# It's time to officially Pit Joe Paterno and the Penn State football program. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 7, 2011, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167 "2011-11-07T14:23:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 129
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/2562 "2012-02-05T00:23:29Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > He’s being charged for each crime, dumbass. Not just one. What makes you think I believe he’s being charged with only one crime? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/2563 "2012-02-05T00:25:42Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > You saved me the effort, thanks. Indeed. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/2564 "2012-02-05T00:26:03Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I think we have to presume for lack of testimony otherwise the apparently benign expressions on their faces. Why would McQueary testify as to their turning to look at him but not to copulatory expressions on Sandusky’s face and pain or distress on the boy’s face? I’m going to start calling you on every fabrication and lie. There is NO evidence of “apparently benign expressions on their face.” You just made that shit up. The fact that McQueary either did not describe the look on their faces, or the prosecution chose not to ask about it or include it because IT’S COMPLETELY FUCKING IRRELEVANT TO THE ELEMENTS OF THE CRIME OF SEXUAL ASSAULT, ONCE THE WITNESS HAS UNEQUIVOCALLY SAID HE SAW THE VICTIM SUBJECTED TO ANAL RAPE, does **not** permit you to testify to the fact that McQueary saw facial expressions of any particular sort that would somehow counteract the GIGANTIC fact that he was convinced he saw “some sort of intercourse.” If I said I saw someone being stabbed, my failure to mention that they did not look too happy about it has ZERO effect to prove that he was not stabbed. This moron may keep me busy for awhile. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/2565 "2012-02-05T00:34:22Z")
Why would McQueary include the detail that they both turned to look at him but omit details such as Sandusky in a crouched posture or an expression of pain or distress on the face of the boy when both would lend credence to his belief that what he saw _might_ have been anal rape. His other conclusion, which also may have been in error, was that “fondling” was what was going on. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/2566 "2012-02-05T00:35:09Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > McQueary never said that yet you keep trying to fool people into thinking he had. You’re a dolt of the first order. And a loon of the first order. You have zero credibility in this thread to anyone with even a smidgeon of intellectual honesty or character. I try to fool them by citing chapter and verse of the Grand Jury indictment. Diabolical! And so in your quest to commit every logical fallacy in a ninth grade debate class textbook, you turn in due course to reductio ad absurdum. You have “proven too much” when you prove that you are, on your theory, the **single only poster on this entire board** who has any intellectual honesty or character, given that you are the **only** person who has disagreed with me on the fundamental moral corruption of pretending that rape by Sandusky was impossible under the circumstances and that McQueary was unclear on what he saw when he swore he definitely saw “some form of intercourse.” Only you. Must be lonely at the top. You’re too stupid for words, and even nastier than that in your pedo-apologist obsessions. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/2567 "2012-02-05T00:39:10Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Why would McQueary include the detail that they both turned to look at him but omit details such as Sandusky in a crouched posture or an expression of pain or distress on the face of the boy when both would lend credence to his belief that what he saw _might_ have been anal rape. His other conclusion, which also may have been in error, was that “fondling” was what was going on. And 190 posters in my other thread concluded that “fondling” and “sexual contact” are the same thing in that context, and both are consistent with “subjecting to anal rape,” especially if the “hand around the waist” wasn’t just for bracing but for the old reacharound. You’re wrong. This is a major fork in life’s road and you have the opportunity to change your miserable existence by manning up and just walking away from your batshit unsupportable positions. You won’t do it, but down the road, keep in mind that your false pride, ignorance, hysteria, and weird notions about the propriety of naked man-boy contact, were what kept you from the opportunity to salvage a decent life and decent character out of whatever mental wreckage is bogging you down. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/2568 "2012-02-05T00:41:26Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > What makes you think I believe he’s being charged with only one crime? > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > We also have evidence that Sandusky had a history at the time of hugging boys (or at least a boy) in the shower. Just because is a bank robber, it doesn’t mean he’s robbed every bank he ever walked into. I’m of the impression that previous crimes or suspicion of crimes is inadmissible as evidence in the courtroom and that each charge must stand or fall on the facts pertaining to that particular case. I may be wrong about that but I don’t think so. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/2569 "2012-02-05T00:47:26Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > You have “proven too much” when you prove that you are, on your theory, the **single only poster on this entire board** who has any intellectual honesty or character… You’ve taken to bolding your lies now? I’ve never come close to claiming to have proven that I’m the only poster on the board with intellectual honesty and character, and the only way I can see that you would think such a thing is if you believe every other poster on the board respects you and believes what you say. I can assure you that is not the case. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/2570 "2012-02-05T00:57:47Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > :rolleyes: That paragraph you quoted? I do not think it means what you think that it means, dear. Hint: charges and trials are not the same thing. Now, I suppose it’s possible to have a gang trial where all the charges are tried at once, but the specifics of each crime must on their own. In other words, jurors can’t just convict people willy-nilly for all crimes just because a few have been proven. This is why you see jury verdicts where the defendant is convicted of some crimes and acquitted of others. A couple of recent examples would be Casey Anthony, was convicted of lying to the police but found not guilty of murder, and Amanda Knox, who was convicted of slandering the Italian police but found not guilty of murder. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/2571 "2012-02-05T01:02:52Z")
Is there a record for ‘Longest Train Wreck’? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/2572 "2012-02-05T01:03:48Z")
Well, heck, just naked fondling? Is that all? Nothing necessarily sexual about naked fondling. Maybe a common practice in modern day men’s locker rooms. I wouldn’t know, haven’t been in one since they couldn’t make me do it any more. But not necessarily sexual, I remember one occasion of totally naked fondling that didn’t lead to sex, she heard a car door slam out in the drive way and shoved me out the bedroom window. OK, threw. And it was my house! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/2573 "2012-02-05T01:06:59Z")
And this is not a court of law, it is a message board. You ain’t Perry Mason, you ain’t even Jackie Mason. “If the dick won’t fit, you must acquit!” ain’t gonna get it. **Bricker! Bricker**! **SA** ’s trying to steal your chops! ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/2574 "2012-02-05T01:14:58Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > And this is not a court of law, it is a message board. You ain’t Perry Mason, you ain’t even Jackie Mason. “If the dick won’t fit, you must acquit!” ain’t gonna get it. > > **Bricker! Bricker**! **SA** ’s trying to steal your chops! You owe an apology to **Bricker** for comparing him to **Starving Artist**. Good heavens, how stoned are you? ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/2575 "2012-02-05T01:18:52Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > And this is not a court of law, it is a message board. You ain’t Perry Mason, you ain’t even Jackie Mason. “If the dick won’t fit, you must acquit!” ain’t gonna get it. > > **Bricker! Bricker**! **SA** ’s trying to steal your chops! Yer humble narrator feels he’s doing a good enough job repudiating the Boy Lawyer forays for now . . . though were **Bricker** to voluntarily tag in I’ll let go of the baton (oh, you just can’t say **anything** in a thread like this without snickering) for awhile . . . . ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/2576 "2012-02-05T01:20:22Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I can assure you that is not the case. 🙂 It is true that **Huerta88** is not universally respected on the SDMB. Yet, somehow, in this thread, he has clearly and unequivocally kicked the shit out of you. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/2577 "2012-02-05T01:20:31Z")
> [@](#): > > …Good heavens, how stoned are you? About 75 millichongs. Not much. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/2578 "2012-02-05T01:28:23Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Well, heck, just naked fondling? Is that all? Nothing necessarily sexual about naked fondling. Maybe a common practice in modern day men’s locker rooms. I wouldn’t know, haven’t been in one since they couldn’t make me do it any more. But not necessarily sexual, I remember one occasion of totally naked fondling that didn’t lead to sex, she heard a car door slam out in the drive way and shoved me out the bedroom window. OK, threw. > > And it was my house! I guess you missed it the thousand other times I’ve said this, but if someone doesn’t know if what they saw was fondling or intercourse, they don’t know what they saw and are making assumptions. And _“Too loose, Lautrec?”_? Hmm…how long since I’ve seen that one? I’ll have to ask Hef next time I see him. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/2579 "2012-02-05T01:49:00Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > It is true that **Huerta88** is not universally respected on the SDMB. Yet, somehow, in this thread, he has clearly and unequivocally kicked the shit out of you. Depends on the scoring. If you’re counting lies, poor reading comprehension, misrepresentations and blatant dishonesty, I figure the score’s about 878 to, well, 0, favor of **Huerta** , with numerous assists from the likes of you and worse. And trust me, it doesn’t speak well of the few **Huerta** supporters that you are a minor offender amongst them. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/2580 "2012-02-05T01:51:05Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Depends on the scoring. If you’re counting lies, poor reading comprehension, misrepresentations and blatant dishonesty, I figure the score’s about 878 to, well, 0, favor of **Huerta** , with numerous assists from the likes of you and worse. And trust me, it doesn’t speak well of the few **Huerta** supporters that you are a minor offender amongst them. How stoned are _you_? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/2581 "2012-02-05T01:57:51Z")
Btw, has anyone else noticed that when things get drug out of this thread with its relatively small coterie of hysterical lunatics and before the board in general, the outrage level falls pretty quickly to ‘meh’, and support for my attempts to look objectively at the facts garners considerably more support than criticism from those not already going ballistic in this thread? Telling, that is. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167.md?page=128) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167.md?page=130)