Remarkably, I heard an interview today with a woman was was in a coma, and who had her feeding tube removed (and later reinserted).
She could feel everything, hear them discussing that they should let her die, etc.
How is starving someone to death over a period of weeks the same as discontinuing CPR?
So he break some of his marriage vows in order to kill his wife? If he felt so strongly about it, he should have remained true to Terri until it was done. Now he has a clear conflict of interest. Scumbag.
Quick quiz: when did Michael first mention his “wife’s” desire?
The lady you heard being interviewed had a cerebral cortex. Terri Schiavo does not. The conditions are not analogous.
Another quick quiz: who said (according to witnesses) “Is the bitch dead yet?”
His marriage vows are none of your business and his wife died many years ago. There is no conflict of interest. And if you’re going to continue to call Michael Schiavo a “scumbag,” I hope you can come up with something better than the fact that he has a family. You made a number of assertions upthread that you were flat out wrong about. Are you going to acknowledge that?
What difference does it make? Why would you expect to see him talk about it before she went into a coma? He wasn’t the only one who testified as to her desires, by the way.
What witnesses?
Just out of curiousity, how long should he have remained ‘true’ to Terri? Fourteen years she’s been gone. That’s twice the time that a court requires to presume someone legally dead. That’s over 14 times the time that NYS uses for the standard of abandonment when granting divorces. And NY is one of the few, if not the only state, that doesn’t allow ‘no-fault’ divorces. Fourteen years ago, 1991, I was just getting into a relationship that was going to burn me for life - and that’s how long it’s been since he’s had any contact with the person his wife used to be.
Would you put your life on hold for fourteen years when there’s no real hope of change?
Removing the feeding tube and stopping CPR are both discontinuation of artificial efforts to perform essential biological functions the patient is no longer able to perform. Medically, cessation of heroic efforts is cessation of heroic efforts, regardless of what those efforts are. They’re only different emotionally, because of the differing time it takes the patient to die. When you discontinue CPR or disconnect a ventilator, the patient dies rather quickly. When you pull the tube, it takes a few days. We perceive the fast death as a natural consquence of not being able to perform a vital function, but the slow death as a manner of torture, even though this woman isn’t capable of suffering.
You certainly are proof that it is possible to post on a message board and be brain dead. Maybe there is hope for Terry after all.
None of the legislation is going to advance since Congress is about to recess, and the Supreme Court won’t take the case. The House is apparently now going to try some subpoena thing that I don’t fully understand.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/18/schiavo.brain-damaged/index.html
Very well said, CCL-thank you.
For the record (although it’s been stated repeatedly):
Coma is not the same as PVS.
Coma is not the same as PVS.
Coma is not the same as PVS.
I help families make these decisions every day. Just yesterday I initiated a discussion with a wife and son about letting their husband/father go.
When there is no hope of recovery, when there is no chance of meaningful life–and by that I mean the ability to consciously participate IN your life, the most humane thing to do is to stop all heroic measures.
I have now mixed up the threads in my head about this, so am not sure if I am repsonding in the correct one. However, what we find (as HCP) is that the significant others involved vary in their place in the acceptance of the patient’s condition. Some “get it” right away and see that the Golden Rule applies here–they will not do what they would not want done to them etc. Some keep seeking for a different answer and become resigned when educated on PVS. Still others refuse to accept any info that does not jive with their preconceived notions–but usually, as the days turn to weeks, and the weeks to months, they also gradually accept reality.
And then there are the Schindler’s. They are in a class by themselves and I hope there is a special place in hell for them. Their refusal to accept reality points to a mental pathology(though, I’m no psychiatrist). That they can manage to convince others of this does not tell me that they may have a case–it tells me that people are woefully uneducated and incredibly mis-informed about coma. PVS, and other end of life issues. This ignorance can be eliminated–and I hoe that is the one good thing to come out of this.
As to the Michael doesn’t let them brush her teeth–see, the dentist had to pull some–this is bullshit.
I have no idea what MS did or did not do. I DO know that unless scrupulous mouth care is given at least every 2 hours, round the clock to someone like Terri, that tooth decay and abcesses will occur. She is unable to swallow her own secretions (saliva) and she mouth breathes–both of these lead to pooling of saliva in the back of the throat, combined with the drying out of mucus membranes of the mouth–which equals a perfect breeding ground for all manner of bacteria.
Personally, I am surprised that she has not succumbed to pneumonia by now and that points to generally excellent care on the part of her nurses, and the rest of the health care team.
IMO, I think that since PVS is so alien that alot of people liken it to deep sleep or something. Nothing could be further than the truth. Terri is GONE and has been for 15 years.
The House Government Reform Committee (IIRC) has decided it needs to hold hearings on the issue of long term health care (I can’t tell if it had planned on holding the hearings all along, or if these hearings “coincidentally” just made it to the docket). One of their witnesses is supposed to be Terry Shiavo.
There goes any shred of decency Congress had left, as well as any shred of dignity the poor soul had. Strap her into a chair, wheel her into a packed hearing room.
If I were her husband I’d sit right down beside her and say, “OK, you got her here. Ask her any questions you want, you fucking vultures. Go ahead, ask her anything at all.”
And I’d like to add that terrifight.org is not an objective cite.
Abbie, I normally agree with you. But in this case, please read over the court documents. Her parents are not grounded in reality. Terri is gone. She’s been gone. Michael has tried everything. There is no hope.
OTOH, this may be an opportunity for Michael Schiavo to present an unedited view of Terry’s condition: At the moment we’ve got only the pictures and video that the Schindlers have released, which is clearly (and admittedly) edited. Somehow, I suspect that this may end up backfiring on the parents after all.
Alas, none of it will stick to the politicians who’ve decided to use this woman’s body as a football.
I just watched Tom DeFuckingLay on CNN, and the congresscritter with him said “Terri is as alive, alert, and responsive as you or I”. These shameless liars will just keep repeating it over and over until the sheeple believe it. I am dumbfounded that it continues to work, but it does.
:smack:
And how did he make this determination? Did he evaluate her himself? Did he get a medical degree during his tenure in office?
Oh for God’s sake. This is getting ridiculous.
Per ABC news (no link yet?) a judge had denied Congressional requests to review the case. The tube can be pulled.
ivylass, it’s been ridiculous. This is just FUBAR, now.
It’s no suprise the Republicans would rally around a brain-damaged, mouth-breathing vegetable. After all, that’s a demographic they depend on at election time.
Well, it is Tom DeLay, and in this case, I think Terri is his intellectual superior.
The removal of the tube has again been delayed. Hopefully, this will be the last time. Whatever you think-whether or not you believe she should remain on life support, or allowed to pass away, you can’t agree with her being used as a political pawn like this. It’s absolutely disgusting.