# It's time to officially Pit Joe Paterno and the Penn State football program. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 7, 2011, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167 "2011-11-07T14:23:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 164
**Author:** ![psychobunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@psychobunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychobunny)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3262 "2012-02-18T04:02:40Z")
Here’s another SA lie. He states that posters here > [@](#): > > continue to insist that McQueary’s shocked and hurried assessment of what he saw is conclusive proof of rape I’ve read this entire thread and only SA is so hung up on whether penetration occurred or didn’t. Are there variations in the severity of child abuse? Of course. Does that mean Paterno gets a pass just because he only was told of a less “severe” type of child abuse and did not believe that a rape had actually occurred? No. He should have followed up on any child abuse! ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3263 "2012-02-18T04:06:46Z")
> [@Stelios](#): > > Aaaand I’m done. Keep fucking that [del]child[/del]… So much for strict facts and logic, eh, chum(p)? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3264 "2012-02-18T04:13:30Z")
> [@psychobunny](#): > > Here’s another SA lie. He states that posters here > > I’ve read this entire thread and only SA is so hung up on whether penetration occurred or didn’t. Are there variations in the severity of child abuse? Of course. Does that mean Paterno gets a pass just because he only was told of a less “severe” type of child abuse and did not believe that a rape had actually occurred? No. He should have followed up on any child abuse! He did. He reported it in exactly the way he was supposed to. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3265 "2012-02-18T04:23:02Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Not much rhetorical weight is needed in order to rebut baseless speculation, which was all you offered in support of your bizarre conclusion that the anal rape situation was somehow “highly unlikely”. His assertion is that he’s proven it was _impossible_, not merely “highly unlikely”. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3266 "2012-02-18T04:29:05Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > You seem to have this weird conviction that for a 6’3" man to get his pelvis “two feet off the ground” is some kind of preternaturally athletic feat. > > But as pointed out previously, a 6’3" man’s pelvis is only about three feet off the ground when he’s standing fully upright with his feet together. > > If he bends his knees slightly, he lowers his pelvis six inches. If he then steps his feet three feet apart, a little number-crunching with the Pythagorean theorem shows that he lowers his pelvis another six inches. Voila, there he is with his pelvis two feet off the ground, perfectly stable and quite capable of “thrusting motions”. > > I really don’t see why you’re bizarrely asking us to believe that this not-very-challenging stance would have been so difficult for an active man under 60. > > Sure, I can think of **more** comfortable positions for sexual intercourse. But we have to remember that child molesters are generally pretty opportunistic. They usually don’t have the luxury of setting up the perfect ambience or most comfortable environment for their preferred sexual activities: rather, they abuse their victims when they think they can do so successfully and not get caught at it. > > As I said before, I’m certainly not arguing that what Sandusky was doing with that boy in the shower **must** have been full-on anal rape. I’m just explaining why your incomprehensible insistence that it almost certainly **couldn’t** have been—that anal rape in that situation was “unlikely bordering on impossible”—is irrational and absurd. Yes, I suppose that through a combination of squatting and very wide stance a person Sandusky’s size might have been able to succeed that way, but at the very least such a posture would be dangerous on a slippery wet floor, as feet slipping out from under one in such a position could do a lot of damage to upper thigh tendons and do forth. Still, don’t you think that seeing Sandusky in that position would be something McQueary would relate in an attempt to confirm to Curley and Schultz that anal rape was definitely going on, or to the Grand Jury to bolster his interpretation of what he saw? Yet he never once alluded to Sandusky squatting or the boy evincing distress. I can’t think of any reason that fact would be meaningless except to the willfully obtuse. > [@Kimstu](#): > > Well, at least until about 4:20 PM. Winning! ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3267 "2012-02-18T04:32:52Z")
> [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > His assertion is that he’s proven it was _impossible_, not merely “highly unlikely”. This is correct. I do believe that in the heat of battle I have used the word ‘impossible’ a few times, and I hereby retract that and say instead ‘highly unlikely,’ which I believe I’ve used much more often. ---
