# Its time for Israel to launch Operation Susa **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 10, 2011, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474 "2011-11-10T03:41:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2011, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/201 "2011-11-14T13:38:22Z")
Recently, the CBC ran through a few likely “[Attacking Iran Scenarios](http://www.cbc.ca/thecurrent/episode/2011/11/10/attacking-iran-scenarios-sam-gardiner/)” with Sam Gardiner, a retired US Air Force Colonel and teacher of strategy at the [US National War College](http://www.ndu.edu/nwc/). The scenarios he goes through are: [ol] [li]Israeli air strike against Iranian nuclear program[/li][li]Israeli air strike against Iranian nuclear program leading to American involvement[/li][li]Israel and America do nothing leading to Iranian nuclear weapons[/li][/ol] In the end his advice is to just live with a nuclear Iran. ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2011, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/202 "2011-11-14T13:55:44Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Yeah, but even if it had succeeded, it wouldn’t have been Israel - it would have just been this country that happened to have a lot of Jews in it. Whereas Israel needs a captive labour force which native Siberians just can’t supply. Gotcha. Or, to quote Argent Towers, “enough others to provide the manpower”. > [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > The Irgun didn’t become the government of Israel. No. Their leader became the Prime Minister of Israel, but that’s not the same thing _at all_ > [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Your desire for da jooz to pack up and leave their “stolen” land for Siberia is absurd (Jooz have lived in Israel longer than many of the former-Egyptians-and-Jordanians-now-calling-themselves-Palestinians have). But with that said, I think Siberia is actually a great place for people to settle. The stereotype of it being a wasteland is BS. The region is rich in natural resources, including petroleum. It has the largest forest and the best fishery on the planet. If teh jooz can figure out how to make the desert bloom and create flourishing agriculture in a place where, previously, there was none, they can do the same thing with the tundra. You’re right insofar as Siberia is actually quite a nice place. There was a documentary on Channel Four about a man calling himself The Vossarion, aka the Second Coming, who has a very pleasant cult compound up there. Magnificent architecture. Especially considering it was all hand carved from wood. Just shows what talent was going to waste in the local soviet police. His former partner has also done well, he’s now _head_ of the local traffic police. The rest, though, no. The fertile crescent was never free of vegetation, or the Israelis wouldn’t have to bulldoze all those palestinian olive groves and orchards when they steal some more land for settlements. Unless your position is that it was one of those deserts infested by fruit trees or that the Jews took some time out after magicing trees into being to hand them out to the natives. > [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Why indeed? > > This is the same question I always ask, again and again, and it’s never answered. > > People _do_ have such _strong_ opinions about Israel. People who have never set foot in the Middle East, who don’t have any family or heritage there, who - as you just revealed - don’t know even the basic political facts about it - boy, do they ever have strong _negative_ opinions about it. > > And again - where are the passionate, heated arguments and proclamations - from people with _no_ personal connections whatsoever - about Ulster, Kosovo, Basque Country, Abkhazia, Cyprus…etc…shit, read the Wikipedia article on disputed territories. It’s fascinating. There are so many of them. Yet nobody ever talks about them. > > Co-incidentally, there are no jooz in these places. Some people seem to have quite strong positive opinions about it too. I mean, there’s no Abkhazian AIPAC or BICOM. And there’s no-one on this board arguing that magic Abkhazians would have solved stalinism and that “No matter where Abkhazians are, they bring technology and progress”, or such like. There are also no crazy Christian cults who think the independence and racial purity of Abkhazi is necessary to fulfil Biblical prophecy. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2011, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/203 "2011-11-14T14:01:19Z")
> [@blindboyard](#): > > Of course those are more complex issues. Kosovo, for example, has the conflicting interests of the Albanian majority and their right to self determination against the protection of the oppressed Serbian minority, which is **only a minority because of e3thnic cleansing by the Nazis** from which the Albanians benefited but which was effectively recognised by the later government of Tito in the interests of stability and unity. Hmmm…I wonder who else was a subject of ethnic cleansing? > [@](#): > > There’s a far more black and white issue with Israel, though. One day a gang of terrorists seized power and grabbed as much land as they could while evicting and murdering people for not being of the race allegedly appointed by god to rule that land, a pattern which they’d already well established. They then spent decades expanding their territory at the expense of the natives, instituting a racist dictatorship and being generally insufferable. You know, going on about how magical desert-greening Jews are uniquely put upon because no-one