# It's time to liquidate the Catholic Church **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 27, 2003, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-liquidate-the-catholic-church/221305 "2003-12-27T21:02:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2004, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-liquidate-the-catholic-church/221305/41 "2004-04-09T01:29:05Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > However, our esteemed OP is doing the exact same thing. Since **he** has problems with Catholicism, and presumably justifiable complaints about it, the obvious thing to do is to get rid of it entirely. It’s not the same. I’m not saying shut down the Church because it’s violating _my_ principles, but rather because it has too much violated **its own.** It is rotten with hypocrisy and betrayed its members way beyond any forgivable or acceptable limit. The Church today exists primarily as a store of vast wealth: land, buildings, priceless art, etc. The clergy have a vested interest in keeping the whole shebang going. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2004, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-liquidate-the-catholic-church/221305/42 "2004-04-09T01:30:39Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > ooooooh! How clever! Nah, just a childish expression of annoyance. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2004, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-liquidate-the-catholic-church/221305/43 "2004-04-09T01:34:14Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > Don’t forget - most Americans don’t vote - I think it is clear that our Republic is not working. We should nix that and just make a monarchy. Why a monarchy when we can have a fascist dictatorship under Furher Bush? > [@](#): > > Why is this thread alive? Because it _wants_ to be. > [@](#): > > It is a blatant rabble rousing attempt and general assault against organized religion, nevermind a violation of freedom of religion and the religion’s rights to independently exist. Freedom of religion, certainly. The Church, on the other hand, is practically a criminal gang at this point. > [@](#): > > It has as much right to exist as you do, and I’m sorry that your blatantly counter-culture poser values are insulted by something that you don’t agree with on principle, but that’s how life is. I doubt you’d understand my values much, good friend. ---
**Author:** ![Sqube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Sqube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sqube)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2004, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-liquidate-the-catholic-church/221305/44 "2004-04-09T01:44:45Z")
It’s alive because you bumped it, not because it wanted to be. Just thought I’d make that clear to you first off. > [@spectrum](#): > > Cite? > > What is your evidence that the doctrines and teachings of Roman Catholicism are bullshit? What is your proof? IE, where is your chaser? > > (Note: I am not a Roman Catholic) Here’s my WAG as to why you want the Church liquidated: First of all, it has nothing to do with the above quote. After reading your OP, you were doing your damndest to ignore the sexual scandal that was sweeping the Church. As long as you could ignore it, you were fine. Once you couldn’t ignore it anymore, you were so scandalized that you decided we would be better off without the Catholic Church altogether. As Salvor Hardin said in Foundation, “Such folly smacks of genius. A lesser mind would be incapable of it.” For the record, you still haven’t answered **spectrum** ’s question. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2004, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-liquidate-the-catholic-church/221305/45 "2004-04-09T02:20:41Z")
> [@Sqube](#): > > It’s alive because you bumped it, not because it wanted to be. Just thought I’d make that clear to you first off. > > Here’s my WAG as to why you want the Church liquidated: First of all, it has nothing to do with the above quote. After reading your OP, you were doing your damndest to ignore the sexual scandal that was sweeping the Church. As long as you could ignore it, you were fine. Once you couldn’t ignore it anymore, you were so scandalized that you decided we would be better off without the Catholic Church altogether. > > As Salvor Hardin said in Foundation, “Such folly smacks of genius. A lesser mind would be incapable of it.” > > For the record, you still haven’t answered **spectrum** ’s question. I haven’t answered the question because–well, look at the OP again–the reason to liquidate is NOT based on the truth or falsity of the Church’s doctrines. As for your WAG, it’s not on the right track. ---
