# Its time for Israel to launch Operation Susa **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 10, 2011, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474 "2011-11-10T03:41:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2011, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/161 "2011-11-13T14:53:17Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I don’t mean to come across as being snarky, because I think Flying is being a bit too certain, but you used the phrase “Inshallah” improperly. I certainly will take your word that I did, since I only know a few phrases in Arabic. I don’t speak the language, so there’s no guarantee that I use what little I know correctly. I don’t take your correction as snark. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2011, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/162 "2011-11-13T15:26:26Z")
> [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > So’s mine, and I’m a betting man. But only a third of my horses actually win. And I only break even on my bets, long-term, which, while it does mean I beat the track cut, it doesn’t mean I can quit my day job on that “profit”… > > Don’t risk your day job over that money. But I see that others have addressed the political and religious questions. Inshallah. Well I don’t bet and I’ve seen my horse win every race since it was foaled, right after in fact. I don’t expect Israel to attempt air strikes until they’ve overcome the obstacles which IMHO is inevitable. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2011, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/163 "2011-11-13T15:30:11Z")
> [@CaveMike](#): > > Why must it be with conventional airstrikes? Why not a continuation of the current methods, for example; [Stuxnet](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuxnet)? Or targeted assassinations? You need to not just make a case that Israel has to take action, but also make a case that airstrikes are the best action. All fine and dandy, but both methods are merely short term delaying actions with no relief in sight. ---
**Author:** ![CaveMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cavemike/32/16379_2.png) [@CaveMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaveMike)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2011, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/164 "2011-11-14T00:54:02Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > All fine and dandy, but both methods are merely short term delaying actions with no relief in sight. You’re asserting that a conventional airstrike is necessary and the only way to permanently limit Iran’s nuclear ambitions. You need to back up that claim with supporting evidence. Just stating it is of no value. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2011, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/165 "2011-11-14T00:58:54Z")
Are you joking? ---
**Author:** ![CaveMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cavemike/32/16379_2.png) [@CaveMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaveMike)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2011, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/166 "2011-11-14T02:06:20Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > Are you joking? My apologies. This is your thread and I thought your intention was to debate your point. If you intend it as a rambling blog post, you might ask to have it moved to MPSIMS. Personally, I am not interested in the unsubstantiated opinions of internet strangers. I’ll just bow out here. ---
**Author:** ![Naxos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/50afbb/32.png) [@Naxos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Naxos)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2011, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/167 "2011-11-14T02:11:50Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > What do you suggest Israel do ? Pick out a nice large area in Siberia, call it Israel, start inviting everyone there, and stop stealing other people’s land. I don’t think there will be much disagreement with that setup. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2011, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/168 "2011-11-14T02:25:46Z")
I see. Do you think that other countries that are built upon “stolen” land should do the same thing? If not, why? Why is it only da jooz who have to do these things? As ludicrous as that suggestion is, I have no doubt that even if Israel were in Siberia, it would still be a technological and scientific powerhouse. No matter where Jews are, they bring technology and progress. Your desire for da jooz to pack up and leave their “stolen” land for Siberia is absurd (Jooz have lived in Israel longer than many of the former-Egyptians-and-Jordanians-now-calling-themselves-Palestinians have). But with that said, I think Siberia is actually a great place for people to settle. The stereotype of it being a wasteland is BS. The region is rich in natural resources, including petroleum. It has the largest forest and the best fishery on the planet. If teh jooz can figure out how to make the desert bloom and create flourishing agriculture in a place where, previously, there was none, they can do the same thing with the tundra. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2011, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/169 "2011-11-14T02:26:27Z")
> [@CaveMike](#): > > My apologies. This is your thread and I thought your intention was to debate your point. If you intend it as a rambling blog post, you might ask to have it moved to MPSIMS. Personally, I am not interested in the unsubstantiated opinions of internet strangers. I’ll just bow out here. You might want to stay out of IMHO. Look, its not up to me to prove a negative. You could offer a viable alternative to airstrikes with a similar probability of long term success, but I don’t believe you can defend it. I’ve already argued why I believe air strikes might very well successfully destroy Iran’s ability to launch a nuclear weapon. Are my facts in dispute ? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2011, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/170 "2011-11-14T02:30:19Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > I’ve already argued why I believe air strikes might very well successfully destroy Iran’s ability to launch a nuclear weapon. Are my facts in dispute ? Well, yes. As has already been pointed out that’s exactly what the Iranians designed the program to survive. Everything is dug in and dispersed; it’s unlikely you could do much damage with non-nuclear airstrikes. ---
