# It's time to officially Pit Joe Paterno and the Penn State football program. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 7, 2011, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167 "2011-11-07T14:23:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 146
**Author:** ![Enola\_Gay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ab097/32.png) [@Enola\_Gay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Gay)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/2902 "2012-02-11T05:45:55Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Then perhaps you could be so kind as to illucidate or cite some of **SA’s** “obvious biases”? Yes, YES!! I have every intention of busting your chops and elucidating and citing your obvious biases, lies, and mischaracterizations… But unfortunately, [I don’t have time right now](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14757697&postcount=2781), but if I can find the time later I think I’ll go through some of your posts of just the last few days only and point out line for line the many lies, misrepresentations and miscomprehension’s and obvious biases they are peppered with. Should be fun. But unfortunately I’m [constrained](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14759156&postcount=2835) to having to post with only my iPod touch right now, and cutting, pasting and searching are far too difficult and time consuming to waste in contending with your catalog of deceit and obvious bias. Besides, it should be your responsibility to back up your lies and deceits and obvious bias with proof, yes,no? Or do you prefer the 'guilty ‘til proven innocent’ approach to debate? However, [on second thought](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14759360&postcount=2862) I may drive into town one of these days soon where I can tackle them on a library computer that hopefully is less vulnerable to the viruses and malware that one can pick up on Windows machines here these days, and where I can cut, paste and type faster than in my iPod. Yup, I’m gonna have to give that some thought. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/2903 "2012-02-11T06:20:51Z")
Dear God! He’s replicated! ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/2904 "2012-02-11T07:32:53Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Dear God! He’s replicated! Probably by fissioning, like a bacterium, since I doubt anything would willingly reproduce sexually with him. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/2905 "2012-02-11T08:31:36Z")
We’re doomed. Somebody call the Insect Overlords and try to cut a deal. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/2906 "2012-02-11T09:00:14Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Then perhaps you could be so kind as to illucidate or cite some of **SA’s** “obvious biases”? > [@RaftPeople](#): > > It would probably be fair to say you have a bias in favor of Paterno, wouldn’t you agree? Damn, did I really say "illucidate? I plead too much wine, too quickly drunk. It’s hard to believe - the nature of the thread being what it is - that people haven’t been all over that. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/2907 "2012-02-11T12:30:43Z")
So, **SA** , have you talked to your family yet about what you’ve been doing here? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/2908 "2012-02-11T17:08:44Z")
Think about that. If you are so blessed, and all the time SA spends here he’s not talking to you, would you bitch about it? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/2909 "2012-02-11T17:17:45Z")
Talking would be the \*least \*thing I’d worry about him doing to me. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/2910 "2012-02-11T20:55:07Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > (emphasis added) > > What the hell happened to you? I defended you in the past on more than one occasion when ignorant dumbasses on here accused you of being a Nazi, and now you’re using “woman” as an insult? And a pretty nasty one at that. > > You’ve either let Starving Artist live inside your head too much, or…fuck, something else, I don’t know. Not cool. You did see I rather meekly agreed to tone it down when **Mnem** kindly requested? ---
**Author:** ![AustinJane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/df788c/32.png) [@AustinJane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AustinJane)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/2911 "2012-02-11T21:14:06Z")
> [@](#): > > People like you are responsible for untold numbers of deaths throughout history, and I’m not exaggerating in the slightest when I say that people like you are far greatet threats to society than child molesters could ever be…and that’s pretty damn hideous! I think this defines SA’s viewpoint. He is talking about those that think the direction to take is error on the side of the possible molested, rather the molester…it is a greater threat than a child molester. Kind of wraps up his point of reference. Sorry that is fucking sick. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/2912 "2012-02-11T21:16:22Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > You did see I rather meekly agreed to tone it down when **Mnem** kindly requested? Yes, it was so very kind of you to agree to suppress your natural inclinations in return for support of your idiotic behahavior in this thread. Most lying sexist, homophobic Nazis wouldn’t be so [del]cowardly[/del] kind. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/2913 "2012-02-11T21:20:44Z")