criticises other countries for massacring people and stealing their land, and so on. “As much land as they could”. Have you ever seen a map of the ME and the size of Israel compared to the rest of the ME countries? Guess not. BTW, why exactly does Iran care about Palestinians. Are they related? Probably not any closer than the Jewish population which it rails against. The only reason Iran cares about Palestinians is because they share one common attribute. Care to guess what it is? Care to guess why all the other groups in the ME support their Palestinian brothers (well in words and weapons, not enough to allow them to move to better accommodations among them)? Care to have guess as to why all those people want their ‘brothers’ (who aren’t really brothers) in control of the land that the Jews have now? I’ll give you a hint although you are real close: It has something to do with religion. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2011, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/204 "2011-11-14T14:03:17Z")
> [@blindboyard](#): > > Whereas Israel needs a captive labour force which native Siberians just can’t supply. Gotcha. Or, to quote Argent Towers, “enough others to provide the manpower”. Let me see - you know that there’s a country named “Israel”, and you know that you don’t like it. Other than that, you know absolutely nothing about my country. And yet you’re still talking. Fascinating. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2011, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/205 "2011-11-14T15:47:05Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > One successfully tested, eight on order. > > American yes, but if you believe Israel has nuclear weapons, why not superior bunker busters ? Did you even read what it is being developed for or how much the thing weighs? It’s a **30,000-lb** bomb being developed for use by the B-2 and Next-Generation Bomber. You can’t just slap a 30,000lb bomb under the wing of an F-16. Or does Israel secretly possess large intercontinental bombers? That Israel has an arsenal of nuclear weapons that it has never officially declared isn’t seriously disputed; I could give dozens of cites about the program and estimates of the size of the arsenal from respected sources. I have heard no one ever suggest that Israel has 30,000lb deep earth penetrating bombs and aircraft large enough to carry them aside from you. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2011, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/206 "2011-11-14T15:52:04Z")
> [@blindboyard](#): > > No. Their leader became the Prime Minister of Israel, but that’s not the same thing _at all_ Huh? Was that meant to be a serious point? Yes, Begin became the Israeli PM **30 YEARS LATER**. That was well after the Irgun had been disbanded and it took him decades of hard work for him to become politically acceptable amongst Israelis and he become politically acceptable despite the actions of what he’d done thirty years ago, which is dramatically different than Arafat or the other leaders of Fatah. Like I said, for Brooks’ statement to make sense we’d have to believe that Palestinians considerably more moderate than not just Hamas, but Fatah as well would take over if an independent Palestinian state was created. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2011, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/207 "2011-11-14T15:56:26Z")
> [@blindboyard](#): > > Some people seem to have quite strong positive opinions about it too. I mean, there’s no Abkhazian AIPAC or BICOM. And there’s no-one on this board arguing that magic Abkhazians would have solved stalinism and that “No matter where Abkhazians are, they bring technology and progress”, or such like. There are also no crazy Christian cults who think the independence and racial purity of Abkhazi is necessary to fulfil Biblical prophecy. You seem to be admitting that your problem isn’t just with Israelis but Jews in general, though you display a jaw-dropping level of ignorance about Jews, Zionism, and Israel. Why do you feel so passionately about a part of the world, a culture, and a history you know very little about and have at best a superficial understanding of? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2011, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/208 "2011-11-14T15:57:44Z")
Back to the OP - in my opinion, essentially any efforts to attack a country’s nuclear program are “delaying tactics”. No matter what you do, you can’t forever prevent them from putting together a program - but what you _can_ do, is make it much more expensive and time-consuming, and this is just what Israel has done. For example, it is widely suspected that Iran has decentralized its program and hidden key components of it in bomb-resistant bunkers - because they remember the lessons of previous Israeli attacks on such instillations. Such efforts of course impose costs and delays. Next, parties unknown (but perhaps the US and/or Israel) sabotaged the Iranian centerfuges with a computer virus - completely bypassing those elaborate and expensive defences. And so it goes. Expecting the next attack to be exactly the one prepared for is futile - it may bear no resemblence to it. In the end, of course, there is no guarantee that any amount of attacks will work, because aside from dominating the country, you can’t actually prevent them from getting nukes if they have enough time and resources to pour into the attempt - but you can delay them, and sometimes delay is sufficient. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2011, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/209 "2011-11-14T20:14:14Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Next, parties unknown (but perhaps the US and/or Israel) sabotaged the Iranian centerfuges with a computer virus - completely bypassing those elaborate and expensive defences. > > And so it goes. No doubt. Also in the past few years Iranian nuclear scientists have been (both [covertly](http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/23/us-iran-assassination-idUSTRE76M1WI20110723) and [over](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-11860928)[tly](http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/tehranbureau/2010/01/who-murdered-prof-ali-mohammadi.html)) [suffering](http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,777899,00.html) from [bouts](http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jul/25/iran-denies-assassinated-academic-nuclear-connection) of assassinations. The list of things like motorcycle bombers is impressive: [ul] [li][Masoud Alimohammadi](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masoud_Alimohammadi)[/li][li][Majid Shahriari](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/bomb-blast-blamed-on-israel-and-us-kills-iran-nuclear-scientist-2146996.html)[/li][li][Fereydoon Abbasi](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fereydoon_Abbasi)[/li][/ul] There’s also the plain shooting of [Darioush Rezaeinejad](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darioush_Rezaeinejad) (again by motorcyclists) and a mysterious blast killing [Maj. Gen. Hassan Moghaddam](http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2011/1114/Did-Israel-assassinate-Iran-s-missile-king); but the total disappearance of [Shahram Amiri](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shahram_Amiri) during Hajj and [Ardeshir Hosseinpour](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ardeshir_Hosseinpour)’s “radioactive gas poisoning” sounds downright whimsical. If I was Iranian, nuclear physics would be the \*\*last \*\*career path I’d choose. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2011, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/210 "2011-11-14T20:33:43Z")
Shahram Amiri is no longer missing[ [QUOTE=Wikipedia] According to a 2011 report by NPR news, he “was believed to be an agent-in-place for the CIA,” who decided “he wanted out of Iran”, but once in the US “got cold feet” and “made his way back to Iran” [/QUOTE] ](http://www.npr.org/2011/05/10/136054851/covert-war-with-iran-a-wilderness-of-mirrors) ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/211 "2011-11-15T22:15:33Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > Hmmm…I wonder who else was a subject of ethnic cleansing? Palestinians? If we’re talking specifically about the Nazis then there’s a list as long as your arm. > [@](#): > > “As much land as they could”. Have you ever seen a map of the ME and the size of Israel compared to the rest of the ME countries? Guess not. > BTW, why exactly does Iran care about Palestinians. Are they related? Probably not any closer than the Jewish population which it rails against. The only reason Iran cares about Palestinians is because they share one common attribute. Care to guess what it is? Care to guess why all the other groups in the ME support their Palestinian brothers (well in words and weapons, not enough to allow them to move to better accommodations among them)? Care to have guess as to why all those people want their ‘brothers’ (who aren’t really brothers) in control of the land that the Jews have now? I’ll give you a hint although you are real close: It has something to do with religion. You think the political elites of the middle east are genuinely motivated by religion? It’s just political expediency. Not that being “related” constitutes a legitimate reason for political sympathy. If the Iranians were all meant to be semites, that wouldn’t change anything. > [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > You seem to be admitting that your problem isn’t just with Israelis but Jews in general, though you display a jaw-dropping level of ignorance about Jews, Zionism, and Israel. > > Why do you feel so passionately about a part of the world, a culture, and a history you know very little about and have at best a superficial understanding of? My problem is with Zionism, not Jewry, although I’m not too enthusiastic about people who think Jews constitute a superior race. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/212 "2011-11-15T22:19:49Z")
> [@blindboyard](#): > > although I’m not too enthusiastic about people who think Jews constitute a superior race. Who are these guys? I’d like to borrow money from them. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/213 "2011-11-15T22:42:37Z")
“My problem is with Zionism.” Zionism barely even _exists_ anymore. The concept of Zionism was to establish a Jewish state in Israel during the early 1900s; it was accomplished; end of story. What do people even mean nowadays when they criticize “Zionism”? Half the time, they seem to be talking about Jews and just saying Zionism; the other half, I don’t think they know _what_ they mean, they just want to criticize something that Israel is doing. The term Zionism is egregiously abused over and over again in these kinds of debates. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/214 "2011-11-16T00:03:06Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > “My problem is with Zionism.” Zionism barely even _exists_ anymore. I believe many countries in the area would rather use the term “Zionists” than refer to Israel as a country. ---
