# It's time to officially Pit Joe Paterno and the Penn State football program. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 7, 2011, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167 "2011-11-07T14:23:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 151
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3002 "2012-02-14T03:54:57Z")
> [@Enola\_Gay](#): > > …\*\*I realize trying to rationalize with SA is futile… You can’t _reason_ with him, no. But when comes to rationalization, he has no peer. He can lay down a supposition, buttress it with conjecture and innuendos, and build a towering cathedral of booshwah. He is the Nijinsky of the false equivalence, a master of the non sequitur, he leaps from groundless supposition to nonsensical conclusion with the grace of a wounded gazelle. If we drive him away, he’ll just go do this to someone else! Could you live with that on your conscience? Well, I could, but I’m assuming you are a better person than I am. ---
**Author:** ![Enola\_Gay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ab097/32.png) [@Enola\_Gay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Gay)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3003 "2012-02-14T03:57:11Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > You can’t _reason_ with him, no. But when comes to rationalization… Fruedian slip 😉 ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3004 "2012-02-14T03:58:09Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I simply don’t agree. All Paterno was likely to have known of at the time is that Sandusky apparently hugged a kid in the shower once and for all he knew that’s all there was to it and McQueary had misread what he saw. I’m not sure I see that’s all Paterno “likely” would have known, can you elaborate? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3005 "2012-02-14T04:14:12Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > You just did - so ask yourself why. I find it beyond belief myself. How long will you go on? Two things: 1. I’d abandoned this thread probably a couple thousand posts ago, figuring there was really no more to say. I’ve been kinda stunned that it stays up here, so I thought, WTF, one post to ask why. 2. In that vein, I wasn’t talking to SA - after all, I would hardly expect a worthwhile response from him. I was talking to those here who are still feeding him. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3006 "2012-02-14T04:14:45Z")
> [@Enola\_Gay](#): > > Nope, wrong again. You are indeed the idiot. 🙂 > > FWIW, I just read through the assault and homicide statutes, and they mention nothing whatsoever about the offense of taking a scalpel and making an incision from your sternum to your pubis. So clearly that is NOT illegal or they would have mentioned it in the statutes. > > There was something in there about assault with a deadly weapon, but clearly my taking a knife and incising you from sternum to pubis does not qualify because surgeons do this all the time. > > And if I should happen to incise you from sternum to pubis and others are aware of it, they are under no obligation to contact the police since it’s obvious to anyone who is NOT an idiot that nothing illegal has occurred. If you don’t believe me, quote the statute that says it’s illegal. > > \*\*I realize trying to rationalize with SA is futile, but I like watching the monkey dance 😉 Predictably and in keeping with your status as an idiot, you’re missing the point…a couple of them as a matter of fact. Number one, making such incisions isn’t always illegal; and number two, Sandusky was not unquestionably raping tbe boy. An analogy to your incision scenario would be someone merely thinking he had seen such an incision being made on a living person but without actually seeing the scalpel making the cut or even coming into contact with the skin and with no sign of pain or distress from the victim. You guys need to give this up. You are arguing from a position of weakness and accordingly you find yourselves forced time after time to try to stretch the law or come up with an unavoidably flawed analogy to support you case. I’ve got truth and the facts on my side and you are arguing from emotion. There are times when emotion is a good thing, but arguing points of law isn’t one of them. You cannot win this argument. You haven’t been able to win it after 60 pages of false claims, flawed analogies and unthinking appeals to emotion, and 60 pages more won’t win it for you either. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3007 "2012-02-14T04:17:53Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Now, typically, you are attempting to move the goalposts by stretching your vaguely worded statute to proclaim that McQueary was the real victim. Have I got that right? (And if so, it should probably be noted that McQueary has testified that he did not see Sandusky’s genitals while Sandusky and the boy were in contact.) And yet a grand jury somehow saw fit to indict Sandusky on a charge indicating that they felt something prosecutable occurred in that shower. How could they make such a grotesque error? ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3008 "2012-02-14T04:22:37Z")
[no comment, just wanted to see what it feels like to have “Post Three-Thousand And Change” in the upper right corner of my post] _[whoa, heady…]_ ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3009 "2012-02-14T04:26:27Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > And yet a grand jury somehow saw fit to indict Sandusky on a charge indicating that they felt something prosecutable occurred in that shower. How could they make such a grotesque error? He’s indicted on a slew of charges involving no fewer than ten boys. I would bet just about any amount that he would never have been indicted if the McQueary incident were the only one being considered. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3010 "2012-02-14T04:32:10Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > You guys need to give this up. You are arguing from a position of weakness and accordingly you find yourselves forced time after time to try to stretch the law or come up with an unavoidably flawed analogy to support you case. I’ve got truth and the facts on my side and you are arguing from emotion. There are times when emotion is a good thing, but arguing points of law isn’t one of them. You cannot win this argument. You haven’t been able to win it after 60 pages of false claims, flawed analogies and unthinking appeals to emotion, and 60 pages more won’t win it for you either. You attempt to claim that pure conjecture based on your interpretation of a grand jury summary somehow constitutes fact, and further claim that you have ‘won’ an argument that nearly every single person who has has bothered to post to this thread has rejected as either an offensive level of stupidity or blatant trolling? Excuse me while I snicker. _Snicker_ So, last night at dinner, did you describe to your guests exactly what you’ve been doing here? ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3011 "2012-02-14T04:33:35Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > He’s indicted on a slew of charges involving no fewer than ten boys. I would bet just about any amount that he would never have been indicted if the McQueary incident were the only one being considered. I see, 51 counts wasn’t enough; just had to have one more to really make a plausible case, is that it? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3012 "2012-02-14T04:34:53Z")
