malice. Act of pure evil, would have shot them both! At least some chance of saying the toy truck looked like a gun, and the perp was staring at his shoes in a threatening and aggressive manner! Anyway, just a guess, I think he panicked. In fear, he saw things that simply weren’t there. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2016, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-ok-the-police-were-trying-to-shoot-the-autistic-guy-they-just-hit-the-black-guy-by-accident/760672/59 "2016-07-24T05:36:24Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Please note the subjunctive mood I used in my observation. Noted. Now, let me ask you: does your acceptance of that explanation take into account that Mr. Kinsey had shouted at least once that Arnaldo had a toy truck and not a gun? And did you watch the video? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2016, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-ok-the-police-were-trying-to-shoot-the-autistic-guy-they-just-hit-the-black-guy-by-accident/760672/60 "2016-07-24T06:01:37Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > “I don’t know,” suggests that he did it, on purpose, and can’t articulate why he did it. I don’t know. I think it’s possible that Aledda just got too excited and started shooting (get your mind out of the gutter). Some people just get keyed up to a certain point and then they snap. I’ve seen it happen; when you’re in charge of a situation like this you have to watch your own people and make sure none of them are getting “twitchy”. In a case like that, Aledda honestly may not have known why he was shooting. Aledda has been identified as having four years as a police officer. But does anyone know if this was his first “hostage” situation? Let me emphasize I’m not saying this to excuse Aleddo. If he shot somebody without thinking, it’s just as wrong as if he shot somebody with malice aforethought. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-ok-the-police-were-trying-to-shoot-the-autistic-guy-they-just-hit-the-black-guy-by-accident/760672.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-ok-the-police-were-trying-to-shoot-the-autistic-guy-they-just-hit-the-black-guy-by-accident/760672.md?page=4)