# It's time to officially Pit Joe Paterno and the Penn State football program. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 7, 2011, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167 "2011-11-07T14:23:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/201 "2011-11-08T18:09:47Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > I’m still confused by the fact that Schultz and Curley have both been indicted for what they knew and didn’t report to police, which was reported to them by Paterno, but somehow we “still don’t know if Paterno actually knew anything or not”. Doesn’t the fact that the AD and VP are being indicted based on knowledge they were provided by Paterno pretty much eliminate the argument that Paterno didn’t know anything? The official story (from the indictment) was that McQuearey told JP **something** , but that he was not super-explicit (perhaps), just (perhaps) indicating that there had been fishy sexualized behavior. JP reported to Curley. Curley and Schultz **separately and without JP being present** followed up with McQuearey, who used (per sworn testimony) the phrase “anal intercourse with a ten year old.” So the prosecutors draw the distinction based on (a) at least Paterno kicked it upstairs, whereas Curley and Schultz affirmatively suppressed (and later lied about under oath) it; and (b) no one has been willing to swear so far that Paterno heard any specific, detailed allegation of particular sexual contact. And, I guess, (c) no one’s been able to prove that Paterno lied under oath. As I’ve said before, that’s a pretty bogus distinction, but that’s the history. ---
**Author:** ![Hbns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hbns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hbns)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/202 "2011-11-08T18:12:00Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > If I see a child being raped, I am calling 911 right then. If you tell me that you saw a child being raped, I am calling 911 right then. Another reaction is bullshit. In my mind there is no way to find fault with Paterno’s actions and not also fault McQueary. If one has a moral obligation to go to the police after notifying superiors, so does the other. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/203 "2011-11-08T18:14:56Z")
> [@Hbns](#): > > In my mind there is no way to find fault with Paterno’s actions and not also fault McQueary. If one has a moral obligation to go to the police after notifying superiors, so does the other. No one’s defended McQueary here, you know. Grading moral culpability is a relative thing, and Paterno suffers in comparison because of his leadership role, etc., but McQueary, pending any exculpatory information coming out, comes off as a moron **at best** , probably something worse than that. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/204 "2011-11-08T18:20:27Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > So the prosecutors draw the distinction based on (a) at least Paterno kicked it upstairs, whereas Curley and Schultz affirmatively suppressed (and later lied about under oath) it; and (b) no one has been willing to swear so far that Paterno heard any specific, detailed allegation of particular sexual contact. And, I guess, (c) no one’s been able to prove that Paterno lied under oath. That’s a pretty thin distinction, but thank you for the explanation. I think if **SA** can state that anal rape was “unlikely” to have occurred due to the lack of blood curdling screams, I can state that it was equally unlikely that McQueary told Paterno that he may or may not have seen some “playful roughhousing in the shower with a 10 year old boy”. He may have done his minimum legal requirement, but he didn’t satisfy the basic human requirement to tell authorities. ---
**Author:** ![redtail23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3e96dc/32.png) [@redtail23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/redtail23)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/205 "2011-11-08T18:21:38Z")
> [@villa](#): > > It wasn’t my intent to suggest conservatives as a rule would. Just that SA is so staggeringly blinkered he’d honestly believe it impossible for an older right wing man to have moral failings. Well of course they can’t. They’re polite and wear nice clothes. That is what’s really important, after all. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/206 "2011-11-08T18:24:07Z")
> [@villa](#): > > It wasn’t my intent to suggest conservatives as a rule would. Just that SA is so staggeringly blinkered he’d honestly believe it impossible for an older right wing man to have moral failings. Has anyone noticed that Joe Paterno got the job at Penn State at just about the same time that **Starving Artist** thinks that America started to go to hell in a handbasket? Coincidence? You be the judge. Maybe it wasn’t liberals who ruined America after all. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/207 "2011-11-08T18:27:27Z")
**Duke** - Right now may be the only time in his tenure that Spanier could fire Paterno. Spanier is pretty much guaranteed to be on his way out involuntarily anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/208 "2011-11-08T18:30:35Z")
The [New York Times](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/09/sports/ncaafootball/penn-state-said-to-be-planning-paternos-exit.html?smid=tw-nytimes&seid=auto) says he will be forced out soon. Days or weeks. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/209 "2011-11-08T18:34:40Z")
I’d love to see the Penn State players show up for the next game, line up, then when the ball is in play just stand up and walk off the field as a form of protest. Making a statement to pretty much everyone there and everyone involved that there are, gasp, some things more important than a damn game/sports program. Of course I pretty much hate organized sports and some folks near obsession with it as it is so I don’t expect anything like this to happen or garner much, if any support. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/210 "2011-11-08T18:35:32Z")
> [@Hbns](#): > > In my mind there is no way to find fault with Paterno’s actions and not also fault McQueary. If one has a moral obligation to go to the police after notifying superiors, so does the other. What I want to know is how in the fuck do you witness a child being raped and not try to stop it right then and there? How in the fuck to you see that and tip toe out of the room to talk to your dad about it and then schedule a meeting with a coach leaving a child to continue to be raped? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/211 "2011-11-08T18:48:25Z")
