# It's the economy stupid **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 21, 2023, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-the-economy-stupid/988866 "2023-08-21T15:08:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2023, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-the-economy-stupid/988866/101 "2023-11-20T23:46:09Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Whatever metrics they use to gauge how the economy is doing mean fuck all to regular people This is false. Real wages are up since before the pandemic, and hourly wages (regular people) are up more than others. > [@DigitalC](#): > > People who can’t afford rent, gas and groceries, much less things like healthcare or home ownership are not going to give a rats ass about GDP or unemployment rates or the DOW. Nothing to do with GDP or the Dow. Real wages are up and unemployment rates are down, job mobility is up, job security is up. It’s true that housing is much less affordable with the increase in interest rates, though. Why you think that “regular people” wouldn’t care about unemployment rates is a mystery. I’ve already gone down the path of countering feelings and impressions with cites, so I guess I’ll stop there. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2023, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-the-economy-stupid/988866/102 "2023-11-20T23:48:38Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > Why you think that “regular people” wouldn’t care about unemployment rates is a mystery. Having a job is not the goal, being able to afford to live your life through that job is. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2023, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-the-economy-stupid/988866/103 "2023-11-21T00:19:41Z")
I agree, and rising real wages help you afford to live your life. Luckily, real wages have risen since 2019, and hourly wages raised more than the average. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2023, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-the-economy-stupid/988866/104 "2023-11-21T00:21:49Z")
Sure, so the economy is not doing quite as horrible as it was. That doesn’t make it good. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2023, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-the-economy-stupid/988866/105 "2023-11-21T00:27:53Z")
I’m not sure how to respond to this. You claimed that people can’t afford stuff, but real wages are higher than they were in 2019, so things are more affordable. Unemployment is near record lows, so that’s a sign of a good economy. Union actions have been effective, people can change jobs, and are buying things. Can you bring some kind of cite or something? Or, should I give up on this exchange? ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2023, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-the-economy-stupid/988866/106 "2023-11-21T00:45:03Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > I’m not sure how to respond to this. You claimed that people can’t afford stuff, but real wages are higher than they were in 2019, so things are more affordable. I’m not sure why you think one thing counters the other. People couldn’t afford things in 2019 either. > [@RitterSport](#): > > Unemployment is near record lows, so that’s a sign of a good economy. It’s not. Working your ass off to not be able to afford to live is WORSE than not being able to afford to live without a job. At least one of them has hope that they can find a solution. > [@RitterSport](#): > > Union actions have been effective, people can change jobs, and are buying things. That’s great I guess but none of those things mean anything to most people. > [@RitterSport](#): > > Can you bring some kind of cite or something? Or, should I give up on this exchange? I don’t think we are going to agree. When individual people think about the economy they are always going to think how THEY SPECIFICALLY are doing. Your cites mean nothing to anyone who is struggling, period. If most people are struggling most people are going to think the economy is bad. People are struggling, the economy is doing horribly. Telling people who are struggling how great everything is just pisses them off and we need to cut that shit out. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2023, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-the-economy-stupid/988866/107 "2023-11-21T00:49:52Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > When individual people think about the economy they are always going to think how THEY SPECIFICALLY are doing. People SPECIFICALLY say that they are doing well, and act as if they’re doing well. They think it’s other people who are struggling. They’re spending like they’re doing well, traveling, changing jobs, etc. > [@DigitalC](#): > > I’m not sure why you think one thing counters the other. People couldn’t afford things in 2019 either. People think the economy is worse now than in 2019. Anyway, I can’t argue against vague feelings and impressions, so I guess I’m done here. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2023, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-the-economy-stupid/988866/108 "2023-11-21T01:03:43Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > People believe the economy is terrible because it IS. Whatever metrics they use to gauge how the economy is doing mean fuck all to regular people. People who can’t afford rent, gas and groceries, much less things like healthcare or home ownership are not going to give a rats ass about GDP or unemployment rates or the DOW. Technically, one significant source of inflation is success by Trump and Biden at combating offshoring and visa workers. Shrinking income disparity in the US and buying Made in America are both just alternate phrases for inflation. But, likewise, that means lower unemployment and higher wages. > **[US Monthly Earnings, 2006 – 2023 | CEIC Data](https://www.ceicdata.com/en/indicator/united-states/monthly-earnings)** > > US Monthly Earnings stood at 4,665 USD in Oct 2023, compared with the previous figure of 4,669 USD in Sep 2023. If you look at the 10 year view, there’s a notable jump in early 2020 and the general slope tilts a bit steeper. And we’re at the lowest unemployment rate since 1969: [https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000](https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000) The workers got what they wanted. If they’re not happy about it, because it means inflation, then I don’t know what to tell them. I’m sure there’s some businessman who’d be quite happy to move back to manufacturing in Vietnam. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2023, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-the-economy-stupid/988866/109 "2023-11-21T01:24:20Z")
