# It's time for the Democrats to send a clear message to the Republicans! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 5, 2008, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-the-democrats-to-send-a-clear-message-to-the-republicans/444073 "2008-04-05T13:40:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2008, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-the-democrats-to-send-a-clear-message-to-the-republicans/444073/41 "2008-04-05T20:14:19Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] That is **not** a defining characteristic of a [parliamentary system](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliamentary_system). [/QUOTE] Oh, fuck. Quasi-parliamentary system. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2008, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-the-democrats-to-send-a-clear-message-to-the-republicans/444073/42 "2008-04-05T20:22:06Z")
[QUOTE=Sam Stone] Man, if Democrats want ‘to show Americans a positive alternative to the toxic politics of race’ they’re doing a horrible job of it. If anything this whole thing is showing just how much identity politics have infested the Democratic party. [/QUOTE] And it hasn’t infested the squeaky-white, largely anti-brown GOP? When the delegates show up in Minneapolis, let’s take a look at the sea of faces. And we’ll see if the GOP looks like something other than the Aging White Guy party. I know, White Guy identity politics doesn’t count as identity politics - it’s just the default. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2008, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-the-democrats-to-send-a-clear-message-to-the-republicans/444073/43 "2008-04-05T20:39:09Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] And it hasn’t infested the squeaky-white, largely anti-brown GOP? When the delegates show up in Minneapolis, let’s take a look at the sea of faces. And we’ll see if the GOP looks like something other than the Aging White Guy party. I know, White Guy identity politics doesn’t count as identity politics - it’s just the default. :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] You mean the squeaky white party that has had two black Secretaries of State, appointed the first black Supreme Court Justice, tried to draft Colin Powell for president (without any handwringing about his race that I can recall), and who has Bobby Jindal as a rising star in the party? That one? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2008, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-the-democrats-to-send-a-clear-message-to-the-republicans/444073/44 "2008-04-05T20:58:28Z")
[QUOTE=Sam Stone] appointed the first black Supreme Court Justice [/QUOTE] I had no idea Kennedy was a Republican… ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2008, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-the-democrats-to-send-a-clear-message-to-the-republicans/444073/45 "2008-04-05T21:05:35Z")
[QUOTE=Sam Stone] You mean the squeaky white party that has had two black Secretaries of State, appointed the first black Supreme Court Justice, tried to draft Colin Powell for president (without any handwringing about his race that I can recall), and who has Bobby Jindal as a rising star in the party? That one? [/QUOTE] Yep, the one that takes every black face in the party and puts it up on stage, in the hopes of making people overlook the absence of black faces in the pews. It’s like affirmative action taken to some bizarre extreme - like taking every janitor in the building and pretending they’re assistant veeps or something, in order to counteract the impression of lily-whiteness. Condi “Birth pangs of a new Middle East” Rice, who’s on your list here, is the classic example of this. She was a total fuckup as national security advisor (the incumbent is supposed to, among other things, make sure State and Defense are on the same page when they need to be, and they needed to be in early 2003, and totally weren’t), and was promoted to be a total fuckup at State. Oh, and it was a completely different GOP that appointed Thurgood Marshall to the Supreme Court. And Jindal doesn’t belong to any minority that’s had a history of suffering from hostility in this country. I think that leaves you with Powell. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2008, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-the-democrats-to-send-a-clear-message-to-the-republicans/444073/46 "2008-04-05T21:05:58Z")