**Author:** ![quixotic78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/3ab097/32.png) [@quixotic78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quixotic78)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3268 "2012-02-18T04:35:34Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > This is correct. I do believe that in the heat of battle I have used the word ‘impossible’ a few times, and I hereby retract that and say instead ‘highly unlikely,’ which I believe I’ve used much more often. So you finally admit you’re a liar. I guess we can finally close this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3269 "2012-02-18T04:52:58Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Yes, I suppose that through a combination of squatting and **very wide stance** … 3 feet is _just over shoulder width_, you fucking moron. It’s only about a foot wider than most people _usually_ stand. You’ll even bend basic mathematics to the breaking point to maintain your illusions, won’t you. > [@](#): > > Winning! Losing! ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3270 "2012-02-18T05:25:55Z")
Now let’s take a look at what McQueary actually told the Grand Jury about what he saw: > [@](#): > > “I believe Jerry was sexually molesting (the boy) and having some type of intercourse with him,” McQueary testified Friday, according to the Daily Collegian Twitter feed. McQueary was referring to when he saw Sandusky and a boy McQueary estimated to be 10 or 12 in a shower of the university’s Lasch Football Building. McQueary testified Friday that he saw the boy’s hands against the wall of the shower and that Sandusky was directly behind the boy. > > “Based on the positioning, I didn’t see insertion nor was there screaming or yelling … but that’s truly what I believe. Jerry was behind him in a very close position with hands wrapped around his midsection.” > > McQueary said he saw Sandusky and the boy in a mirror, then looked at them again, while standing two to three yards from the shower. The second time McQueary looked, Sandusky and the boy had separated, but McQueary testified they both made eye contact with him. “I know they saw me. Both of them looked directly in my eye,” said McQueary. “Neither said a thing.” So, McQueary describes seeing the boy’s hands on the wall, he places Sandusky behind the boy wirh his hands around the boy’s midsection, he mentions he saw them in a mirror, he mentions how many times he looked at them, he says there was no screaming or yelling, and he describes how they both turned to look at him. And yet somehow we’re expected to believe he would somehow, in this description where he was trying to get across credibility in what he thought he saw, omit the damning detail of Sandusky being in a squatting or wide stance posture. Anyone taking that line of defense is simply being willfully obtuse. Further, it seems we do indeed have convincing evidence that the boy was showing no signs of distress. Why would McQueary testify there was no screaming or yelling but then omit mention of physical or mental distress in the boy’s expression? I submit that what was going on was that wrestling or some other form of squicky behavior is what was going on, that Sandusky and the boy both had benign expressions on their faces, and that McQueary misinterpreted what he saw as “some form of intercourse,” as even he has stated that he never used the term “anal rape” or “anal intercourse” in describing the event to anyone. ---
**Author:** ![psychobunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@psychobunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychobunny)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3271 "2012-02-18T06:33:22Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > He did. He reported it in exactly the way he was supposed to. No-that does not constitute “following up”. He reported it as required but failed in his moral obligation to follow up on suspected child abuse. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3272 "2012-02-18T07:02:48Z")
Jesus Christ, you’re disturbing. > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > One ding-a-ling even went so far as to proclaim that touching a child on the leg was just as bad as raping them. Who the fuck said that? Where? ---
**Author:** ![Quint](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/76d3ee/32.png) [@Quint](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quint)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3273 "2012-02-18T07:54:12Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Winning! For every winning… > [@martu](#): > > Thread synopsis: > > **Rational people** If you hear that a man was seen naked with a young boy in your gym shower room you damn well make sure that kid is safe. That’s it, that is your only responsibility, if you take the step of telling your superiors and letting them handle it you, again, damn well make sure the kid is in no danger. > > **SA** No you only have to do what is legally required, for all you know it could be innocent. > > **Rational people** Well maybe it was innocent, though for the life of us we can’t think of anything innocent that could have been happening, but OK maybe. However did you miss our initial point, namely that **you damn well make sure that kid is safe**. That is your moral responsibility. > > **SA** It might not have been rape, the kid didn’t look in distress, the lights weren’t on, it’s physically impossible, some kids need to be told how to use a shower, > > **Rational people** Did you miss our initial point, namely that **you damn well make sure that kid is safe**. That is your moral responsibility in this scenario. > > **SA** Oh you’re all just anti-Paterno, liberal douches, Nancy Graces > > **Rational people** Did you miss our initial point, namely that **you damn well make sure that kid is safe**. That is your moral responsibility in this scenario whether you are Paterno or Obama or Mitt Romney. > > **SA** Sorry have to go back in a bit, lunch, dinner, the dog has been sick, visitors from Alpha Centauri just landed in my garden, a gladiator movie is on > > **Rational people** Ok not really required, when you come back please understand we aren’t anti-Paterno we are just pointing out he let himself down here, he could and should have done more > > **SA** No you are lying about me > > **Rational people** It’s not about you. > > **SA** Winning! > > **Rational people** WTF? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3274 "2012-02-18T08:01:05Z")
Gosh, I’m glad he posted that excerpt from the testimony. I mean, that settles it, clearly a description of a mature naked man instructing a naked young boy in proper shower techniques and the correct application of soap! It’s so obvious! I wish I had known sooner, that the correct method involved placing ones hands against the wall while a naked old man wrapped his arms around you from behind! Been doing it all wrong for years! Rest assured, if I had witnessed such wholesome and hygienic instruction offered to my own son, I would have expressed my appreciation in immediate and unmistakable terms. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3275 "2012-02-18T11:59:42Z")