Nm, more later. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3013 "2012-02-14T05:05:01Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > You attempt to claim that pure conjecture based on your interpretation of a grand jury summary somehow constitutes fact… Nope, this is more **Huerta** like bullshit. The comment was clearly speculation, as anyone with a functioning brain would surmise from the context and the way the post was worded. > [@El\_Kabong](#): > > So, last night at dinner, did you describe to your guests exactly what you’ve been doing here? Nope, I’m sure everyone would have been roundly [del]unconcerned[/del] bored with tales of my adventures on some message board they never heard of. Certainly people’s eyes have glazed over any other time I’ve mentioned what someone here said, usually at the mere mention of the words “message board”. In short, people don’t give a shit what a bunch of people on the internet whom they’ve never heard of have to say about anything. You’ve probably experienced it yourself. As to your larger implication, no, I try not to get involved in debates regarding politics, religion or the finer points of child rape with my guests. In return they blessedly abstain from voicing the kind of idiocy I run into here…if they even think it to begin with, which I doubt. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3014 "2012-02-14T05:16:19Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > An analogy to your incision scenario… An analogy to an analogy? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3015 "2012-02-14T05:20:41Z")
> [@](#): > > …In return they blessedly abstain from voicing the kind of idiocy I run into here…if they even think it to begin with, which I doubt. Do they listen to you? Do they charge extra for that? ---
**Author:** ![Enola\_Gay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ab097/32.png) [@Enola\_Gay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Gay)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3016 "2012-02-14T05:20:48Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Predictably and in keeping with your status as an idiot, you’re missing the point…a couple of them as a matter of fact. Number one, making such incisions isn’t always illegal; and number two, Sandusky was not unquestionably raping tbe boy. An analogy to your incision scenario would be someone merely thinking he had seen such an incision being made on a living person but without actually seeing the scalpel making the cut or even coming into contact with the skin and with no sign of pain or distress from the victim. > > You guys need to give this up. You are arguing from a position of weakness and accordingly you find yourselves forced time after time to try to stretch the law or come up with an unavoidably flawed analogy to support you case. I’ve got truth and the facts on my side and you are arguing from emotion. There are times when emotion is a good thing, but arguing points of law isn’t one of them. You cannot win this argument. You haven’t been able to win it after 60 pages of false claims, flawed analogies and unthinking appeals to emotion, and 60 pages more won’t win it for you either. That’s it!1 Dance, Monkey, DANCE!! More MORE MORE!!! You amuse me 😃 ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3017 "2012-02-14T05:26:04Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > I’m not sure I see that’s all Paterno “likely” would have known, can you elaborate? I’m hoping you will respond to this **SA** , I’m curious why Paterno likely wouldn’t have known more than what you suggest. ---
**Author:** ![Enola\_Gay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ab097/32.png) [@Enola\_Gay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Gay)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3018 "2012-02-14T05:27:02Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Nm, more later. Let me guess: A. You have to go Christmas shopping?? B. Your computer has a virus and it’s too hard to type on your iPad?? C. You’re going to go down to the library to use their non-infected computers, but you’re snowed in?? D. You have some friends coming over for your famous “chicken and dumplings”?? (come on, like any of really believe you have friends :D) E. You have to go down to the 711 to grab some young boy’s chocolate covered cherries?? This stuff is gold, Jerry, GOLD!!! ---
**Author:** ![quixotic78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/3ab097/32.png) [@quixotic78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quixotic78)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3019 "2012-02-14T05:29:47Z")
I like how SA’s rendition of Paterno is simultaneously a doddering old fool who doesn’t know what “fondling” means or that a man can have sex with a boy (despite his studies of Greek literature at an Ivy League school)… and yet, he has the legal acumen to instantly\* discern that a statute concerning exposing of genitals to youths wouldn’t apply to Sandusky. Amazing, that. [sub]\* Well, maybe it wasn’t instantly – maybe that’s why he waited a day to pass McQueary’s message along, because he was deeply immersed in case law.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Enola\_Gay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ab097/32.png) [@Enola\_Gay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Gay)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3020 "2012-02-14T05:31:59Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > And yet a grand jury somehow saw fit to indict Sandusky on a charge indicating that they felt something prosecutable occurred in that shower. How could they make such a grotesque error? Obviously that grand jury of nattering nabobs was nothing more than a lynch mob who watches too much Nancy Grace and cares nothing about due process. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3021 "2012-02-14T05:40:58Z")
> [@Enola\_Gay](#): > > That’s it!1 Dance, Monkey, DANCE!! More MORE MORE!!! You amuse me 😃 I’m guessing you really like Quentin Tarantino movies. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167.md?page=150) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167.md?page=152)