This is why the auto workers went on strike. The CEO got a 40 percent raise. They did not. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2023, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-the-economy-stupid/988866/110 "2023-11-21T01:45:40Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > When individual people think about the economy they are always going to think how THEY SPECIFICALLY are doing. Your cites mean nothing to anyone who is struggling, period. But but… his cites show that FEWER PEOPLE should be struggling financially. So this is good, yes? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2023, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-the-economy-stupid/988866/111 "2023-11-21T01:48:14Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > They think it’s other people who are struggling. Exactly. And why do they think this? Because they are being inundated with media (including as we read earlier, sports radio) that “people are struggling”. With no evidence. Just assertions from media who are trying to talk down the economy for partisan political reasons ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2023, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-the-economy-stupid/988866/112 "2023-11-21T01:50:16Z")
I think this thread is a great illustration about how some people feel like the economy is doing, in the face of the actual economy. As the OP said, and I agree, this perception is a problem for the Biden administration. I’m sure they’re hoping this all changes by next year. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2023, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-the-economy-stupid/988866/113 "2023-11-21T01:56:48Z")
When CEOs of companies that were only a few years ago bailed out by the taxpayers, to avoid the companies collapse, are now receiving 40 percent raises, the economy must be kicking ass, right? I mean, otherwise, where would that money be coming from? 🤔 ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2023, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-the-economy-stupid/988866/114 "2023-11-21T01:59:32Z")
Without trying to make this personal, @DigitalC’s point seems to be that the working poor are still working poor. The danger, and this can and does happen to some degree in nearly every election, is folks vote for the other guy solely to register dissatisfaction with the current guy. With the result that they vote out the team that’s trying at least a little to improve the lot of the working poor, and vote in the team that’s actively trying to stand on the working poor’s collective neck. Then 4 years later they vote the other way. Leaving the good guys to spend 4 years trying to undo the damage of the last 4 years, leaving no space and time to actually improve matters. It’s a policy see-saw centered on the _status quo_ at best. Just voting for the other guy isn’t enough. You have to vote for the team that has some hope of improving your situation and has no plans to make your situation worse. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2023, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-the-economy-stupid/988866/115 "2023-11-21T02:08:29Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > As the OP said, and I agree, this perception is a problem for the Biden administration. I’m sure they’re hoping this all changes by next year. Realistically, the only thing that matters is the perception in the 2-6 weeks leading up to election day. Caring about the economy right now isn’t meaningful. I’d expect that Biden is aware of that and isn’t concerned because he knows how to grease the rails to boost things into warp speed right at the right spot. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2023, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-the-economy-stupid/988866/116 "2023-11-21T03:13:42Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Just voting for the other guy isn’t enough. You have to vote for the team that has some hope of improving your situation and has no plans to make your situation worse. But that requires thinking and thinking is HARD. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2023, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-the-economy-stupid/988866/117 "2023-11-21T06:54:38Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I’d expect that Biden is aware of that and isn’t concerned because he knows how to grease the rails to boost things into warp speed right at the right spot. I… hope so. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2023, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-the-economy-stupid/988866/118 "2023-11-21T07:36:45Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Exactly. And why do they think this? Because they are being inundated with media (including as we read earlier, sports radio) that “people are struggling”. With no evidence. Just assertions from media who are trying to talk down the economy for partisan political reasons Exactly. The current economy is damn good. But people dont understand economics, so they are easily led astray. Same with crime- violent crime is down, so the MAGA have to harp and the “wave” of shoplifting. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2023, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-the-economy-stupid/988866/119 "2023-11-21T17:23:13Z")
It’s crazy. My nephew’s family is bitching about the economy because their groceries cost a little more. My nephew just went from a job that paid 35K a year to one that pays 75K a year at a new factory. His wife, who in the past few years mostly worked gig jobs like a once a week home aide, occasional weekend farm labor and delivering for Walmart - went to school for her LPN (nursing ) certification, graduated this summer and walked right into a 60K job two weeks later. They’re still convinced the economy sucks, when I mention their new well-paying jobs they’re like, that’s us, it has nothing to do with the economy, It’s exasperating. ---
**Author:** ![BrianDime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ad7895/32.png) [@BrianDime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrianDime)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2023, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-the-economy-stupid/988866/120 "2023-11-21T20:57:22Z")
Aren’t corporate profits up? This means the rise in prices isn’t just passing on higher wages, it’s passing on higher wages AND raising prices beyond that to increase margins, doesn’t it? So if inflation is due to higher wages raising the cost of inputs, and increased competition of goods allowing higher prices to stand, but I think decreased competition is allowing business to reap extra profit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-the-economy-stupid/988866.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-the-economy-stupid/988866.md?page=7)