# Its time for Israel to launch Operation Susa **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 10, 2011, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474 "2011-11-10T03:41:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/41 "2011-11-10T07:22:59Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > There’s no need to be insulting. > > [http://www.payvand.com/news/04/dec/1153.html](http://www.payvand.com/news/04/dec/1153.html) > Again, I do find it hysterical that you’re trying to dispute that the Shah was allied with Hitler. **Simplicio** In retrospect, I was being far too harsh. I apologize. ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/42 "2011-11-10T07:26:55Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Frankly I think Israel, and the Jews, just need to face the music and accept that Israel is not going to exist much longer. You know, the USSR was a nation and ideology that was a far greater nightmare than Iran could ever hope to be. Despite all the horrific behavior they never nuked anyone. MAD is a policy that keeps countries from destroying themselves with nukes. Only the United States has every nuked anyone and that’s because nobody in the world could nuke us back. There is 60 years history of living with this kind of policy, allies of both Israel and Iran know how to adapt to it. Israel isn’t going anywhere. > [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > The Jews’ brief and unlikely moment as a victorious and strong people will be history, fondly-remembered mythology. It was a fluke. Almost everyone in the world is against their country; they get singled out in ways that nobody else on earth does. Now their neighbors are developing the power to finally wipe them off the map, as they’ve always wanted - and I fully believe that it will happen soon. Jews will have to go back to being a people without a home, and eventually they will probably die off from assimilation anyway. Holy shit, almost everyone is against them? You really lap up the propaganda don’t you. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/43 "2011-11-10T07:33:38Z")
Big difference. The USSR was secular. As bad as they were, at least they didn’t think they would all be _sent to heaven_ if they died fighting the enemy. Religious fervor is infinitely more dangerous than mere _political_ ideology; on that, I agree with **Der Trihs.** All the Russians had to motivate them was a system of economics, Communism, one that most of them probably didn’t even understand to begin with. Iran has _God._ Huge, huge difference. The US is a gigantic country bordered by two oceans and two allied countries. Israel is smaller than New Jersey and it is situated right in the middle of a vast field of enemies (most of them hundreds of times larger - and with vast oil reserves, to boot.) No, Israel’s existence over the long term is simply not feasible. Face reality, people. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/44 "2011-11-10T07:37:46Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Cite? You’re demanding a “cite” for the fact that the Shah backed Hitler and was overthrown by the British during WWII.:dubious: > [@](#): > > I only ask because the wiki entry on Iran does not back up your claims. This is truly one of the most moronic arguments I’ve ever heard. Because something isn’t mention in a wikipedia article it must be false? Moreover, wikipedia is an absolutely horrible resource to use for anything related to the Middle East. > [@](#): > > Missed the edit window, but I did see your “cite”: a non-researched piece by someone with no creditability that I know of, written over 7 years ago. This is your only cite? I take it back. This was an even more moronic statement. Fouad Kazem is an Iranian journalist and academic who, amongst other things, writes for [Iranian.com](http://Iranian.com), an Iranian-American online journal. Moreover, this is a statement coming from someone who actually thinks wikipedia a reliable source. Tell me, since you so seem to think you know so much about the country I was born in and my father is from, when was the last time you visited Iran, how good is your Farsi, how many books on Iran have you read, how many Iranians have you talked to and do you know. I assume you’re more than just some American who knows nothing of Iran but skimmed an article in wikipedia on it and thinks you’re an expert. I’d certainly hope you have a lot more than that if you’re going to insist that Fouad Kazem “has no credibility”. ---
**Author:** ![mac\_bolan00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b3f665/32.png) [@mac\_bolan00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mac_bolan00)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/45 "2011-11-10T07:40:14Z")
the israelis don’t have to pretend they’re waging a righteous air strike. bomb if they can. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/46 "2011-11-10T07:42:07Z")
FWIW, I don’t think that the government of Iran would either give nukes to terrorists to commit genocide against Israel or launch a nuclear attack against them. However, I can understand why Israelis would be terrified as would most of Iran’s neighbors. That said, we’re not going to see a replay of Osirak and we’re better off using a carrot and stick approach to getting Iran to steer their nuclear capability towards domestic use rather than the building of weapons. ---