**Author:** ![Naxos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/50afbb/32.png) [@Naxos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Naxos)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2011, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/171 "2011-11-14T02:34:55Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > I see. Do you think that other countries that are built upon “stolen” land should do the same thing? If not, why? Yes, I do. There may be some considerations regarding length of time between ownership of a land, and the ownership of the land of occupiers, it will depend on a case by case basis. But stealing a land in the past 60 years and pretend it belongs to the thieves is, at the least, hypocritical garbage. And wrong. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2011, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/172 "2011-11-14T03:33:39Z")
> [@Naxos](#): > > But stealing a land in the past 60 years and pretend it belongs to the thieves is, at the least, hypocritical garbage. Whew. I thought we were going to have to give Arkansas back to the Ouachita. Hey, wait. 2011-1947=64! The Israelis get to stay! ---
**Author:** ![Naxos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/50afbb/32.png) [@Naxos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Naxos)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2011, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/173 "2011-11-14T04:29:56Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I thought we were going to have to give Arkansas back to the Ouachita. Thanks for acknowledging that stealing other people’s land is legitimate. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2011, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/174 "2011-11-14T04:46:36Z")
All of human civilization is built upon “stealing” people’s land. You realize all the borders of all the modern nations of the planet were drawn by conquest and occupation? People are only fixated on izreel because it’s home to the joos. You rarely hear this they-stole-the-land spiel about anyone else, and never from people with _no_ connection to the land in question. You’ll hear it from American Indians - OK, that makes sense. But it’s only Israel…_only_ Israel…that gets condemned for “stealing the land” by people all over the world who have _absolutely no connection to Israel, Palestinians, the Middle East, or anything related to that part of the world._ Do you hear random Americans talking about how Ulster needs to be given back to the Irish, or the Pyrenees to an independent Basque state, or Kosovo to Serbia, or any of those other disputed territories that have _longer histories of being disputed territories_ than Israel does? NO. You do not. Ever. It’s teh joos who get singled out. ---
**Author:** ![Naxos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/50afbb/32.png) [@Naxos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Naxos)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2011, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/175 "2011-11-14T04:50:15Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > All of human civilization is built upon “stealing” people’s land. Thanks for acknowledging that stealing other people’s land is legitimate. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2011, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/176 "2011-11-14T05:11:45Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Well, yes. As has already been pointed out that’s exactly what the Iranians designed the program to survive. Everything is dug in and dispersed; it’s unlikely you could do much damage with non-nuclear airstrikes. [Bunker Busters](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bunker_buster) [GBU-57A/B, Massive Ordnance Penetrator](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massive_Ordnance_Penetrator) ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2011, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/177 "2011-11-14T05:15:54Z")
> [@Naxos](#): > > Pick out a nice large area in Siberia, call it Israel, start inviting everyone there, and stop stealing other people’s land. > > I don’t think there will be much disagreement with that setup. I disagree. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2011, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/178 "2011-11-14T05:17:31Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > [Bunker Busters](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bunker_buster) Which is exactly what the Iranians expected to be used, and built their faculties to stand up to. > [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > [GBU-57A/B, Massive Ordnance Penetrator](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massive_Ordnance_Penetrator) An experimental program, not an existing weapon. And not even an Israeli one. ---
**Author:** ![Naxos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/50afbb/32.png) [@Naxos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Naxos)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2011, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/179 "2011-11-14T05:25:45Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I disagree. I said “not much”. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2011, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474/180 "2011-11-14T05:32:39Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Which is exactly what the Iranians expected to be used, and built their faculties to stand up to. Israel’s enemies have a record of underestimating Israeli capabilities. > [@](#): > > An experimental program, not an existing weapon. And not even an Israeli one. One successfully tested, eight on order. American yes, but if you believe Israel has nuclear weapons, why not superior bunker busters ? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-israel-to-launch-operation-susa/602474.md?page=10)