# It's still not safe to be a woman. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 11, 2003, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-still-not-safe-to-be-a-woman/160530 "2003-03-11T12:18:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Skeptico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19b73/32.png) [@Skeptico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skeptico)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2003, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-still-not-safe-to-be-a-woman/160530/41 "2003-03-11T16:15:16Z")
The guy was an idiot. Here’s a tip straight to the guys from the Feynman playbook: Never buy a drink to a woman until after you’ve got some! [Conversely, if you buy a drink BEFORE hand then you’re NEVER going to get any!] Ladies, what do you think ? ---
**Author:** ![CRorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CRorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CRorex)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2003, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-still-not-safe-to-be-a-woman/160530/42 "2003-03-11T16:15:44Z")
This sums up the exact reason why when I go to a bar for drinks I don’t speak to anyone but the waitress ---
**Author:** ![cuauhtemoc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecb155/32.png) [@cuauhtemoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cuauhtemoc)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2003, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-still-not-safe-to-be-a-woman/160530/43 "2003-03-11T16:16:29Z")
Even if **chula** made some mistakes, she has a right to complain. The guy treated her rudely, and she felt threatened. What’s so hard to understand about that? ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2003, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-still-not-safe-to-be-a-woman/160530/44 "2003-03-11T16:17:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Skeptico \* > \*\*The guy was an idiot. > > Here’s a tip straight to the guys from the Feynman playbook: > > Never buy a drink to a woman until after you’ve got some! > > [Conversely, if you buy a drink BEFORE hand then you’re NEVER going to get any!] > > Ladies, what do you think ? \*\* And that concludes this episode of “Unfrozen Caveman Playboy.” ---
**Author:** ![Futile\_Gesture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f05b48/32.png) [@Futile\_Gesture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Futile_Gesture)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2003, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-still-not-safe-to-be-a-woman/160530/45 "2003-03-11T16:24:53Z")
I’m with **Jack Batty** on this one. Let’s just drop the whole sexual politics angle, shall we? This is a dumb tale of two people who got drunk and acted like dumb, drunk people. No-one should feel obliged to apologise for either of them on behalf of anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Toaster52](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/50afbb/32.png) [@Toaster52](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toaster52)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2003, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-still-not-safe-to-be-a-woman/160530/46 "2003-03-11T16:25:03Z")
**cowgirl** , we seem to be talking about two different things. _“If someone buys you drinks, you are obliged to go home with him, or at the very least, put up with his boorish behaviour?”_ Of course not!!! Neither to go home with nor put up with his behavior. BUT…you aren’t obliged to put up with his behavior **if HE initiates the contact**. If, however, YOU initiate the contact then you have no leg to stand on. And as **chula** said: _“I ask for a cigarette, and he doesn’t realize that I’m doing him a favor at this point.”_ SHE initiated contact AFTER he acted like an asshole. REPEAT: _this does NOT condone HIS behavior_. But for crying out loud, if she KNOWS he’s a jerk…why initiate ANY further contact with him, even eye contact!!! ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2003, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-still-not-safe-to-be-a-woman/160530/47 "2003-03-11T16:29:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cuauhtemoc \* > \*\*Even if **chula** made some mistakes, she has a right to complain. The guy treated her rudely, and she felt threatened. What’s so hard to understand about that? \*\* > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by chula_ > Thinking that someone like the bartender would fucking allow him to get away with it. When both of us are bigger than him and either one of us could take him out. And neither one of us would fucking think twice about it. I was a bit disappointed when he wasn’t around when we left. Funny though, we thought the coast was clear, but we spied him waiting at the corner diner. But that was it. Fucking loser. Thinks he can intimidate women because we’re physically weaker than him. But funny, because in this case we weren’t. > > Damn, I was wishing we would have had the chance. I see no sense of being threatened here. I see someone spoiling for a fight. ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2003, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-still-not-safe-to-be-a-woman/160530/48 "2003-03-11T16:46:23Z")
she has a right to complain, and we have a right to point out how she could have avoided some of the said misery. ---
**Author:** ![Judith\_Prietht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b19c9b/32.png) [@Judith\_Prietht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Judith_Prietht)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2003, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-still-not-safe-to-be-a-woman/160530/49 "2003-03-11T17:09:09Z")
Any man, no matter how much of a dipshit he may be, is free to buy a drink for whomever strikes his fancy at the local watering hole. It is, however, up to the other party to decide to accept that drink, and invite any further social interaction. In this situation, I think mistakes were made on both sides. **chula** , I’m sorry you had such a shitty encounter with what sounds like a grand asshole, but I hope you learn something from it. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2003, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-still-not-safe-to-be-a-woman/160530/50 "2003-03-11T17:32:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by friedo \* > \*\*I’m confused. I thought in this context “gender” and “sex” were synonymous. \*\* Kinda. And **London\_Calling** is wrong. Nouns have gender. People have sex. Well, some people. At any rate, the correct word in this case is, in fact, sex. An alternative meaning of the word gender is in fact sex, so it is hardly a barbarism, but correcting **Toffe** is erroneous. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2003, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-still-not-safe-to-be-a-woman/160530/51 "2003-03-11T17:44:33Z")