[QUOTE=BobLibDem] Nope, being a former First Lady had nothing to do with all the Democrats in New York stepping aside for her _first_ elected position, US Senator. [/QUOTE] Ah. Her winning election to the Senate, twice (which is twice as often as Obama, note), was entirely due to the magic power the Clintons have to force not only other pols but the voters themselves to do their evil bidding. \*Not \* from any actual evaluation by the voters of new York of her ability and determination and performance. Got it. :rolleyes: **Sam** , perhaps you can see past the exceptions, so rare you’re forced to list them by name (and not even correctly), and look at the rule, just for once, willya? > [@Phlosphr](#): > > My point in the OP was really to illustrate a union I hope to see coming soon down the road, a united front against the republicans Would that hope entail actually attracting, rather than slamming, those who think Clinton is a more likely candidate to either win or be a better President? Sure would help, wouldn’t it, huh? Maybe you could help convince **Shayna** of that. If, that is, you’re truly convinced of it yourself. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2008, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-the-democrats-to-send-a-clear-message-to-the-republicans/444073/47 "2008-04-05T21:13:55Z")
I don’t see how anybody could lose to the Repubs this year. A stupid war ,world hates us and economy in the dumps. Problem is ,can it be fixed. ? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2008, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-the-democrats-to-send-a-clear-message-to-the-republicans/444073/48 "2008-04-05T21:14:09Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] Oh, and it was a completely different GOP that appointed Thurgood Marshall to the Supreme Court. [/QUOTE] Don’t follow **Sam’s** framing. It was Johnson who appointed Marshall to the Supreme Court, in 1967, not a Republican. I was wrong in calling it Kennedy, but I got the party right. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2008, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-the-democrats-to-send-a-clear-message-to-the-republicans/444073/49 "2008-04-05T21:19:58Z")
[QUOTE=jayjay] Don’t follow **Sam’s** framing. It was Johnson who appointed Marshall to the Supreme Court, in 1967, not a Republican. I was wrong in calling it Kennedy, but I got the party right. [/QUOTE] Thanks for looking that up. Usually **Sam** doesn’t misfire on basic facts like that, so I didn’t question it. Same result, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2008, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-the-democrats-to-send-a-clear-message-to-the-republicans/444073/50 "2008-04-05T21:20:47Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] I don’t see how anybody could lose to the Repubs this year. A stupid war ,world hates us and economy in the dumps. Problem is ,can it be fixed. ? [/QUOTE] What did you think four years ago? The same thing, right? The situation favors the Democrats, but only with hard, effective work in the rest of the campaign season. Which, for the record, is as long as an entire baseball season. We just had Opening Day. The election isn’t until after the World Series. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2008, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-the-democrats-to-send-a-clear-message-to-the-republicans/444073/51 "2008-04-05T21:26:41Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] Thanks for looking that up. Usually **Sam** doesn’t misfire on basic facts like that, so I didn’t question it. Same result, anyway. [/QUOTE] I can’t quite figure out if he actually thought Nixon appointed Marshall, or if he thought Clarence Thomas was the first African-American Justice. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2008, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-the-democrats-to-send-a-clear-message-to-the-republicans/444073/52 "2008-04-05T22:45:04Z")
I have to admit, I forgot about Thurgood Marshall. D’oh! ---
**Author:** ![tds1273](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/df705f/32.png) [@tds1273](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tds1273)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2008, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-the-democrats-to-send-a-clear-message-to-the-republicans/444073/53 "2008-04-07T20:10:12Z")
After our County Convention here in Washington (Go 37th Dems!), seeing the turnout(fueled by our [national record setting caucuses](http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/351601_caucus16.html)), feeling the electricity and excitement in the air, and listening to our great Congressman Jim McDermott; I no longer buy the ‘Hillary needs to step out now’ meme. As Rep. McDermott was saying, by keeping our primaries still going it is also still keeping our grassroots invigorated. It is also so very important that these later states still matter, and are still excited and involved. Given the constant coverage, time takes forever in the world of politics, and it becomes easy for people to settle in to a malaise, go apathetic, and fall back out of the process. We have sent a message. I know it is said you can’t well predict general election numbers from primaries, but given the types of turn outs we’ve had across this Country this year, I think we can get at least a good idea. Sure Mccain has made some movement in the polls, but that’s only because his boneheaded, Bush-league policies are on page 2, or in passing on the nightly news. Just wait till we get to the actual general election debates