# Its time for Israel to launch Operation Susa **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 10, 2011, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474 "2011-11-10T03:41:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/281 "2011-11-21T12:19:04Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > You do realize that you’re insulting Ehsan Yarshater, one of the leading if not the leading authority in the US on Iranian history. Your historian is saying, “Maybe kinda sorta”. Perhaps he intends to convey that is a strong possibility rather than a definite fact. > [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Really, exactly why did we know that Germany was going to “use their nukes as soon as they got them”? Because they used every damn thing they had. They were losing and could expect no mercy at least from the Russians due to they way they had committed atrocities in Russia. Heisenberg was essentially moving his lab in a truck as the Allies advanced. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/282 "2011-11-21T17:32:05Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Your historian is saying, “Maybe kinda sorta”. Perhaps he intends to convey that is a strong possibility rather than a definite fact. What he was relating was what is generally believed by experts. Obviously, we can’t say definitively that was what happened which is true of lots of things. Similarly, I suppose people could jump up and down screaming regarding my statement that James Baker said “fuck the Jews! They didn’t vote for us!” because he’s never admitted to saying it, but it’s certainly widely believed among Washington insiders and few doubt it’s veracity. It’s actually considerably more likely than the whole “you’re part of the reality-based community.” ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/283 "2011-11-21T17:43:35Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Because they used every damn thing they had. You probably don’t realize it, but you’re effectively quoting Reza Aslan explaining why Iran sponsored terrorist attacks against Israel. As he put it, “they use terrorists because that’s all they have.” The point is the Israelis are terrified they’d use nukes because from their POV, the Iranians have used everything at their disposal to attack Jewish civilians. I think the Israelis are wrong, but it would be absurd not to understand where the Israelis are coming from. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/284 "2011-11-21T19:28:53Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > You probably don’t realize it, but you’re effectively quoting Reza Aslan explaining why Iran sponsored terrorist attacks against Israel. Somehow, I figured that you would jump on that with both feet. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2011, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/285 "2011-11-21T19:35:49Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Somehow, I figured that you would jump on that with both feet. 🙂 While I disagree with Aslan on some things, I do like him and think he’s a terrific writer. ---
**Author:** ![slowlearner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@slowlearner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slowlearner)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/286 "2011-11-22T00:52:21Z")
shoot, boys, as major kong said (more or less),“you wouldn’t be human if you didn’t have some pretty major reservations about nuclear combat.” at least this thread is just a fight with dull knives… ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/287 "2011-11-22T02:19:52Z")
> [@slowlearner](#): > > at least this thread is just a fight with dull knives… {quote=Cut Nose Curry} Rules? In a knife fight? {/quote} ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/288 "2011-11-22T20:56:13Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Could you cite where I said anything even remotely like I think I’m an expert on Iran? He doesn’t think anyone less than an expert should engage in debate. > [@](#): > > You’re posts are really quite hostile. You seem to take offense at even the slightest criticism or request for you to back up anything you write. Well if you were an expert, he wouldn’t need to back up his statements because you would already agree with him. > [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > When it comes to Israel facing overwhelming odds in military conflict, my money is on Israel. I don’t think Israel faces overwhelming odds in a war with the combined forces of all its neighbors but I would point out that Israel’s forces outnumbered arab forces (or was pretty close) in every war they fought and in the more decisive wars they employed first strike. With that said, Israel’s forces (at least in the beginning) seemed to be made up largely of militia and irregular forces while the arab forces were presumably soldiers. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > Wikipedia can be good or bad, and you can decide that by how any given article is cited. However, I have not mentioned wikipedia in this thread, and I’m not claiming it as a legit cite in this instance. Don’t worry about it, Ibn has a thing about wikipedia, I half suspect he is a school teacher (I have met some school teachers who think wikipedia is the devil). > [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I don’t speak Farsi, but virtually every reputable source agrees with Professor Cole’s assertion that Ahmadinejad’s statement(in which he was quoting Khomeini) has been mistranslated and that the actual quote was(as best as I remember) “the Zionist entity shall be wiped from the page of history”(though I’d want to recheck to be sure). > > Ironically enough Al-Jazeera stands by the more common translation while MEMRI stands by the IMHO more proper translation. That doesn’t sound particularly genocidal and anti-semetic (some of the other stuff they say does but this stuff, not so much). > [@carnivorousplant](#): > > That is the most ugly, nasty post that I have seen on the SDMB. > Shame on you. ???You say shame on you a lot where it isn’t particularly appropriate. > [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > In fact, the PLO in their Covenant have gone out of their way to indicate that they most certainly wouldn’t be treated equally. Not saying it would be a good thing but its not genocide either. > [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > You’re referring to the blowing up of the HQ of the British military intelligence in Palestine by the Irgun. > > The Irgun didn’t become the government of Israel. Perhaps this is another example where the internet is disseminating false information but aren’t Netanyahu’s links to Irgun more substantial than Ahmedenijad (or the Ayatollah’s) connection to Hitler? > [@brocks](#): > > Precisely. I think that if the Palestinians were to gain military dominance over all of Israel (now called Palestine), then yes Hamas would be likely to cease terrorist activity in Palestine and proceed to elect former Hamas members into high office (all the while denouncing the terrorist arm of Hamas). Perhaps they would treat Jews like crap and we would see a century of UN resolutions condemning Palestine before the Jews got the upper hand again. But nothing tells me that Hamas would abandon terrorism under a two state solution. Do you think they would be satisfied with only half a cake (or pie)? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/289 "2011-11-22T21:07:58Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > ???You say shame on you a lot where it isn’t particularly appropriate. Shame on you, too. It beats swearing at someone and incurring the Wrath of the Mods. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/290 "2011-11-22T21:22:39Z")
Good grief, Damuri. You’re still smarting over the last time I embarrassed you and still making passive aggressive attacks? Do I remind you of an ex-girlfriend or something? Personally, I’d almost forgotten about you, but you’re still clearly not over me. Sorry, but I’m just not that into you. You’re far too boring and predictable. I need someone who’s are more exciting to keep my interest. > [@](#): > > Perhaps this is another example where the internet is disseminating false information but aren’t Netanyahu’s links to Irgun more substantial than Ahmedenijad (or the Ayatollah’s) connection to Hitler? The Irgun disappeared before Netanyahu was even born. I also don’t think anyone has claimed that Ahmadinejad or the Ayatollah was linked with Hitler. They’re both certainly quite anti-Semitic(or were in the case of Khomeini) have backed a number of anti-Semitic laws(or anti-semetic as you’d say) in Iran and probably would have ethnically cleansed the Jews from Israel if they could have which bears some resemblance to Hitler. Are you sure you weren’t confused? Were you thinking of the early Arab nationalists like Nasser and Sadat who backed Hitler during WWII? Were you thinking of the founder of Palestinian nationalism, El Hajj Amin Al-Husseini, who met with Hitler many times, organized Muslim SS divisions and enthusiastically supported the Holocaust and later on helped the rise of his nephew Yasser Arafat? Or perhaps you were thinking of Yasser Arafat who had a chief bodyguard known as “Abu Hitler”? I suppose you could have meant “Abu Hitler” instead of “Adolph Hitler” when you asked about connections to Hitler, but that doesn’t seem likely. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/291 "2011-11-22T21:53:53Z")
**Ibn Warraq** , you’re out of line here and I’m giving you a formal warning. As a general note to you and **Snowboarder Bo** and **Damuri Ajashi** , this is not the right forum for your issues individually. Leave the personal stuff in the Pit and stick to the facts while you’re posting in Great Debates. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/292 "2011-11-22T22:07:19Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > **Ibn Warraq** , you’re out of line here and I’m giving you a formal warning. As a general note to you and **Snowboarder Bo** and **Damuri Ajashi** , this is not the right forum for your issues individually. Leave the personal stuff in the Pit and stick to the facts while you’re posting in Great Debates. I was teasing him in response to some passive-aggressive comments he made about me which were pretty clearly designed to get a reaction. He also has a pattern of deliberately attacking me through making such posts responding to others and, I believe has been warned about this by mods before. If you feel that I deserve to be warned for some minor teasing to his repeated provocations then it seems only fair to either give him a warning or to rescind mine. