# It's our lifestyle! (Man walks woman on leash in mall) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 27, 2015, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-our-lifestyle-man-walks-woman-on-leash-in-mall/720979 "2015-05-27T19:59:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e47c2d/32.png) [@Hershele\_Ostropoler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hershele_Ostropoler)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-our-lifestyle-man-walks-woman-on-leash-in-mall/720979/81 "2015-05-28T22:27:40Z")
> [@dracoi](#): > > For me, this fits squarely within the category of “Things you really shouldn’t do, but you have a right to anyway.” A category people are having increasing difficulty recognizing (or people who have difficulty recognizing it are increasingly in my orbit) > [@Bricker](#): > > But they live the lifestyle. For them, it IS a casual thing. They do it around the house, and they do it elsewhere too. I don’t buy that. They must have noticed the lack of people walking each other on leases in the mall no matter how little thought they give to doing it at home. I’m not saying they were wrong to do it\*, but they have to have known it would get a reaction, even if that wasn’t specifically the intent. \*Though I’m somewhat undecided on that, along the lines of what **BigT** said. Is this “sex”? Does it have the characteristics of sex that lead to the (social, if not legal) prohibition on “having sex” in public? I don’t se why anyone is obligated to pretend to have a normative relationship in public. Can people bring their RealDolls to the mall? Is this any worse than that? > [@Urbanredneck](#): > > It’s what is now “normal”. Better show pictures of the Folsom Street Fair in San Fransisco just to make sure. There’s an awful lot of air between “it’s normal” and “people shouldn’t do it” (as well as between “people mustn’t do it in public” and “it is necessary to explain it to small children in lurid detail”); I can disagree with the latter without having to embrace the former. (I know, I know.) Come to think of it, I don’t see the harm in kids finding out about Folsom. > [@Bricker](#): > > Today’s legal test for obscenity dates back to the 1973 Supreme Court decision _Miller v. California_. There are three prongs to the Miller test: > > [ol] > [li]Whether “the average person, applying contemporary community standards,” would find that the work, “taken as a whole,” appeals to “prurient interest”[/li][li]Whether the work depicts or describes, in a patently offensive way, sexual conduct specifically defined by the applicable state law[/li][li]Whether the work, 'taken as a whole," lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value[/ol][/li] > In my view, this fails on test #2: no state, so far as I am aware, captures fully-clothed persons wearing a leash and walking on all fours as sexual conduct. Don’t laws about child pornography in at least some jurisdictions say that nudity is not required? I realize that’s a different situation, but it means that it is accepted that someone can be doing something sexual while fully clothed. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-our-lifestyle-man-walks-woman-on-leash-in-mall/720979/82 "2015-05-28T23:18:24Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > “Some folks are really weird, Billy.” > > Doesn’t seem that difficult. As I suppose it would also be easy enough to pass by the _2 girls 1 cup_ girls and say, _“some folks have really weird tastes, Billy.”_? Is that really the kind of world you want to live in? You’d rather be exposed to repulsive behavior with no legal recourse in public areas typically regarded as family-safe areas just to protect…what, exactly? Freedom to be exceptionally repulsive in front of you and your kids? You don’t have to negate the constitution just to change some antiquated obscenity law that didn’t have the foresight to include treating people like beasts of burden or eating excrement in public. Tweak the law. Doesn’t seem that difficult. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-our-lifestyle-man-walks-woman-on-leash-in-mall/720979/83 "2015-05-28T23:23:09Z")
So you are encountering 2 girls 1 cup behaviour in public places? Because I do have a problem with legal remedies to things which do not happen. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-our-lifestyle-man-walks-woman-on-leash-in-mall/720979/84 "2015-05-28T23:33:32Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > So you are encountering 2 girls 1 cup behaviour in public places? Because I do have a problem with legal remedies to things which do not happen. Not yet. But an argument can be made that treating a woman like a dog in public is just as repulsive, if not more so, than ingesting excrement. Can’t the hypothetical be extended to include various fetishes on the spectra? ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-our-lifestyle-man-walks-woman-on-leash-in-mall/720979/85 "2015-05-28T23:41:46Z")
My response would be “Yawn. Two newbies trying to freakout the squares.” But, I agree with **Macca26** that it wasn’t necessarily sexual behavior. For the couple in question, the leash and collar are their normal. It is what they accept, want and are used to. Going without the leash and collar may actually cause them distress. I am not being naive. I think in fact I understand this better than most people reading this thread. I think what they did was and should remain legal. Banning every fetish would leave us incapable of doing anything. For example, I have a friend with a clown fetish. Do we ban all clowns? I think the mall would be within its rights to ask them to leave. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-our-lifestyle-man-walks-woman-on-leash-in-mall/720979/86 "2015-05-28T23:42:19Z")
Would we be having this identical coversation if the “dog” had been black? ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-our-lifestyle-man-walks-woman-on-leash-in-mall/720979/87 "2015-05-28T23:44:11Z")
> [@Tibby or Not Tibby](#): > > Not yet. But an argument can be made that treating a woman like a dog in public is just as repulsive, if not more so, than ingesting excrement. Can’t the hypothetical be extended to include various fetishes on the spectra? This is ridiculous. Carrying excrement into the mall would already be against mall rules. Further, the woman (and it ain’t always the woman who is the sub) in question WANTS to be treated like a dog. ETA **Scumpup** I fail to see what skin color has to do with this. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-our-lifestyle-man-walks-woman-on-leash-in-mall/720979/88 "2015-05-28T23:47:55Z")