Do you actually think before you post? Because all signs point to NO. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/2914 "2012-02-11T21:25:14Z")
> [@Enola\_Gay](#): > > I’m a woman and was not offended by Huerta’s comments at all. I could be way off, but my take was that he was mocking SA and using SA’s obvious biases to fuck with him. > Kind of like Stephen Colberts bit on that senator whose name escapes me right now (the homophobic conservative with the “wide stance”) or when Howard Stern accused David Duke of wearing a pink sheet with high heels underneath. That was my read on it anyway… That was just the intent **Enola** and I apologize to the extent **Una** was rubbed the wrong way or did not find it effective in the light you described. I did, but then I thought this was funny as Hell. [http://www.theonion.com/articles/why-do-all-these-homosexuals-keep-sucking-my-cock,10861/](http://www.theonion.com/articles/why-do-all-these-homosexuals-keep-sucking-my-cock,10861/) To the generation of Real He Men From The Perfect 1950s, confronting homosexual or other un-mainstream impulses in their minds, impulses that were not in accord with the Official Story on what He Men did, inspired some nimble theoretical and verbal gymnastics indeed. The studios were insisting for years that Rock Hudson and Liberace were veritable lotharios. “Confirmed bachelors” littered the landscape in Hollywood and elsewhere. Bodybuilding, notoriously, had a strong homoerotic dimension. That sort of thing is exactly what **SA** has tapped into here – the jockish ploy of saying, I’m so manly, I can handle a little grabass, a little showering with the other guys (including little guys, no better way to expose them to the jockish culture), a little hide the soap. It’s you guys with your dirty minds and hysterical suspicions who’re ruining it all for us He Man 1950s jocks! It’s no accident that bathhouses, which used to be, well, places to bathe before everyone had extensive indoor plumbing, became plausible (for awhile) cover-ups for homosexual men to mingle, and not mostly for bathing. But homosexual, them – nosiree, we’re just here to get **really really clean.** Hypocrisy is the tribute that vice pays to virtue. **SA** ’s professed 1950s-were-perfect-from-a-conservative-perspective is wildly at odds with his extreme desire for an anything-goes culture of male-on-male (including minor male) naked contact being no big deal. His “wide stance” (it was Larry Craig) predictably drives him to act as though he is “very much a man” (Magic Johnson, on denying that he contracted HIV on the Downlow, which he may well have) while still defending aberrant creepy stuff that no normal man (and I don’t think it’s a stretch too far to say that there is such a thing as a normal man, who normatively isn’t interested in or okay with naked shower wrestling with boys) would think remotely defensible. When the Tory MPs were mocked for their cottaging (don’t ask) and rent boy behavior, the crime was hypocrisy, not their (admittedly out-there and inconsistent with their butch stances on social and other issues, a la Craig) specific normal-men-don’t-do-this pecadillos (which were just the proof of their hypocrisy and twisted motives). ---
**Author:** ![AustinJane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/df788c/32.png) [@AustinJane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AustinJane)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/2915 "2012-02-11T21:25:46Z")
> [@AustinJane](#): > > I think this defines SA’s viewpoint. He is talking about those that think the direction to take is error on the side of the possible molested, rather the molester…it is a greater threat than a child molester. Kind of wraps up his point of reference. Sorry that is fucking sick. And of course that is rather _than_ the molester, but my brain thought the word was there so it saw it every time I reread;) ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/2916 "2012-02-11T21:27:09Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Yes, it was so very kind of you to agree to suppress your natural inclinations in return for support of your idiotic behahavior in this thread. Most lying sexist, homophobic Nazis wouldn’t be so [del]cowardly[/del] kind. Show me a post in which I am, say, a Nazi. Waiting, but them I am waiting for you to: (a) answer the damn Pennlive question without a little ballerina dance; (b) put forth your devastating “refutation,” or even “pointing out” of my alleged lies; (c) repudiate even one of the lies I demonstrated on your part. Bitch. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/2917 "2012-02-11T21:45:58Z")
