# It's sad to see racial prejudice alive and well in business and banking **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 7, 2011, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-sad-to-see-racial-prejudice-alive-and-well-in-business-and-banking/588207 "2011-07-07T17:32:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-sad-to-see-racial-prejudice-alive-and-well-in-business-and-banking/588207/62 "2011-07-08T15:38:20Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > Do I have this right? > > Guy comes in wanting to cash and $8,000+ check (a little unusual) > Guy’s account has been closed for previous overdraft (a bit suspicious) > Something looks a little odd about the bank check (teensy touch suspicious) > And when the teller calls for more information on the check, the patron… suddenly grabs it back and leaves (ULTRA INCREDIBLY SUSPICIOUS). 1. I would suspect that bank handles checks that size and larger every day. 2. maybe 3. There could not be anything odd looking about the check, only a teller who couldn’t properly identify a real check for his/her own bank. 4. I don’t think he _suddenly_ grabbed anything and left. He had been waiting around for quite some time, and finally had to go do something else before the end of the day. eta: > [@](#): > > After waiting for about 15 minutes, Njoku said he got impatient and told Chase he was leaving to do an important errand. By the time he got back, the bank was closed. Njoku said he called customer service and asked them what he should do. He says they told him to go back to the bank the next day to get his money. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-sad-to-see-racial-prejudice-alive-and-well-in-business-and-banking/588207/63 "2011-07-08T15:40:04Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > And when the teller calls for more information on the check, the patron… suddenly grabs it back and leaves (ULTRA INCREDIBLY SUSPICIOUS). He left the check and his ID at the bank. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-sad-to-see-racial-prejudice-alive-and-well-in-business-and-banking/588207/64 "2011-07-08T15:48:06Z")
I always think about how hard it must be to conduct actual, non-fraudulent business for people or businesses from Nigeria. Or people who appear to be from Nigeria or who just have African names (because let’s face it, Americans aren’t necessarily schooled on the different cultures of Africa). I guess the answer is “it’s hard.” ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-sad-to-see-racial-prejudice-alive-and-well-in-business-and-banking/588207/65 "2011-07-08T15:48:42Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > 1. I don’t think he _suddenly_ grabbed anything and left. He had been waiting around for quite some time, and finally had to go do something else before the end of the day. He didn’t grab anything, suddenly or otherwise. He left the check and his ID at the bank overnight. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-sad-to-see-racial-prejudice-alive-and-well-in-business-and-banking/588207/66 "2011-07-08T15:56:08Z")
> [@bup](#): > > \*Arresting \*him a day after he’d presented the check for cashing? > > The talk that \*\*RandMcNally \*\*got as a freshman? > > \*\*monstro \*\*being forced to watch Ice T’s acting? > > I think it’s fair to call those racist unless and until some huge piece of previously unavailable information comes to light. > > For comparison’s sake, I could see the assassination of Martin Luther King Jr. ‘not racist’ if it came to light that James Earl Ray was holding up some white guy and accidentally fired and MLK was just a bystander. > > And maybe **monstro** ’s experience was some hazing incident he misinterpreted. In **RandMcNally** ’s case, we may start with the assumption of racism because he reports that only the black students were given this talk. In **monstro** ’s story, as well, the target was solely the black audience. What information here allows us to make that leap? And for what it’s worth, I had a disturbingly similar experience at Riggs Bank (an old, now-defunct DC area bank). I had a certified check drawn on Riggs, given to me for the sale of a car. I went to a Riggs Branch to cash it, and ended up having to explain myself and my personal business to the teller, the branch manager, and the police officer they called. I did not assume racism – just stupidity and an inability to handle anything outside the norm. Here’s [an excellent example](http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2005-03-08/news/0503080089_1_bolesta-pole-baltimore-county) of that principle… no racism involved: > [@](#): > > PUT YOURSELF in Mike Bolesta’s place. On the morning of Feb. 20, he buys a new radio-CD player for his 17-year-old son Christopher’s car. He pays the $114 installation charge with 57 crisp new $2 bills, which, when last observed, were still considered legitimate currency in the United States proper. The $2 bills are Bolesta’s idea of payment, and his little comic protest, too. > > For this, Bolesta, Baltimore County resident, innocent citizen, owner of Capital City Student Tours, finds himself under arrest. > > Finds himself, in front of a store full of customers at the Best Buy on York Road in Lutherville, locked into handcuffs and leg irons. > > Finds himself transported to the Baltimore County lockup in Cockeysville, where he’s handcuffed to a pole for three hours while the U.S. Secret Service is called into the case. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-sad-to-see-racial-prejudice-alive-and-well-in-business-and-banking/588207/67 "2011-07-08T16:13:46Z")