and watch his numbers plummet. It will be like night and day. (sorry, bad pun intended ::d&r:🙂 Could Hillary run a better campaign? Good Og yes! However, she is only really hurting herself at this point. This whole time it seems as she has been trying to play the role of the Republican, except for certain occasions where she takes an interesting step to the left of Obama, mandating healthcare for example, which actually helps him in the general as well. Look at it this way, people of all types have already become sick of the prejudice, petty, and partisan bullshit and before the Republican have even had a chance to try and fling it themselves. Plus the longer she ‘hangs in there’ the more the momentum and enthusiasm begins to build behind _really_ rallying support for Obama and the clear change he brings; this thread for example. Sit back, take some time off from this stuff while you can(but stay involved when you must), and try to relax. Go back and look at the early debates; look at how much Obama has grown as a candidate, as a leader since then. Look at the way he elevated himself from ‘Pastor-fencedoor’. It sounds weird to say, but despite the m$m trying to tell us otherwise(and why would do you think they would say so?) I think Obama _is_ better off for having Hillary still in this; it sounds like he thinks so too. Finally and besides, Obama will go to the National Convention as the clear nominee. The “news” never talks about it, and I doubt it will even get that far, but Oregon is Obama’s own firewall. He will easily win there with another, at least 2-1 victory. Notice they picked there to have Richardson announce his endorsement? ---
**Author:** ![tds1273](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/df705f/32.png) [@tds1273](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tds1273)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2008, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-the-democrats-to-send-a-clear-message-to-the-republicans/444073/54 "2008-04-07T20:18:05Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] I think that leaves you with Powell. [/QUOTE] Funny, and perhaps fortunate, isn’t it? Had this administration not thrown him head first in front of the bus, he would most likely be a virtual lock for the Presidency this time around; more so than any of the three candidates right now. He has gone from that to a mere political memory at this point. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2008, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-the-democrats-to-send-a-clear-message-to-the-republicans/444073/55 "2008-04-07T21:05:02Z")
For the last several weeks, the echoed murmuring has said that McCain has the advantage as long as the Democrats are fighting each other. It hasn’t worked out that way. Competition is newsworthy, so they’re grabbing all the news coverage. McCain is just being himself, a boring old coot who promised us on the White House steps that nothing will change if he’s elected. The primaries aren’t over yet, and I think we’ll see a locked in winner before long. It is obvious from the friendly attitudes on the campaign trail that the winner will have the loser’s backing. We’re Obamanites, here in the house of Nott. I hope he’ll be the one to wear the “love hat” Philosphr mentioned. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2008, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-the-democrats-to-send-a-clear-message-to-the-republicans/444073/56 "2008-04-07T21:18:57Z")
[QUOTE=AskNott] For the last several weeks, the echoed murmuring has said that McCain has the advantage as long as the Democrats are fighting each other. It hasn’t worked out that way. Competition is newsworthy, so they’re grabbing all the news coverage. McCain is just being himself, a boring old coot who promised us on the White House steps that nothing will change if he’s elected. The primaries aren’t over yet, and I think we’ll see a locked in winner before long. It is obvious from the friendly attitudes on the campaign trail that the winner will have the loser’s backing. We’re Obamanites, here in the house of Nott. I hope he’ll be the one to wear the “love hat” Philosphr mentioned. 😛 [/QUOTE] 😃 Heh - My mind shifts like the tide, every six hours or so something else pops in and signals a time to reevaluate. 🙂 I keep reminding myself that this is all politicking as usual, and I agree to some extend with the idea that McCain is a boring old Coot, but he happens to be a boring old coot who is a bonafide war hero, and the republican nominee -therefore he’s dangerous to the dem nominee. Baring something very odd, I don’t see Obama losing to him, I feel that even is 25% of Clinton’s fans come out for Barack, we’ll be victorious in the end. I just keep picturing Obama giving his inaugural address and the first state of the union, and those little girls of his playing in the oval office. I think it was the blue coolaide in the fridge I was drinking today in case anyone’s wondering 😃 Hell if I didn’t have a [sense of humor](http://www.imagemole.com/img/t1_hillary_clinton_funny.jpg) about this race, I’d have had a nervous breakdown by now 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2008, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-the-democrats-to-send-a-clear-message-to-the-republicans/444073/57 "2008-04-07T21:23:25Z")