**Author:** ![mac\_bolan00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b3f665/32.png) [@mac\_bolan00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mac_bolan00)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/47 "2011-11-10T07:43:26Z")
and why can’t iran have nukes when israel does? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/48 "2011-11-10T08:02:10Z")
> [@mac\_bolan00](#): > > and why can’t iran have nukes when israel does? Agreed. It’s absolutely outrageous and disgusting that the US worked to prevent Germany from getting nukes in WWII. If the USA could have them then why couldn’t Germany!? Also, what country is “iran” and what country is “israel”? ---
**Author:** ![Baffle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dec6dc/32.png) [@Baffle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baffle)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/49 "2011-11-10T08:09:00Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > Eliminate the nuclear threat with massive conventional airstrikes.[/SIZE] There are [other ways](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuxnet) to eliminate the Iranian nuclear threat. The Stuxnet worm is theorized to have severely affected Iranian nuclear centrifuges, rendering 25% of them inoperable (and possibly wasting a significant amount of time and energy producing worthless product before the defects were noticed). ([More info](http://news.cnet.com/8301-27080_3-20018530-245.html) at cnet, which seems less sensationalized.) ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/50 "2011-11-10T08:12:50Z")
> [@mac\_bolan00](#): > > and why can’t iran have nukes when israel does? Because they will destroy the Middle East/Israel the moment they have them. God, dont you remember the Pakistan/India nuclear exchange as soon as Pakistan got its Bomb? ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/51 "2011-11-10T08:16:27Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Agreed. > > It’s absolutely outrageous and disgusting that the US worked to prevent Germany from getting nukes in WWII. > > If the USA could have them then why couldn’t Germany!? > > Also, what country is “iran” and what country is “israel”? I really hope you’re not chastising macbolan for his spelling: > [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > While I think that Israel is simply going to have to get used to a nuclear Iran and simply hope that Iran doesn’t decide to either launch a nuke at Israel or have one detonated by Hamas terrorists in such a way as to finish the job Hitler started, one would have to be extremely ignorant to not understand why Jews would be terrified of a country that took it’s name to curry favor with Hitler and who’s leadership sponsors conferences claiming the Holocaust was a hoax, presents the Protocols of the Elders of Zion as historical truth, and who’s leaders have called for an extermination of the Jewish state. ---
**Author:** ![mac\_bolan00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b3f665/32.png) [@mac\_bolan00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mac_bolan00)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/52 "2011-11-10T08:51:46Z")
> [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > Because they will destroy the Middle East/Israel the moment they have them. God, dont you remember the Pakistan/India nuclear exchange as soon as Pakistan got its Bomb? strange terms and even stranger assumptions you’re using here. pakistan is just as volatile as iran and (in the eyes of the americans) more devious having allowed osama the great to lounge in comfort there for so long. last time i checked, there hasn’t been any bombs detonated between india and west pakistan. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/53 "2011-11-10T09:00:01Z")
> [@mac\_bolan00](#): > > last time i checked, there hasn’t been any bombs detonated between india and west pakistan. Kind of my point, ain’t it? Pakistan and India have been trading insults and threats for decades, engaged in open and covert conflict and yet, when they both got the Bomb, none of them turned it into a nuclear conflict. ETA: West Pakistan. what, you’re calling Bangladesh, Pakistan East? ---
**Author:** ![mac\_bolan00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b3f665/32.png) [@mac\_bolan00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mac_bolan00)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/54 "2011-11-10T09:01:40Z")
btw, failing to capitalise is not a misspell. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/55 "2011-11-10T10:02:08Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Jews will have to go back to being a people without a home, and eventually they will probably die off from assimilation anyway. Eh? I don’t know about the rest of the world, but South African Jews are in no danger of being assimilated away. Doesn’t really look to me like US Jews are doing so badly either. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/56 "2011-11-10T10:03:30Z")