**Bricker** , that’s a good point. I guess I’m just dumbfounded by RandRover’s > [@](#): > > This is why “racism” is still prevalent today–many people will look at a situation like this and think it’s automatically an example of racism. which implies real racism isn’t prevalent. It’s possible that this case isn’t racist, just stupidity. However, I think the fact that he came back the next day - so the bank employees had had a night to process this, and could have researched the check before the bank closed and after it reopened - and still had him arrested (not even “here’s your ID, we need to hold onto the check longer”) makes me lean strongly toward racism. It beggars belief that a white guy named Whitey W. White would have been arrested in the same situation. ---
**Author:** ![retterath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/919ad9/32.png) [@retterath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/retterath)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-sad-to-see-racial-prejudice-alive-and-well-in-business-and-banking/588207/68 "2011-07-08T16:25:36Z")
Don’t we mean Ice Cube, rather than Ice T? ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-sad-to-see-racial-prejudice-alive-and-well-in-business-and-banking/588207/69 "2011-07-08T16:32:11Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > 1. I would suspect that bank handles checks that size and larger every day. I used to be a Bank Teller for Chase, and they don’t cash normal checks, period, unless there are funds in the account to cover it. In other words, the don’t “cash” checks at all – they make a withdrawal and a deposit at the same time. I would explain this constantly, but customer’s didn’t care and would constantly ask to “cash” checks. The only time they would literally cash a check on a non-account holder, or one without sufficient funds to cover the check is if the check was a payroll check drawn on a specific list of employers that had a special arrangement with the bank, to cash them on specific designated days. This, however was a bank check, meaning the funds are guaranteed. Thus, it is possible to cash it, because the funds are guaranteed. However, this would generally be a rare request. Most tellers are not even authorized to cash a check that large, and probably don’t have enough in their till to cover it without visiting the vault. > [@](#): > > 1. There could not be anything odd looking about the check, only a teller who couldn’t properly identify a real check for his/her own bank. And how do you know that. Perhaps the check was issued from a HQ in another state, and did not have the normal routing information, or numbering system the teller was used to seeing. That’s odd enough for the teller, to check for more information before handing out 8 grand. She’ll be summarily terminated if she’s wrong. > [@](#): > > 1. I don’t think he _suddenly_ grabbed anything and left. He had been waiting around for quite some time, and finally had to go do something else before the end of the day. You must live a pleasant world of convenience if waiting in a bank for 15 minutes is “quite a long time.” And yes, saying you have an important errand and leaving your check at the bank, right as the teller is calling someone for more information, absolutely screams fraud. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-sad-to-see-racial-prejudice-alive-and-well-in-business-and-banking/588207/70 "2011-07-08T16:32:57Z")
> [@bup](#): > > **Bricker** , that’s a good point. I guess I’m just dumbfounded by RandRover’s > > which implies real racism isn’t prevalent. > > It’s possible that this case isn’t racist, just stupidity. However, I think the fact that he came back the next day - so the bank employees had had a night to process this, and could have researched the check before the bank closed and after it reopened - and still had him arrested (not even “here’s your ID, we need to hold onto the check longer”) makes me lean strongly toward racism. It beggars belief that a white guy named Whitey W. White would have been arrested in the same situation. Except that if we look a little longer, that premise falls apart. The bank ultimately did discover their error, the next day. This suggests that the problem was not racism, but simply inefficiency on the part of the bank. whose process of querying the bona fides of a check simply takes an inexplicably long time. I can’t imagine that Chase has a dual investigation system in which queries involving black customers are shunted to a different, slower system than queries involving white or Asian customers. It seems clear that the local branch submitted an inquiry, got a wrong answer or no answer at all, and proceeded with the assumption that the check was forged. Of course, I’d change my assessment in a heartbeat if the teller was unable to articulate what indicia aroused her suspicions, or if she indicated that her suspicions were triggered by the customer and not the check. (Although I will allow that racism and national origin are close cousins in these matters, I have a tad bit of sympathy for the teller who was reacting not to a black person but to a Nigerian, simply because Nigeria has made a name for itself in the scam industry. Not excusing anything, but a small mitigation…) ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-sad-to-see-racial-prejudice-alive-and-well-in-business-and-banking/588207/71 "2011-07-08T16:34:50Z")