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/293 "2011-11-22T22:13:05Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > If you feel that I deserve to be warned for some minor teasing to his repeated provocations then it seems only fair to either give him a warning or to rescind mine. I didn’t think those last few posts deserved a warning, and yours did. I specifically mentioned the three of you in that mod note. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/294 "2011-11-22T22:34:39Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > I see. Do you think that other countries that are built upon “stolen” land should do the same thing? If not, why? > > Why is it only da jooz who have to do these things? These other instances of contested land do not always involve million of refugees living as refugees for decades. These other instances of contested land has not resulted in the export of terrorism all over the world. And in other cases we have in fact seen significantly more global disapporval (see south africa, or were the afrikaners also Jewish?). Criticism of something with a Jewish nexus is not necessarily anti-semitism, sometimes it just criticism of something that needs criticizing. > [@](#): > > I have no doubt that even if Israel were in Siberia, it would still be a technological and scientific powerhouse. No matter where Jews are, they bring technology and progress. … If teh jooz can figure out how to make the desert bloom and create flourishing agriculture in a place where, previously, there was none, they can do the same thing with the tundra. Yes, superior Jewish genetics and society makes Jewish success inevitable. > [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Whew. > I thought we were going to have to give Arkansas back to the Ouachita. > > Hey, wait. 2011-1947=64! The Israelis get to stay! We let the American Indians vote. > [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > It’s teh joos who get singled out. Rather than assume racism perhaps an objective look at the facts would make this seem like less of a mystery. > [@Naxos](#): > > I said “not much”. To be fair if you can consider the Jews in Israel “not much” you should probably consider the palestinians in the West bank “not much” too so thye current state of affairs does not create much objection either. > [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > You’ve expressed extremely strong opinions about the Israel/Palestine conflict and you’re now confessing you’re completely ignorant about the Palestinian Prime Minister? > > Sorry, but what you’ve done is comparable to someone who expressed extremely strong opinions about the US upon being asked their opinion of Barack Obama proclaimed “who the fuck is he?” > > Sorry for my assumptions. > > I assumed someone who expressed such strong opinions regarding Israel/Palestine would have at least a rudimentary knowledge of the conflict and wouldn’t be so embarrassingly ignorant of the conflict that they didn’t know who the Palestinian Prime Minister was and upon hearing his name wouldn’t go “who’s that”? > > I profusely apologize and won’t make the mistake of assuming you’d be knowledgeable enough to pass a quizz on the conflict that any 12-year-old Palestinian or Israeli would be expected to pass. > > That said, if you’re so ignorant of the conflict that you didn’t even recognize the name to the Palestinian Prime Minister then why do you have such strong opinions about it. Why do you keep doing this instead of arguing the substance of the arguments? You frequently pick up on some lack of knowledge in the person youa re arguing with and use taht as a pretext to dismiss them and their opinions entirely. Do you really need to know the intricacies of the tax code to have an opinion on taxes? If so then every debate on taxes would be more or less a dialogue between me and Rand Rover. Imagine if every third post from me ina tax thread was "I’m a tax lawyer, what makes you think you are qualified to have such a stron opinion on taxes if you don’t even understand how how taxation works? I suggest you read Ginsberg’s treatise on mergers and acquisitions, Garlock’s treatise on debt, Kramer on financial products and articles by Kleinbard and Peaslee before you embarass yourself further in this debate. > [@](#): > > Why are you showing such callous disregard for Cyprus’ Muslim population? Were the Cypriate muslims colonialist or imperialist invaders? Perhaps he doesn’t have a lot of sympathy for them for that reason. > [@Alessan](#): > > Yeah, but even if it had succeeded, it wouldn’t have been Israel - it would have just been this country that happened to have a lot of Jews in it. See, this is part of the problem I have with Zionism. Its GOTTA be where it is right now because of what? Some divine mandate? If the point is to have a Jewish nation in case history produces another Hitler, why does it have to be exactly where it is? Whats wrong with a country that just happens to have a lot of Jews in it? We don’t have to call it Israel, we can call it Florida. > [@Uzi](#): > > “As much land as they could”. > Have you ever seen a map of the ME and the size of Israel compared to the rest of the ME countries? Guess not. Well to be fair, if they thought they could take and hold more, then Israel might be a bit larger right now. > [@](#): > > I’ll give you a hint although you are real close: It has something to do with religion. While I realize that Sunni muslim is a lot closer to Shia muslim than Judaism, it seems to me that sometimes Sunnis and Shia do not get along. I don’t think Iran gives a shit