[QUOTE=tds1273] Funny, and perhaps fortunate, isn’t it? Had this administration not thrown him head first in front of the bus, he would most likely be a virtual lock for the Presidency this time around; more so than any of the three candidates right now. He has gone from that to a mere political memory at this point. [/QUOTE] Well, except for the fact that he has never had any desire to even _run_ for the Presidency. > [@](#): > > [Read AARP The Magazine Online in Members Edition](http://www.aarpmagazine.org/people/colin_powell.html) > > . . . > > **Q: Speaking of that: given that there are issues in this country that need fixing, and you seem to have a vision, under any circumstances would you…** > A: No. > > **Q: …run for president? Under no circumstances? Even though you said in your book you would not rule out a political future?** > A: I took a hard look at it in '95, really never expected that level of interest in me as a political figure, but the book, and my book tour, exploded that interest. And I realized that this was not something I truly wanted to do. I never woke up any morning saying, “My God, I can’t wait to get out on the campaign trail.” I don’t have that passion. And it was not something my family wanted to do, meaning my wife. But it was basically my decision. We never had to have the final climactic family meeting over it. We finally stopped listening to everybody who was trying to tell us what to do with our lives and said, “What do we want to do?” And not a lot of us thought we wanted to do this. So it was a mutual decision. > > **Q: In one interview Alma said she would support you if you ran, but she was trusting you not to.** > A: That’s the closest she ever snuck up to that. And for a minute there I was appalled. And then she fixed it in that very last phrase: “I trust him not to.” So she was very cleverly dumping it on me and then pulling it right back. She would always say something like “I will support him” because she supported me everywhere I went, and never unwillingly. So when she said, “Of course I would support him,” that would have created headlines the next day. Because everybody knew what Alma really thought. And then she said, “But I trust him,” with the words dripping with irony and threats. > > **Q: What if somebody, like John McCain, recruited you for vice president? [Powell shakes his head no.] No, you’re not interested?** > A: I’m not interested in elected politics. I get the question every day, and I try to be as honest as I can about it. > > . . . ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2008, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-the-democrats-to-send-a-clear-message-to-the-republicans/444073/58 "2008-04-07T21:52:33Z")
One of the things Obama has that Powell did not is the desire to put all of his efforts into a presidency. Powell thought he would not be able to rally enough people, and he did not want to put his wife through the hell of a presidencial campaign. In 1995 he would have been right. Now in 2008 what you have with Obama is basically the fix’ins for a perfect storm of sorts on the democratic political front. You’ve got a young intelligent man who see’s an opportunity and knows he can bring it all the way to the white house. Obama has put together one of the best political campaigning machines ever to hit the pavement, marry that with fortitude, Harvard Smarts, a proven track record of achievement and a smattering of failings, and you’ve got what you see right now in Barack Obama. ---
**Author:** ![tds1273](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/df705f/32.png) [@tds1273](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tds1273)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2008, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-the-democrats-to-send-a-clear-message-to-the-republicans/444073/59 "2008-04-07T22:19:35Z")
Huh, I was not aware of how uninterested he was in running. I have never really followed politics until the last few years. On the plus side, at least the surge in the war on ignorance seems to have be successful. ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2008, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-the-democrats-to-send-a-clear-message-to-the-republicans/444073/60 "2008-04-07T22:41:45Z")
[QUOTE=tds1273] Huh, I was not aware of how uninterested he was in running. I have never really followed politics until the last few years. On the plus side, at least the surge in the war on ignorance seems to have be successful. [/QUOTE] Well that’s why your here now isn’t it! 😉 😃 All the best young grasshopper! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-for-the-democrats-to-send-a-clear-message-to-the-republicans/444073.md?page=2)