# It's the economy stupid **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 21, 2023, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-the-economy-stupid/988866 "2023-08-21T15:08:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2023, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-the-economy-stupid/988866/241 "2023-12-28T18:03:14Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Milk is still $5.49 for 4L here Where’s _here_ again? Also, here we don’t buy milk in 'L’s. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2023, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-the-economy-stupid/988866/242 "2023-12-28T18:04:24Z")
That’s a valid point. Both sides love deficits, they just achieve tyem in different ways. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2023, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-the-economy-stupid/988866/243 "2023-12-28T18:04:41Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Both sides love deficits, they just achieve tyem in different ways. That’s… Sadly true. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2023, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-the-economy-stupid/988866/244 "2023-12-28T18:13:41Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > What you are losing in 2023 due to high debt is $659 billion in interest payments that could have been used for other things. And also crowding out of capital markets by government debt drives up interest rates. I’m pretty sure we’re not going to stop making payments on that debt. The best we can do is to not vote for the people and policies that ran up that debt., lest they make the problem even worse going forward. > [@Atamasama](#): > > > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > > > Both sides love deficits, they just achieve tyem in different ways. > > That’s… Sadly true. I don’t think it’s true. Democrats have lowered deficits; not every year they’ve been in power, and they don’t zero them out instantly. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2023, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-the-economy-stupid/988866/245 "2023-12-28T18:18:21Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Both sides love deficits, they just achieve tyem in different ways. > [@Atamasama](#): > > That’s… Sadly true. Except that the data show very clearly that this is NOT true. It’s a Republican talking point that sounds truthy, but is absolutely false. Democrat administrations have consistently been correlated with lower federal budget deficits for at least 50 years. I’m not going to bother to _keep_ citing the evidence, only for @Sam_Stone to ignore it and come back with the same uncited bullshit talking points. The data are linked upthread. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2023, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-the-economy-stupid/988866/246 "2023-12-28T18:20:18Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Maybe for some. Milk is still $5.49 for 4L here, an all-time high. Two years ago it was $3.49. Huh. And here I thought it was Trudeau who was personally responsible for all of the inflation in Alberta. Turns out it was Biden all along! Or are the two of them scheming together? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2023, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-the-economy-stupid/988866/247 "2023-12-28T18:39:37Z")
Both of them did exactly the same thing: Spend huge gobs of printed money to pay people to stay locked down. Now we’re all paying the price. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2023, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-the-economy-stupid/988866/248 "2023-12-28T18:48:16Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > I don’t think it’s true. Democrats have lowered deficits; not every year they’ve been in power, and they don’t zero them out instantly. > [@Riemann](#): > > Except that the data show very clearly that this is NOT true. It’s a Republican talking point that sounds truthy, but is absolutely false. Democrat administrations have consistently been correlated with lower federal budget deficits for at least 50 years. In general yes. Clinton even had a balanced budget, and there were surpluses from 1998-2001. I meant that either side tends to disappoint in this regard. But Democrats overall do a **much** better job. And that’s not an opinion, that’s by the numbers. If you look at recent history, it’s hard to pass judgement on either side because Covid screwed everything up. > **[U.S. Presidents With the Largest Budget Deficits](https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/030515/which-united-states-presidents-have-run-largest-budget-deficits.asp)** > > Here is a look at which presidents ran the largest federal budget deficits in U.S. history and why, from World War I through President Biden's administration. Also interesting that the largest deficits in US history included both the Trump and Obama administrations. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2023, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-the-economy-stupid/988866/249 "2023-12-28T18:57:49Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I’m not clear if the wage spike was due to low income workers not being counted, or if the low workers were counted, including their pandemic benefits. Pandemic benefits aren’t wages. The graph you posted doesn’t back up your claims, and in fact, is not at all a reason why people might feel bad about the economy now. I find it unlikely that legions of low-wage service workers look back to the shutdown of all of their jobs with any sort of nostalgia. I’m no longer interested in refuting your claims with cites and your cites with explanations. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2023, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-the-economy-stupid/988866/250 "2023-12-28T19:24:52Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Both of them did exactly the same thing: Spend huge gobs of printed money to pay people to stay locked down. Now we’re all paying the price. That was quite the feat on Biden’s part, since Trump was President during the lockdown stage of the pandemic. FWIW, I wasn’t in favor of stimulus payments to people whose employment status wasn’t impacted by the pandemic, but most people suck and money for all was a very popular bipartisan position. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2023, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-the-economy-stupid/988866/251 "2023-12-28T19:29:50Z")
The Derp State strikes again, Ann! ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2023, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-the-economy-stupid/988866/252 "2023-12-28T19:54:43Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Both of them did exactly the same thing: Spend huge gobs of printed money to pay people to stay locked down. Now we’re all paying the price. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Both of them did exactly the same thing: Spend huge gobs of printed money to pay people to stay locked down. Now we’re all paying the price. Check out Canada’s supply management system, and Poillievre’s recent vote on that. Spending gobs of printed money did not make your milk price go up. This is a fantasy. Please explain how Biden caused the price of milk to go up in Edmonton. I’ll take the answer off the air. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2023, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-the-economy-stupid/988866/253 "2023-12-28T20:06:57Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > FWIW, I wasn’t in favor of stimulus payments to people whose employment status wasn’t impacted by the pandemic, but most people suck and money for all was a very popular bipartisan position. I can understand that viewpoint, but the fact was that means-testing the stimulus would take more time, and negotiation, and time, and then some more negotiation, probably a bit more time, and then 20% of the population is homeless before anything happens. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2023, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-the-economy-stupid/988866/254 "2023-12-28T20:28:01Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > That was quite the feat on Biden’s part, since Trump was President during the lockdown stage of the pandemic. I said Canada and the U.S, not Dems vs Republicans. And I’m quite aware of who started the lockdowns. I’ve complained about Trump and Trudeau plenty. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2023, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-the-economy-stupid/988866/255 "2023-12-28T21:14:19Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Huh. And here I thought it was Trudeau who was personally responsible for all of the inflation in Alberta. Turns out it was Biden all along! > Or are the two of them scheming together? > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Both of them did exactly the same thing: Spend huge gobs of printed money to pay people to stay locked down. Now we’re all paying the price. I must have missed where you clarified you were talking about the US and Canada, given the post you were responding to specifically named Trudeau and Biden. Could you point it out to me? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2023, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-the-economy-stupid/988866/256 "2023-12-28T21:18:20Z")
You noticed that too… ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2023, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-the-economy-stupid/988866/257 "2023-12-28T21:55:24Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Maybe for some. Milk is still $5.49 for 4L here, an all-time high. I just checked online, and it is $2.69 here in CA, and CA has fairly high prices. You are in Canada, no? What does The American economy have to do with prices in Canada, in Canadian dollars? I know the USA and Canadian economy are intertwined to an extent, but… ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2023, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-the-economy-stupid/988866/258 "2023-12-28T23:09:51Z")
Canada has a milk cartel and import limits. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2023, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-the-economy-stupid/988866/259 "2023-12-28T23:27:42Z")
Artificially limiting supply and then complaining about the free market? Say it ain’t so! ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2023, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-the-economy-stupid/988866/260 "2023-12-28T23:29:06Z")
Well I have no idea if the people supporting the limiting are doing the complaining. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-the-economy-stupid/988866.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-the-economy-stupid/988866.md?page=14)