> [@Crotalus](#): > > The [New York Times](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/09/sports/ncaafootball/penn-state-said-to-be-planning-paternos-exit.html?smid=tw-nytimes&seid=auto) says he will be forced out soon. Days or weeks. I’m still appalled that they haven’t already put him on administrative leave while they figure out how and when to permanently push him out the door. I mean, are they going to let him coach the game this Saturday? That would be insane. But if they’re not, they really should put him on admin leave right now so that the team can prep for the game without waiting for the other shoe to drop, if for no better reason. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/212 "2011-11-08T18:51:09Z")
I think it will be hours if not minutes. They already canceled his press conference for today. HuffPo and MSNBC are saying that PSU is preparing to push him out. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/213 "2011-11-08T18:54:28Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > I’d love to see the Penn State players show up for the next game, line up, then when the ball is in play just stand up and walk off the field as a form of protest. I’m thinking a better protest would be to see the student section totally empty. It’s one thing to expect the players–who are totally blameless in all this–to potentially jeopardize their scholarships by effectively going on strike. They know most of the team is not going to make it to the NFL and that degree is all they’re going to get out of Penn State. But the students…how can you go to the game and sing “For the Glory” after this? How do you tailgate or do the stadium walk after this? I couldn’t, no way. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/214 "2011-11-08T18:59:09Z")
That would be good too. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/215 "2011-11-08T19:06:54Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > What I want to know is how in the fuck do you witness a child being raped and not try to stop it right then and there? How in the fuck to you see that and tip toe out of the room to talk to your dad about it and then schedule a meeting with a coach leaving a child to continue to be raped? I agree. Aside from Sandusky himself, McQueary seems to have behaved the worst here. I’m trying to imagine witnessing a rape in my workplace and imagining what I would do. Physically intervening is the first thing that comes to mind, and calling 911 is the second. Calling my father or scheduling a meeting to tell my boss somehow didn’t appear on the list. Is the place football holds in these people’s minds so warped that normal human behavior doesn’t even occur to them? To hell with the child, what might this do to THE PROGRAM? Geez. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/216 "2011-11-08T19:20:33Z")
> [@Crotalus](#): > > To hell with the child, what might this do to THE PROGRAM? Geez. Or your career. McQueary went from Graduate Assistant on the team to Assistant Coach-Wide Receivers and Head of Recruitment in 9 years. Pays to hold your tongue, don’t it? He’s a “company man”, so to speak. Came up from the player base, got his shot, made his bones by keeping quiet…the alternative was to be known in the NCAA as not being a team player. Even for something as horrid as this, his loyalty would have been questioned, and he’d never get an in in college sports. Nobody looks good in this whole thing. Not one person in the chain of reportage. It’s just horrible. ---
**Author:** ![SnakesCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@SnakesCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakesCatLady)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/217 "2011-11-08T19:21:50Z")
Aside for the sexual abuse victims, I feel sorry for the Penn State football players. I’ve read talk about “cancelling their season”; I think that’s unlikely to happen but these players are not guilty of anything but wanting to play football for what they thought was a good program. Hope they can get scholarships to transfer to different schools. And even though I feel bad for the players, I hope the stands for the upcoming games are empty. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/218 "2011-11-08T19:24:21Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > What I want to know is how in the fuck do you witness a child being raped and not try to stop it right then and there? How in the fuck to you see that and tip toe out of the room to talk to your dad about it and then schedule a meeting with a coach leaving a child to continue to be raped? Thats not fair. He yelled to the kid “just think of England!” before he scooted on outa there. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/219 "2011-11-08T19:27:52Z")
> [@SnakesCatLady](#): > > And even though I feel bad for the players, I hope the stands for the upcoming games are empty. The thing is, if you cut Penn State out of the NCAA, the entire economy up there goes kaboom. Everything within about a 20-mile radius of the campus IS Nittany Lions. Which is one of the reasons Uncle Joe is God in Happy Valley. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/220 "2011-11-08T19:40:25Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Or your career. McQueary went from Graduate Assistant on the team to Assistant Coach-Wide Receivers and Head of Recruitment in 9 years. Pays to hold your tongue, don’t it? > > He’s a “company man”, so to speak. Came up from the player base, got his shot, made his bones by keeping quiet…the alternative was to be known in the NCAA as not being a team player. Even for something as horrid as this, his loyalty would have been questioned, and he’d never get an in in college sports. > > Nobody looks good in this whole thing. Not one person in the chain of reportage. It’s just horrible. Yeah, you’re right, I forgot about that part. That makes it even worse. I can’t imagine in the heat of that moment thinking of anything but helping that kid and calling the cops on that predator. What could this do to my career? I can’t see that thought coming to mind. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167.md?page=12)