about Israel except to the extent they can curry regional political influence by bashing on Israel. > [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > “My problem is with Zionism.” Zionism barely even _exists_ anymore. The concept of Zionism was to establish a Jewish state in Israel during the early 1900s; it was accomplished; end of story. What do people even mean nowadays when they criticize “Zionism”? Half the time, they seem to be talking about Jews and just saying Zionism; the other half, I don’t think they know _what_ they mean, they just want to criticize something that Israel is doing. The term Zionism is egregiously abused over and over again in these kinds of debates. When i criticize zionism, I am usually criticizing the all the shit that Israel does to maintain a Jewish majority in Israel. > [@Uzi](#): > > As the Palestinians and their Muslim neighbors will never be happy with Israel being there and the Israelis will be happy with what they have now, then you might as well make the one side happy. Seems pretty obvious, actually. You are merely saying I prefer the status quo. If the situation were reversed, and the neighboring states were all happy without an Israeli state and the Zionists would only be happy with an Israeli state in Palestine and we couldn’t make both sides happy, would you say "oh well we might as well make the neighboring states happy and leave Palestine alone or would you carve an Israeli state out of Palestine? > [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > It’s a bit amusing being lectured by someone who’s insisting that 21 Arab nations “recognize” Israel. They have offered to recognize israel. You must know about the arab peace plan, I’ve mentioned it several times int he past. The fact that you don’t like it doesn’t mean the offer was never made. > [@brocks](#): > > Too late to edit, but I would like to amend that to “exposing your ignorance of the Arab Peace Initiative.” We were discussing a fairly narrow issue, and I did not mean to imply that you are ignorant in general. I would have given you a pass entirely if you had not been so condescending about your superior knowledge, and my own alleged lack of knowledge. > > And it’s not just me: you said to somebody else in this thread “you display a jaw-dropping level of ignorance about Jews, Zionism, and Israel” > > Maybe tone it down a bit? No kidding. It gets unnecessarily insulting but the mods seem to think its ok. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/295 "2011-11-22T22:46:17Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I didn’t think those last few posts deserved a warning, and yours did. I specifically mentioned the three of you in that mod note. Damuri has a rather weird, somewhat disturbing fixation on me which has caused him to have a rather extensive history of repeatedly making passive-aggressive attacks on me, which is what I was responding to. He’s actually been warned specifically about “calling out other posters” due his history. I was under the impression that someone who had a history of engaging in such behavior and being warned to stop by the mods would be asked to would receive a warning. I was also under the impression that some latitude was given to people who were responding to personal attacks. Anyway, my comments to him were clearly tongue-in-cheek and self-deprecating. What was so offensive about them that they warranted a warning while repeatedly trolling another poster doesn’t? Thanks ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/296 "2011-11-22T22:53:16Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > You do realize that you’re insulting Ehsan Yarshater, one of the leading if not the leading authority in the US on Iranian history. I’m not insulting him. I’m pointing out that he he is using weasel words. [Weasel word - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weasel_word) (I know how much you hate wikipedia but its no reason to keep yoursself deliberately ignorant.) > [@](#): > > If you’re going to do that, you ought to give us some reasons to judge your own knowledge and understanding of Iranian history. I don’t need to do that to identify weasel words. > [@](#): > > In prior discussions you’ve insisted that everything you knew about the Middle East came from wikipedia and actually got angry when people suggested that you might want to read up on the subject. Angry? I took issue with your argument that anyone whose knowledge of the middle east was based on stuff they read on the internet (including wikipedia) didn’t know enough to participate or voice an opinion on the middle east unless they read your list of books on the middle east. > [@](#): > > So, have you ever read any books about Iran, visited Iran, or even had discussion with academics regarding Iran? Why would I need to? > [@](#): > > I certainly hope you have some standing to insult one of the World’s foremost historians on Iran. Once again you don’t seem to udnerstand what I was saying. There is no moral indictment. > [@](#): > > That’s bullshit. > > I simply have stated that I doubt Iran will attack Israel. “FWIW, I don’t think that the government of Iran would either give nukes to terrorists to commit genocide against Israel or launch a nuclear attack against them.” [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14448493&postcount=48](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14448493&postcount=48) I’m not really sure