**Author:** ![Canadjun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@Canadjun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Canadjun)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2004, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-liquidate-the-catholic-church/221305/46 "2004-04-09T02:29:52Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > It’s not the same. I’m not saying shut down the Church because it’s violating _my_ principles, but rather because it has too much violated **its own.** It is rotten with hypocrisy and betrayed its members way beyond any forgivable or acceptable limit. > > The Church today exists primarily as a store of vast wealth: land, buildings, priceless art, etc. The clergy have a vested interest in keeping the whole shebang going. If its members feel unforgivably betrayed then its members can shut it down; it’s not up to others to decide whether it should be shut down. The clergy may have a vested interest in keeping it going, but in the absence of viable congregations no amount of vested interest will sustain it. It’s not up to a non-catholic to decide how the catholic church should be run, just as it’s not up to a Jew to decide how a mosque should be run. And, by the way, I am atheist. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2004, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-liquidate-the-catholic-church/221305/47 "2004-04-09T02:39:54Z")
If the Catholic Church is liquidated, to whom are its assets to be distributed? Does every Catholic communicant get an equal share? (Perhaps I should convert . . .) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2004, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-liquidate-the-catholic-church/221305/48 "2004-04-09T02:43:48Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > Hey, why stop with the Roman Catholics? > > The Episcopalian Church in the U.S. is right in the middle of a schism over the issue of gay clergy. Obviously a church divided against itself can not stand, so why don’t we do everyone a favor and give it the final nudge? > > Other old line protestant denominations – Methodists, Presbyterians, Lutherans, the United Church of Christ, etc. have been seeing their enrollment drop for decades. Clearly their business model is so bad that they can’t attract enough replacement customers to cover their losses, so out they go! > > Don’t stop there. [http://www.adherents.com/rel\_USA.html](http://www.adherents.com/rel_USA.html) Did you know that fewer than 2% of Americans define themselves as Jewish, and only .5% as Islamic – and both those religions are divided into different sects? The marketplace has spoken. You’re fired! > > And before the nonbelievers get too smug, fewer than 2 million Americans identify themselves as atheist, agnostic, humanist or “new age.” Granted, the numbers are increasing, so we’ll put you on probation. But if we don’t see some truly significant numbers by 2010 – at least the same number as call themselves Buddhist – you’re going to have to join a church. Interesting statistics. If the traditional churches are in decline, but few Americans identify themselves as atheists or nontraditional religious believers – then what exactly **do** most of the American people believe in, these days? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2004, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-liquidate-the-catholic-church/221305/49 "2004-04-09T03:12:10Z")
The churches that are growing are not the old line denominations mentioned. Oftentimes, they aren’t denominations at all, but independent congregations. These churches often fall into categories of protestant Christianity that can be characterized as either charismatic or fundamentalist. The denomination that has been growing fastest is the LDS church (Mormon). Between 1990 and 2000, their ranks grew by more than 19%. The 90’s also saw double-digit growth in the ranks of the more conservative Chriatian Churches and Churches of Christ, the Assemblies of God, and the Roman Catholic Church. The churches that are in decline are usually ones that have rejected traditional Chriatian teaching in favor of a more modern, less dogmatic approach. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2004, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-liquidate-the-catholic-church/221305/50 "2004-04-09T03:13:31Z")
Source for the above: [http://www.emmitsburgdispatch.com/2002/December/americanchurches.shtml](http://www.emmitsburgdispatch.com/2002/December/americanchurches.shtml) ---
**Author:** ![wonderwench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/35a633/32.png) [@wonderwench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonderwench)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2004, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-liquidate-the-catholic-church/221305/51 "2004-04-09T03:19:00Z")
I was raised Catholic, and now consider myself a recovering one. Just as an alcoholic is always an alcoholic, the vestiges of Catholocism have deep roots. In the latter case, the roots are guilt aimed at mind control. A religion that teaches little children that they were Born Bad To The Bone is an evil institution. Unfortunately, there are no shareholders to which the Church owes a distribution if liquidated. Mores the pity. ---
**Author:** ![Lissla\_Lissar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lissla\_Lissar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissla_Lissar)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2004, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-liquidate-the-catholic-church/221305/52 "2004-04-09T03:43:44Z")
Wow, neat. This thread has actually strengthened my resolve to become Catholic as soon as I can take the catechism classes. One of those ‘being-lectured-not-to-do-something-makes-me-want-to-run-out-and-do-it’ things. And there still haven’t been any good cites or arguments or anything. And I pray the Rosary daily, thank you very much. And so do the several young people I know who are also becoming Catholic. So much for a dead religion. _Lissla, raised Anglican_ ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2004, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-liquidate-the-catholic-church/221305/53 "2004-04-09T03:45:00Z")