> [@AustinJane](#): > > I think this defines SA’s viewpoint. He is talking about those that think the direction to take is error on the side of the possible molested, rather the molester…it is a greater threat than a child molester. Kind of wraps up his point of reference. Sorry that is fucking sick. Nope, wrong as usual. I was talking about all the people who have been lynched, burned at the stake, executed, whatever, as the result of hysterical assumptions of guilt without due process. With regard to child molestation, I believe the same standards of proof should apply as with all other crimes, i.e., innocent until proven guilty rather than the other way around. In other words, I believe that before a man should be caged up for years and his family deprived of its husband, father and breadwinner, something along the lines of proof beyond a reasonable doubt should be established. Children often don’t understand the meaning of questions they’re asked; the meaning or significance of terms they’re asked to use; they are impressionable and easily manipulated by devious, vindictive parents out to punish a current or former partner; and kids will sometimes lie if they think they have something to gain by it, such as escape from a disliked parent or stepfather or resentfully disciplined environment. Years ago certain feminists were insisting that all allegations of rape should be considered proof because rape was such a heinous crime against women that no woman would ever lie about it. Police detectives laughed. You are little better than they, if at all. People should never be convicted, especially of serious crimes, on the unsubstantiated word of one person or because numbskulls like you think that in certain cases it’s better to err on the side of guilt. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/2918 "2012-02-11T21:51:47Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > Do you actually think before you post? Because all signs point to NO. The question is does he actually think, period. ---
**Author:** ![AustinJane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/df788c/32.png) [@AustinJane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AustinJane)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/2919 "2012-02-11T21:57:10Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Nope, wrong as usual. I was talking about all the people who have been lynched, burned at the stake, executed, whatever, as the result of hysterical assumptions of guilt without due process. > > With regard to child molestation, I believe the same standards of proof should apply as with all other crimes, i.e., innocent until proven guilty rather than the other way around. In other words, I believe that before a man should be caged up for years and his family deprived of its husband, father and breadwinner, something along the lines of proof beyond a reasonable doubt should be established. > > Children often don’t understand the meaning of questions they’re asked; the meaning or significance of terms they’re asked to use; they are impressionable and easily manipulated by devious, vindictive parents out to punish a current or former partner; and kids will sometimes lie if they think they have something to gain by it, such as escape from a disliked parent or stepfather or resentfully disciplined environment. > > Years ago certain feminists were insisting that all allegations of rape should be considered proof because rape was such a heinous crime against women that no woman would ever lie about it. Police detectives laughed. You are little better than they, if at all. People should never be convicted, especially of serious crimes, on the unsubstantiated word of one person or because numbskulls like you think that in certain cases it’s better to err on the side of guilt. Come on, it always comes back to the same concept, the possibility of an innocent being unjustly accused is more dangerous to society than the crime the person has been accused of. No matter the crime. And crimes of a “sexual nature” seem to be the type that put you over the edge. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/2920 "2012-02-11T21:57:20Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > What the hell happened to you? I defended you in the past on more than one occasion when ignorant dumbasses on here accused you of being a Nazi, and now you’re using “woman” as an insult? And a pretty nasty one at that. … Hey, he hasn’t called him a [lying whore](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=366822) . . . yet! CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2012, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/2921 "2012-02-11T22:25:45Z")
> [@AustinJane](#): > > Come on, it always comes back to the same concept, the possibility of an innocent being unjustly accused is more dangerous to society than the crime the person has been accused of. No matter the crime. Certainly I think an attitude of let’s-lock-'em-up-just-because is more harmful both to society and to individual civil rights than is whatever crime has ostensibly put them there. > [@AustinJane](#): > > And crimes of a “sexual nature” seem to be the type that put you over the edge. No, unthinking idiocy is what puts me over the edge, and crimes of a sexual nature seem to bring the idiots out of the woodwork more than most other issues. For example, here we have you and **Guin** openly advocating a policy of ‘we don’t know for sure that this guy’s guilty but let’s lock him up just in case’, with other people in the thread jumping to wild, unsupported conclusions about what Joe Paterno thought, knew and did, and feverishly insisting that a rape occurred when a common-sense evaluation of the facts tends to suggest otherwise, and then calling me a pedophile because I chose to look at the facts. All of that is idiocy, and that idiocy is what has put me ‘over the edge’. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167.md?page=145) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167.md?page=147)