I suspect if it had been a white man leading a black person around on a leash, the Dopers would be far less sanguine than when it is just two ugly white folks. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-our-lifestyle-man-walks-woman-on-leash-in-mall/720979/89 "2015-05-28T23:52:45Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > …Further, the woman (and it ain’t always the woman who is the sub) in question WANTS to be treated like a dog… So what? Do you think all the kids watching the woman in the mall will understand that she WANTS to be treated like a dog? ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-our-lifestyle-man-walks-woman-on-leash-in-mall/720979/90 "2015-05-28T23:53:42Z")
I’d only be uncomfortable if race was part of their dynamic. I feel confident in saying that most doms/dommes are colorblind. OTTOMH The only exception that leaps to mind is a group of Black Hebrews (They believe that Africans are the true Jews of the Bible and that an evil group of white Europeans has pulled a fast one on the world) who said that while they would keep white slaves, they would only have sex with other black people. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-our-lifestyle-man-walks-woman-on-leash-in-mall/720979/91 "2015-05-28T23:56:05Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > For example, I have a friend with a clown fetish. Do we ban all clowns? How about banning all clowns who walk around in the mall with visible erections? But, actually, I wouldn’t be opposed to banning all clowns, period. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-our-lifestyle-man-walks-woman-on-leash-in-mall/720979/92 "2015-05-28T23:56:53Z")
How could you, as some random shmoe in the mall, know what their “dynamic” is? You see two strangers. One is leading the other on a leash. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-our-lifestyle-man-walks-woman-on-leash-in-mall/720979/93 "2015-05-28T23:56:55Z")
**Tibby Or Not Tibby** Yes, I do. Younger kids will think it’s just adults playing dress up. Older kids will likely understand that it’s grown ups doing some weird sex thing. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-our-lifestyle-man-walks-woman-on-leash-in-mall/720979/94 "2015-05-28T23:57:53Z")
> [@Tibby or Not Tibby](#): > > How about banning all clowns who walk around in the mall with visible erections? > > But, actually, I wouldn’t be opposed to banning all clowns, period. You are, clearly, one of those anti-hunting killjoys. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2015, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-our-lifestyle-man-walks-woman-on-leash-in-mall/720979/95 "2015-05-28T23:59:25Z")
> [@Tibby or Not Tibby](#): > > How about banning all clowns who walk around in the mall with visible erections? > > But, actually, I wouldn’t be opposed to banning all clowns, period. First, visible erections are already banned in every mall I know of. Second, as an aspiring clown I want to know who stole your sense of fun ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2015, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-our-lifestyle-man-walks-woman-on-leash-in-mall/720979/96 "2015-05-29T00:11:28Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > You are, clearly, one of those anti-hunting killjoys. No, I approve hunting clowns. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2015, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-our-lifestyle-man-walks-woman-on-leash-in-mall/720979/97 "2015-05-29T00:13:56Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > First, visible erections are already banned in every mall I know of. But, are visible, yet fully draped erections illegal?.. **Bricker**! What’s the answer?? ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2015, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-our-lifestyle-man-walks-woman-on-leash-in-mall/720979/98 "2015-05-29T00:22:06Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > … > Second, as an aspiring clown I want to know who stole your sense of fun A clown stole my sense of fun, that’s who. A beady-eyed, whiskey-breathed, body-odored, puss-oozing, rancid toothed clown with big feet and a tiny hat stole my sense of humor many years ago. Why do you ask? ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2015, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-our-lifestyle-man-walks-woman-on-leash-in-mall/720979/99 "2015-05-29T00:25:18Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > I suspect if it had been a white man leading a black person around on a leash, the Dopers would be far less sanguine than when it is just two ugly white folks. Why? If its consensual who cares. I agree though that the mall should have the right to ask people to leave if their behavior is disrupting business. It is private property. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2015, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-our-lifestyle-man-walks-woman-on-leash-in-mall/720979/100 "2015-05-29T00:36:45Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > The problem with this kind of stuff is that its hard for me to imagine there isn’t any coercion going on. I feel the same about women claiming they freely wear burqas freely, its hard for me to take that seriously without looking at their culture and social pressure I agree that burqas carry an immense societal pressure. But in this leash case, the immense societal pressure is against the practice. This, combined with the woman’s assurance that she sought out someone with whom to behave thusly, suggests that her actions are not coerced. If this is insufficient, it seems to me you’re infantalizing anyone who practices this kind of lifestyle by refusing to accept their ability to freely consent to it. What evidence of freedom from coercion would satisfy you? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-our-lifestyle-man-walks-woman-on-leash-in-mall/720979.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-our-lifestyle-man-walks-woman-on-leash-in-mall/720979.md?page=6)