> [@bup](#): > > It’s possible that this case isn’t racist, just stupidity. However, I think the fact that he came back the next day - so the bank employees had had a night to process this, and could have researched the check before the bank closed and after it reopened - and still had him arrested (not even “here’s your ID, we need to hold onto the check longer”) makes me lean strongly toward racism. It beggars belief that a white guy named Whitey W. White would have been arrested in the same situation. I agree. At this point, the situation really went off the rails. My previous post was just to point out that up until Njoku returned the next day, the envents unfolded according to bank policy and for very reasonable, objective reasons having nothing to do with race. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-sad-to-see-racial-prejudice-alive-and-well-in-business-and-banking/588207/72 "2011-07-08T16:39:22Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Except that if we look a little longer, that premise falls apart. The bank ultimately did discover their error, the next day. At which point, they _left a message_ with the police, saying “Sorry, our mistake.” I’d think they would have been a little more proactive in clearing this up. Like perhaps visiting the police department, seeing that he was released, bringing him back to the bank, giving him his money and apologizing profusely. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-sad-to-see-racial-prejudice-alive-and-well-in-business-and-banking/588207/73 "2011-07-08T17:02:15Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Except that if we look a little longer, that premise falls apart. The bank ultimately did discover their error, the next day. \*After \*they had him arrested and put in jail. That’s the point - the point where they had him arrested - where they presumably were still deciding whether the check was valid or not (presumably because they later found out it was valid), that I contend is almost certainly racist (or, I’ll allow as slightly different, as you point out, nation-of-originist), and would not happen to a melatonin-challenged American. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-sad-to-see-racial-prejudice-alive-and-well-in-business-and-banking/588207/74 "2011-07-08T17:10:48Z")
“Captain, we’ve noticed that every single person who has been charged with a criminal offense in your precinct in the last ten years has been a black male, even though I can see some white children setting fire to the building across the street right this very second; can you explain this trend?” “Ah, I see, I’ve made a mistake!” Bank management “discovering their error” the next day does nothing to suggest that the problem wasn’t racism. How on earth does that work? The guy’s in jail. There is absolutely no reason for him to be in jail. What is the bank going to do, other than discover that there’s been some sort of error? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-sad-to-see-racial-prejudice-alive-and-well-in-business-and-banking/588207/75 "2011-07-08T17:21:46Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > I love how some people automatically think this incident is an example of racism. In his interview with KING-TV, he said of the teller, “She asked me what I did for a living. Asked me where I got the check from, looked me up and down—like ‘you just bought a house in Auburn, really?’ She didn’t believe that.” If this is true, that sounds pretty racist. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-sad-to-see-racial-prejudice-alive-and-well-in-business-and-banking/588207/76 "2011-07-08T17:31:00Z")
Oh really, DF? Do you even know the race of the teller? ---
**Author:** ![Bloodless\_Turnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@Bloodless\_Turnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bloodless_Turnip)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-sad-to-see-racial-prejudice-alive-and-well-in-business-and-banking/588207/77 "2011-07-08T17:34:13Z")
> [@](#): > > **like** ‘you just bought a house in Auburn, really?’ She didn’t believe that." This was his feeling, not what the teller actually said. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-sad-to-see-racial-prejudice-alive-and-well-in-business-and-banking/588207/78 "2011-07-08T17:37:47Z")
Yes, odds are the teller, who erroneously sent a guy to god-damned jail because she figured he must be a criminal rather than having legitimate business to transact, where that guy was black, was also black. That is the way it happens most commonly. Not that it matters what race she was. Maybe she was from another planet. It’s only from a very paranoid, very white point of view that there being a white person involved is the most important thing. It’s racist to assume a guy’s defrauding you based on his race, whether he’s the same race as you or not. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-sad-to-see-racial-prejudice-alive-and-well-in-business-and-banking/588207/79 "2011-07-08T17:40:07Z")