> [@](#): > > A religion that teaches little children that they were Born Bad To The Bone is an evil institution. I suppose. On the other hand, I was raised _very_ Catholic in the pre-Vatican II church by an Irish mother (stereotypical Jewish mothers have nothing on Irish Catholic mothers for guilt), and I was never taught to feel that I was all bad, so perhaps the problem is more one of personality or local culture than church teaching. ---
**Author:** ![wonderwench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/35a633/32.png) [@wonderwench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonderwench)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2004, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-liquidate-the-catholic-church/221305/54 "2004-04-09T03:51:10Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > I suppose. On the other hand, I was raised _very_ Catholic in the pre-Vatican II church by an Irish mother (stereotypical Jewish mothers have nothing on Irish Catholic mothers for guilt), and I was never taught to feel that I was all bad, so perhaps the problem is more one of personality or local culture than church teaching. I have heard is said that the Jews rent Guilt. The Catholics own it. Parents certainly have a big influence in how damaging Catholicism becomes. The Irish (my dad included) have a pagan/celtic streak that often keeps self-image at a positive level. ---
**Author:** ![wonderwench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/35a633/32.png) [@wonderwench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonderwench)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2004, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-liquidate-the-catholic-church/221305/55 "2004-04-09T03:53:02Z")
> [@wonderwench](#): > > I have heard is said that the Jews rent Guilt. The Catholics own it. > > Parents certainly have a big influence in how damaging Catholicism becomes. The Irish (my dad included) have a pagan/celtic streak that often keeps self-image at a positive level. Why cannot one edit one’s posts? Quite annoying… ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2004, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-liquidate-the-catholic-church/221305/56 "2004-04-09T04:12:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Why cannot one edit one’s posts? Past posters demonstrating a willingness to post flames, then delete the flames, point to hostile responses, and pretend they were the injured parties. Try using Preview before submitting. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2004, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-liquidate-the-catholic-church/221305/57 "2004-04-09T08:06:48Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > The churches that are growing are not the old line denominations mentioned. Oftentimes, they aren’t denominations at all, but independent congregations. > > These churches often fall into categories of protestant Christianity that can be characterized as either charismatic or fundamentalist. > > The denomination that has been growing fastest is the LDS church (Mormon). Between 1990 and 2000, their ranks grew by more than 19%. > > The 90’s also saw double-digit growth in the ranks of the more conservative Chriatian Churches and Churches of Christ, the Assemblies of God, and the Roman Catholic Church. > > The churches that are in decline are usually ones that have rejected traditional Chriatian teaching in favor of a more modern, less dogmatic approach. _Sigh._ More votes for Bush, I suppose… ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2004, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-liquidate-the-catholic-church/221305/58 "2004-04-09T08:15:21Z")
> [@Lissla Lissar](#): > > Wow, neat. This thread has actually strengthened my resolve to become Catholic as soon as I can take the catechism classes. One of those ‘being-lectured-not-to-do-something-makes-me-want-to-run-out-and-do-it’ things. Lissla: It wasn’t peer pressure that made me. No sssir. It wazza gawddamm preechin’ that drove me to it: “Don’t, Lissla–it’s bad! It’s corrupt!” Them nags made me! Bartender: What, drink licker? Lissla: No! Say the gawddamm Rosary! Another double! [Mumbling] Hail Mary, youse fulla grace… ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2004, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-liquidate-the-catholic-church/221305/59 "2004-04-09T08:17:30Z")
> [@wonderwench](#): > > Unfortunately, there are no shareholders to which the Church owes a distribution if liquidated. Mores the pity. People scared shitless by preachers warning of hell for contraception users: 10 shares. Auto de fe victims: 150 shares. Et cetera, filioque, ceteris peribus… ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2004, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-liquidate-the-catholic-church/221305/60 "2004-04-09T19:03:04Z")
\< 😕 \> I thought this lame OP was in “Great Debates”, not “The Pit”. \ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-liquidate-the-catholic-church/221305.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-liquidate-the-catholic-church/221305.md?page=4)