which hair you are trying to split with that statement but if it would make things clearer, I will rephrase to say "Even you don’t think > [@](#): > > Now, if you can’t understand why Jews would be terrified of a virulently anti-Semitic government who has sponsored a number of attacks on Jewish civilians then you are clueless regarding the history of both the Jews and the Middle East. Even you seem to admit that the shah’s alleged alliance with Hitler was not anti-semetic and i don’t remmeber anti-semitism being brought up during the iranian revolution. Is anti-semitism in iran to some degree displaced anti-Americanism or is there really a historical anti-semitism throughout Iranian history? > [@](#): > > Really, exactly why did we know that Germany was going to “use their nukes as soon as they got them”? Seriously? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/297 "2011-11-22T23:12:07Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Personally, I’d almost forgotten about you, but you’re still clearly not over me. Sorry I’ve been away, I’ve been busy at work. Did you miss me? > [@](#): > > The Irgun disappeared before Netanyahu was even born. You’re right, I’m sorry, sloppy reading on my part. He was hanging out with some former Irgun members commemorating the King David Hotel bombing but he is not identified as an Irgun member. > [@](#): > > I also don’t think anyone has claimed that Ahmadinejad or the Ayatollah was linked with Hitler. Then whats with the 5 or 6 pages about hitler and iran in this thread? I thought the clear implication at least initially was that part of the reason Israelis were justifiably worried about Iran was because of their lnks with genocidal hitler? Are you saying that those are irrational fears and that any link between Hitler and iran has no place in a rational Israeli’s reaction to a nuclearized Iran (which I don’t think would be a good thing) > [@](#): > > They’re both certainly quite anti-Semitic(or were in the case of Khomeini) have backed a number of anti-Semitic laws(or anti-semetic as you’d say) in Iran and probably would have ethnically cleansed the Jews from Israel if they could have which bears some resemblance to Hitler. Sorry about the spelling ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/298 "2011-11-22T23:24:08Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Well to be fair, if they thought they could take and hold more, then Israel might be a bit larger right now. Yet we know that if their Muslim neighbors could wipe them out they would. So, what is stopping the Israelis from pushing the Palestinians into the sea? > [@](#): > > While I realize that Sunni muslim is a lot closer to Shia muslim than Judaism, it seems to me that sometimes Sunnis and Shia do not get along. I don’t think Iran gives a shit about Israel except to the extent they can curry regional political influence by bashing on Israel. I once had a Muslim friend of mine say that Spain used to be theirs and should be again. Once once belonged to Islam, always belongs to Islam. Little different than the religious reasons that people claim the Jews use for their being in the ME, imho. > [@](#): > > You are merely saying I prefer the status quo. If the situation were reversed, and the neighboring states were all happy without an Israeli state and the Zionists would only be happy with an Israeli state in Palestine and we couldn’t make both sides happy, would you say "oh well we might as well make the neighboring states happy and leave Palestine alone or would you carve an Israeli state out of Palestine? There is an Israeli state there now and its neighbors will never be happy with it being there no matter what concessions happen. Even if the future Palestinian state was able to survive on its own, that won’t stop the rockets and bombs from going off in Israel. As you even said earlier, Israel’s existence is used by the other totalitarian governments in the region as a diversion and Iran will still support the terrorists. > [@](#): > > They have offered to recognize israel. You must know about the arab peace plan, I’ve mentioned it several times int he past. The fact that you don’t like it doesn’t mean the offer was never made. And there have been other plans before and after. Why weren’t they accepted? Why didn’t the plan say that whatever each side has now is what they get and all those oil rich Arab states will subsidize the new Palestine ensuring it survives? Issues around water are bullshit as places like the UAE have huge water desalination plants. Someone just has to pay for them. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/299 "2011-11-22T23:33:44Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > Yet we know that if their Muslim neighbors could wipe them out they would. So, what is stopping the Israelis from pushing the Palestinians into the sea? 'Cause they are the Good Guys. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2011, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/300 "2011-11-22T23:39:55Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > Yet we know that if their Muslim neighbors could wipe them out they would. So, what is stopping the Israelis from pushing the Palestinians into the sea? The international embarrassment of doing so, especially since even America would likely feel obligated to end aid to or even embargo Israel if they did that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474.md?page=16)