**Author:** ![brocks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7feea3/32.png) [@brocks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brocks)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/215 "2011-11-16T01:13:41Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > “My problem is with Zionism.” Zionism barely even _exists_ anymore. The concept of Zionism was to establish a Jewish state in Israel during the early 1900s; it was accomplished; end of story. That’s a very weird viewpoint, IMO. It’s kind of like saying there should be no controversy about being pro-choice, ever since the Roe v. Wade decision. > [@](#): > > What do people even mean nowadays when they criticize “Zionism”? Half the time, they seem to be talking about Jews and just saying Zionism; the other half, I don’t think they know _what_ they mean, they just want to criticize something that Israel is doing. In other words, 100% of the time they are either lying or ignorant. Who died and made you Queen of the May? I’ll clear it up for you. Some people have a tendency to label as anti-Semitic anyone who implies that Israel doesn’t have the bestest government ever. But there are a lot of people, including a lot of Jews, who simply think that Israel had no right to take over what they perceive as Palestinian land, and to continue to occupy more and more of it today. If you think they have their facts wrong, you are welcome to refute them. If you think they are on the wrong side of some moral issue, you are welcome to argue that point. But IMO you have no right to question their motives or intelligence. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/216 "2011-11-16T01:28:29Z")
[QUOTE=brocks] I’ll clear it up for you. Some people have a tendency to label as anti-Semitic anyone who implies that Israel doesn’t have the bestest government ever. But there are a lot of people, including a lot of Jews, who simply think that Israel had no right to take over what they perceive as Palestinian land, and to continue to occupy more and more of it today. [/QUOTE] That’s as clear as mud. You haven’t explained where the term “Zionism” fits into any of that. Are you saying that “Zionism” is the same as “Israel’s right to exist?” ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/217 "2011-11-16T01:36:39Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > That’s as clear as mud. You haven’t explained where the term “Zionism” fits into any of that. Are you saying that “Zionism” is the same as “Israel’s right to exist?” Zionists wanted to return to the land of Zion, and felt that the area belonged to Jews for religious and historical reasons. One of the Rabbis at the Beth Din asked me if I were a Zionist. ---
**Author:** ![brocks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7feea3/32.png) [@brocks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brocks)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/218 "2011-11-16T02:01:45Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > . Are you saying that “Zionism” is the same as “Israel’s right to exist?” Of course not. I think you have a right to exist, but not to take over my house at gunpoint. If you want to buy my house at a price I like, then we will get along fine. On the other hand, if I don’t want to sell at any price, then you need to find someone who does. Besides, “Zionism” a pretty loose term, and thus very easy for people on either side to attack, since it can refer to various mostly political movements, most famously one that came to prominence in the late 19th century, as well as more nebulous religion-based justifications that have been around, I guess, since the first century, and continue today in speeches and writings you see from Israeli Jews and American conservative Christians, among others. You may be too young to remember a big hit song called “Exodus,” IIRC from the early 60’s. It begins, “This land is mine; God gave this land to me.” But I would think that anyone smarter than Herman Cain understands what people mean when they say they are anti-Zionist, rather than anti-Semitic. It has little to do with Israel’s right to exist per se, it’s more about the how, why, and where of it. And it’s a moving target — most (if not all) of the Arab countries that attacked Israel in 1948 have signed on to a policy that accepts Israel’s existence (under conditions that Israel rejects). If it’s OK with them, it’s OK with me. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/219 "2011-11-16T02:21:36Z")
> [@brocks](#): > > Of course not. I think you have a right to exist, but not to take over my house at gunpoint. > > And it’s a moving target — most (if not all) of the Arab countries that attacked Israel in 1948 have signed on to a policy that accepts Israel’s existence (under conditions that Israel rejects). If it’s OK with them, it’s OK with me. So I can let you keep your house under conditions that you don’t agree to? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![brocks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7feea3/32.png) [@brocks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brocks)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/220 "2011-11-16T02:45:54Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > So I can let you keep your house under conditions that you don’t agree to? 🙂 Based on your previous reply to me, I’m not at all surprised that you see no difference between throwing me out of my house, and moving my fence in a few feet. But if you can think of a way to solve the Israeli-Palestinian problem that leaves everyone perfectly happy, I’ll revise my opinion. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474.md?page=12)