A nuclear armed Iran is mainly a threat against Saudi Arabia and other neighboring states. Why should Israel (or even the USA) do their dirty work? Let the Saudis deal with it. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/57 "2011-11-10T10:25:57Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > You’re demanding a “cite” for the fact that the Shah backed Hitler and was overthrown by the British during WWII.:dubious: Yep, I am. I did some quick research after you failed to support your contentions earlier, and in my reading I didn’t find any mention of the things you claimed. > [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > This is truly one of the most moronic arguments I’ve ever heard. > > Because something isn’t mention in a wikipedia article it must be false? No, your retort here is one of the most moronic things I’ve ever heard. I didn’t make the claim that it was false, only that your claim has no support that I found. > [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Moreover, wikipedia is an absolutely horrible resource to use for anything related to the Middle East. Ah, but un-researched articles by people I’ve never heard of using no citations of their own, like the cite you finally gave, is not an absolutely horrible resource; got it. > [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I take it back. This was an even more moronic statement. > > Fouad Kazem is an Iranian journalist and academic who, amongst other things, writes for [Iranian.com](http://Iranian.com), an Iranian-American online journal. So he writes for the place you linked to, and those are his credentials: that he writes for that website. Okay… > [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Moreover, this is a statement coming from someone who actually thinks wikipedia a reliable source. Well, when it’s got proper citations and links in the article, yes, I do think it’s a better source than “uncredited opinions and inferences written by a guy who writes things”. > [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Tell me, since you so seem to think you know so much about the country I was born in and my father is from, when was the last time you visited Iran, how good is your Farsi, how many books on Iran have you read, how many Iranians have you talked to and do you know. > > I assume you’re more than just some American who knows nothing of Iran but skimmed an article in wikipedia on it and thinks you’re an expert. > > I’d certainly hope you have a lot more than that if you’re going to insist that Fouad Kazem “has no credibility”. When did I claim to “know so much” about Iran? Could you please cite where I said that, or implied it? Could you cite where I said anything even remotely like I think I’m an expert on Iran? Could you also cite where I insisted that the Fouad Kazem ‘“has no credibility”’? The fact is, to me he’s a complete unknown and you did very little (perhaps “nothing” would be a more apt term) to bolster your claims by citing only one thing, and from an author unknown to the VAST majority of people in the US. If the claims you made were such common knowledge, it shouldn’t have been hard for you to find a number of fact-checked sources to show it (but you didn’t do that). You’re posts are really quite hostile. You seem to take offense at even the slightest criticism or request for you to back up anything you write. ---
**Author:** ![Buchanan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Buchanan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buchanan)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/58 "2011-11-10T13:17:04Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > World sympathy for a nuked Israel should not be an objective of Israeli foreign policy. I didn’t say it was. But you didn’t answer my question and explain why it is fair. If Israel (or any other country) bombs states which are only developing the very same weaponry they already possess, then they deserve all of retaliation they receive. Can China bomb the US because it doesn’t like our Los Alamos R&D? Israeli’s underlying unilateral rights that your neighbors don’t enjoy is what promotes the terrorism and suicide bombing Israel would so much like to escape. This moral superiority leads to situations where the rest of the world (outside of America and important constituencies like Micronesia, Hauru, Palau, and the Marshall Islands)\* unanimously disagree with your position. \*See the numbers UN resolutions on Vote on Peaceful Settlement ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/59 "2011-11-10T13:37:29Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > Why do you assume they can’t. I’d be very surprised if they haven’t been preparing for this event for years as a top priority. The Iranians have **also** been preparing for years for the possibility of an Osirak-style bombing, and they have the home advantage. ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/60 "2011-11-10T13:52:47Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Perhaps a better response is that the guys running Iran are testosterone poisoned and have declared they want to wipe Israel off the map. Of course he never said any such thing. Wasn’t Susa capital of the Mades rather than the Persians? Operation Persepolis, more like. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474.md?page=4)