# It's that time again. We now have a \[few\] cloned human embryo(s). **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 30, 2003, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-that-time-again-we-now-have-a-few-cloned-human-embryo-s/221743 "2003-12-30T11:13:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 3\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2004, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-that-time-again-we-now-have-a-few-cloned-human-embryo-s/221743/61 "2004-01-05T23:31:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by WinstonSmith \* > **Mangetout** I still don’t think the train / gun / material etc. analogy is any good. A more relevant analogy would be something like claiming everybody should have the right to operate on their children, or administer drugs on them, or reprogram their psyche. I’m sure you’d actually be right about the inadequacy of any analogy you catch me using; for the life of me, I can’t understand why I keep on resorting to analogies when they repeatedly so miserably fail to communicate my thoughts. However, I think your suggested analogy is also deeply flawed too; we’re not talking about children here, we’re talking about zygotes. > [@](#): > > \*\*Anyway you now seem to concentrate on research. Personal, I have no special objection against research into cloning techniques. It’s the implementations of said techniques I find highly suspect. \*\*Then we agree? - we allow the research to continue until someone suggests an implementation? > [@](#): > > **I also think things like _“[…]speculative fears of the largely unqualified public.”_ is very dangerous. The last thing we want is to turn over our democracy to experts. If the public is unqualified, it needs to be educated not hoodwinked or coerced. (or we’ll give you the Butlerian Jihad! 🙂 )** I must admit, I had grave reservations about posting that phrase, but are you sure about the democracy bit? Democracy (at least as far as I understand it) doesn’t consist of allowing the public to dictate every detail of policy and action. ---
**Author:** ![far\_born](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5e9695/32.png) [@far\_born](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/far_born)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2004, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-that-time-again-we-now-have-a-few-cloned-human-embryo-s/221743/62 "2004-01-06T05:47:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mangetout \* > well, you could… but then wasn’t it you that took me to task about what you felt to be inadequate comparisons? How does Russian roulette compare to scientific research? It wasn’t a comparison so much as a demonstration. I wasn’t trying to equate Russian roullette with scientific research. Simply passing off someones objections as childlike (summing them up as “it’s scary”) does not **demonstrate** that the objections were so. > [@](#): > > I don’t believe there necessarily _is_ any burden of proof here. Great. So make a positive case. > [@](#): > > Potential for abuse is just that - potential I have a feeling this means quite a bit to you, but it doesn’t seem to say very much to me. Do you mean that the potential is likely to remain only a potential? Please be more explicit and explain **why** your assessment of the future is more sound. > [@](#): > > Of course it is important that science acts in a responsible and ethical way, but it should not be held ransom to the speculative fears of the largely unqualified public. Yet ethics are in the realm of the public and scientists are not the final arbiters of ethics (nor should they be). Do you wish to make the case that opposition to cloning simply represents a knowledge gap? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2004, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-that-time-again-we-now-have-a-few-cloned-human-embryo-s/221743/63 "2004-01-06T08:53:40Z")
This is a waste of time; I said I don’t think there is necessarily a burden of proof, meaning (as I have repeatedly said)that I don’t feel it is _necessary_ to justify research by speculating about possible future benefits. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-that-time-again-we-now-have-a-few-cloned-human-embryo-s/221743.md?page=3)