Years ago I was in a situation where it looked to the bank like I might be trying to pull a fast one on a bank with a shady check. Now, keep in mind I had used that very bank for 6 years, and during that whole time a fairly nice salary of mine was flowing through it. Had a decent savings account balance, no overdrafts, same address the whole time, small loans paid off on/ahead of time. My credit was probably damn good too. And this wasnt some giant mega bank. It was credit union that had its main office on the military base and one or two branches right outside the base in the local small town. The check was from one of the major local military/industrial employers (and back then it was harder to forge checks). The employer I had WORKED for all those years and deposited checks from. Even my drivers liscense was renewed in that little town when I moved there and had the adress of where I had lived the whole time and they mailed their bank statements too. Hell, I even entered the office well/professionally dressed, am a standard white male towards the better side of good looking, fairly calm and well spoken (with just a hint of southern so I blended in), and generally easy going when business snafus come up. So, local major employer gives me a special check for a few thousand on a Friday. Leaving a little early that day I decide to swing by and deposit it. Turns out those special checks were drawn from an account they only kept a minimal amount of money in at any given time. Well, the admin people had forgot to transfer enough money. So, when I try to deposit it in person, it bounces. I wasn’t upset with either the bank or the company and just told em I’d leave, get it straightend out monday, and come back. Very soon I got the distinct impression that they REALLY did not want me to leave. I reluctantly stayed for a few hours till they got it all straightened out. Good thing some admin folks in the company were still at work when this went down. In hindsight I think they might have thrown me in the pokey if I had insisted on leaving before it got cleared up. So, yeah, this guy might have been a victim of racism. But I can certainly imagine its just/mostly being a case of bad circumstances, Big Bank paranoia with hint of fuck the little guy thrown in, and just general incompetence all around. ---
**Author:** ![LurkerInNJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ed655f/32.png) [@LurkerInNJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkerInNJ)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-sad-to-see-racial-prejudice-alive-and-well-in-business-and-banking/588207/80 "2011-07-08T17:57:08Z")
> [@Larry\_Mudd](#): > > I don’t see that it has been mentioned at all, but Mr. Njoku is not merely dark-skinned, he is ethnically Nigerian. I think there are likely many good people, normally disapproving of racism, who might be led into similar error if a Nigerian fella presented them with a cashier’s cheque which varied substantially in its appearance from their expectation, insisting that they walk out the door with $8,463.21 in cash, when the last thing that would likely be showing on his record was that his account was closed for being substantially overdrawn. > > Personally, if my last contact with a financial institution was screwing up my account to the point that they closed it and passed my debt on to a collections agency, I wouldn’t really have _any_ expectation of walking back in with a cashier’s cheque and walking out the door with $8,463.21 in cash. That’s just not going to happen, no matter what color you are. Take that bad boy to some other bank (that doesn’t already honestly come by a healthy mistrust of you,) deposit it, and bob’s your uncle. That’s my take on the situation also. A Nigerian walks into a bank with a cashier’s cheque is like the first line of a joke. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-sad-to-see-racial-prejudice-alive-and-well-in-business-and-banking/588207/81 "2011-07-08T18:35:24Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > Yes, odds are the teller, who erroneously sent a guy to god-damned jail because she figured he must be a criminal rather than having legitimate business to transact, where that guy was black, was also black. That is the way it happens most commonly. > > Not that it matters what race she was. Maybe she was from another planet. It’s only from a very paranoid, very white point of view that there being a white person involved is the most important thing. It’s racist to assume a guy’s defrauding you based on his race, whether he’s the same race as you or not. You are proving my point–you continue to simply assume that the bank treated this man badly solely based on his race. So, of course you conclude that this incident shows that racism is alive and well–that’s the assumption through which you view the incident. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-sad-to-see-racial-prejudice-alive-and-well-in-business-and-banking/588207.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-sad-to-see-racial-prejudice-alive-and-well-in-business-and-banking/588207.md?page=5)