Well **Chula** , I sympathize. You deserve to be able to go out to a bar without ending up physically threatened. And this is a good warning to women everywhere. Often men with the intent to do evil will initiate conversation with their intended victim to see if she plays along or not. If somebody is creeping you out, do not play nice! Do not put up with it! That will mark you as an easy victim. Trust your gut feelings. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2003, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-still-not-safe-to-be-a-woman/160530/52 "2003-03-11T17:49:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by chula \* > **Later the girls leave and it’s just him, me, and my friends. I ask for a cigarette, and he doesn’t realize that I’m doing him a favor at this point. He can offer me a cigarette without wounding his pride and all is well.** You know, most of the women I know who think a guy at a bar is a nut (like you apparently did of this guy) avoid him like the plague. You tried to do him a favor by asking him for a cigarette. I applaud thee. ---
**Author:** ![Consuela\_Bobuela](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ee7513/32.png) [@Consuela\_Bobuela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Consuela_Bobuela)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2003, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-still-not-safe-to-be-a-woman/160530/53 "2003-03-11T19:21:04Z")
When I was single and going to clubs, I encountered many assholes like Chula described. I did not, however, let them buy me drinks or bum smokes from them. I would tell them I was with my friends and did not wish to be bothered. They usually got the message. I would still like to hear from Chula why she continued to accept drinks from this man and why when he left for “greener pastures” she did not just ignore his ass and count herself lucky to be rid of him. Why, oh why did you ask him for a cigarette not once but twice?? ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2003, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-still-not-safe-to-be-a-woman/160530/54 "2003-03-11T19:53:06Z")
If John Steinbeck wrote this novel, he would have called it “Of Bar Flies and Drunks”. There wasn’t a sober person in the place and there was Plenty of Stupidity to go around. Yes, the guy described was an Unmitigated Asshole. But I don’t see Chula having clean hands either. Either way, she can solve any future problem or issue in 12 easy steps. ---
**Author:** ![Consuela\_Bobuela](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ee7513/32.png) [@Consuela\_Bobuela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Consuela_Bobuela)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2003, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-still-not-safe-to-be-a-woman/160530/55 "2003-03-11T20:10:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by quietman1920 \* > \*\*If John Steinbeck wrote this novel, he would have called it > “Of Bar Flies and Drunks”. There wasn’t a sober person in the place and there was Plenty of Stupidity to go around. Yes, the guy described was an Unmitigated Asshole. But I don’t see Chula having clean hands either. > > Either way, she can solve any future problem or issue in 12 easy steps. \*\* Perhaps the book should be written by Charles Bukowski. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Tusculan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecd19e/32.png) [@Tusculan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tusculan)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2003, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-still-not-safe-to-be-a-woman/160530/56 "2003-03-11T20:15:11Z")
If I may venture an interpretation of what **Chula** meant, saying she was doing him a favor when asking for a cigarette the second time (she partly said so herself): she was trying to smooth out the previous harshness between them by establishing normal contact again. She gave the guy a chance to show that he still had a normal sense of politeness, after his previous misbehaviour. That doesn’t mean she was coming on to him, or gave him an opening for a second groping, only to get back to the level of two civilized adults in a bar. I know, you could also say that she should have steered clear from him, and you can also say that she was just trying to ‘use’ him as a source of cigarettes. But giving him a second chance for proving himself to be a decent human being is in itself not bad. Or am I overinterpreting here? ---
**Author:** ![Flutterby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Flutterby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flutterby)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2003, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-still-not-safe-to-be-a-woman/160530/57 "2003-03-11T20:27:46Z")
That _may_ have been what she was doing TTT, but I feel she shouldn’t have all the same. If he was an asshole and they couldn’t interact as two decent, if drunk, adults then she should have just left him alone. As he should have as well. When I go out to bars it’s usually with my roomies. We all buy each other drinks and only once have I had a guy buy me a drink. He was sweet(though drunk), we talked but nothing came of it. A guy buying a chick a drink shouldn’t count as a contract. But I also think women shouldn’t go out expecting guys to buy them drinks. If it happens, it happens, but don’t expect to get shitfaced on other people’s tabs. ---
**Author:** ![EasyPhil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@EasyPhil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EasyPhil)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2003, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-still-not-safe-to-be-a-woman/160530/58 "2003-03-12T00:14:22Z")
**Chula** , you should have put your foot in his ass, but you might have had to file a police report afterwards, so good move on your part. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2003, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-still-not-safe-to-be-a-woman/160530/59 "2003-03-12T00:28:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TTT \* > \*\*Or am I overinterpreting here? \*\* **TTT** , I think you are. If I were in a bar and a woman called me a cocksucker (closest I could think of as a male equivilant of “whore”), I’d just steer clear. I wouldn’t try to reopen the lines of communication to get things back to the level of civilized adults. But that’s just me. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2003, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-still-not-safe-to-be-a-woman/160530/60 "2003-03-12T02:42:19Z")
Before I learned better, I found myself in situations where I was **screaming** “MOTHERFUCKER, LEAVE ME ALONE!! GO AWAY!! I DON’T WANT TO SEE YOUR FACE AGAIN!!” and the asshole would keep standing there, swaying and mumbling, “You know, I don’t think you like me…” So I understand **chula** ’s frustration, up to a point. But I sure as fuck didn’t ask these dickdrips for a cigarette. Perhaps you could try something I used to do. When he starts touching you (leg, shoulder, whatever), go limp. He’ll lean on you more heavily. That’s when you push back, **hard**. He’ll be knocked off balance, hopefully onto his drunk ass, and it won’t count as assault. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-still-not-safe-to-be-a-woman/160530.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-still-not-safe-to-be-a-woman/160530.md?page=4)