Anybody else get the feeling that **Starving Artist** is about to conduct an extensive search for a duplicate key to the wardroom icebox? [http://youtu.be/ZlV3oQ3pLA0](http://youtu.be/ZlV3oQ3pLA0) ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3276 "2012-02-18T14:45:08Z")
_The Patriot-News_, June 6, 2012: "The sentencing hearing in Centre County Court for convicted serial child molester Jerry Sandusky was briefly disrupted this afternoon when an unidentified man, brandishing what appeared to be a cardboard tube from a roll of paper towels, attempted to voice his displeasure over the course of the proceedings. The man, of approximately Sandusky’s age and build, shouted to a shocked courtroom audience that he had “incontrovertible evidence” that Sandusky could not possibly have raped Victim Number Two of the ten young males he was charged with having raped or otherwise molested multiple times over a period of several years. As he was being hustled out of the courtroom by bailiffs, the clearly agitated man could be heard shouting “Impossible, impossible! Showering lessons! Hide the soap! Nattering nabobs!” and several times invoked the name of disgraced, deceased Penn State football coach Joe Paterno. Pandemonium erupted briefly as a group of onlookers, believed to be relatives of some of the victims, booed and threw wadded papers at the unidentified man. Judge John M. Cleland managed to regain order within a few minutes and the proceedings continued. The sentencing hearing followed the dramatic developments of two weeks ago, when, just prior to his May 14 trial date, Sandusky’s legal team announced that rather than face several weeks of damaging testimony before a jury, they had advised their client to plead guilty on the 52 counts of child molestation with which he was charged. Judge Cleland is expected to hand down sentence within the next few days." ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3277 "2012-02-18T15:05:20Z")
^ Winning! ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3278 "2012-02-18T15:12:22Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Anybody else get the feeling that **Starving Artist** is about to conduct an extensive search for a duplicate key to the wardroom icebox? I thought he steamed over his own tow line long, long ago. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3279 "2012-02-18T15:49:41Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > In one of your earlier posts you alluded to being disliked on the board for being a Nazi, and IIRC you made a post alluding to Rommel in some way, though I admit that I didn’t read it Fucking retard – No, I did not. If I did, post that link. It doesn’t exist, and you are a fucking liar. I made a “post alluding to Rommel in some way.” Were you under the historically-retarded impression that Rommel was a Nazi? Rommel was (as any educated person, which does not include you) of course never a member of the Nazi party, was a staunch opponent of Nazi ideology, and **killed himself** after his involvement/engagement with the cabal who attempted to assassinate Hitler was revealed, to save his family. > [@](#): > > [Wiki]As one of the few generals who consistently fought the Western Allies (he was never assigned to the Eastern Front), Rommel is regarded as having been a humane and professional officer. His Afrikakorps was never accused of war crimes. Soldiers captured during his Africa campaign were reported to have been treated humanely. Furthermore, he ignored orders to kill captured commandos, Jewish soldiers and civilians in all theaters of his command.[4] > > Late in the war, Rommel was linked to the conspiracy to kill Adolf Hitler. Because Rommel was widely renowned, Hitler chose to eliminate him quietly; in trade for assurances his family would be spared, Rommel agreed to commit suicide. Rommel was 100 more times honorable and 100 more times the man than you, little girl. He **killed himself** after his association with a disgusting and indefensible position and grouping (the Nazi-led German regime) became evident. Others who are defending equally disgusting and indefensible conduct may take notice. Nobody else had a problem understanding my point that sometimes it is the honorable way out, to just end an existence that has become inextricably linked with that which is disgusting, immoral, soiling to one’s character and family (Nazism, pedophilia enabling, etc.). Hint hint hint. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3280 "2012-02-18T15:51:01Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > I thought he steamed over his own tow line long, long ago. Well, at least he’s been tossing out yellow dye markers left and right, so it’s all good. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3281 "2012-02-18T16:05:59Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Certainly it does. The law provides considerably more serious consequences for rape than it does for inappropriate touching. The effect on the victim is considerably different as well. > > I’ve explained numerous times about McQueary’s ambiguity and why Paterno likely acted as he did (which was properly, btw) and I’m not going to go through it again now. Fucking retard – There was absolutely no ambiguity in McQueary’s sworn testimony nor what Paterno made of it. McQueary testified to “intercourse” and to nothing else. And – shocker!!! – you are an ignorant liar on the law as well. Under Pennsylvania law, **both** “rape” and “invountary deviate sexual intercourse” are subject to a penal (oh, GD, I got you all worked up with something that sounded like penile) sentence of “up to 40 years.” The same exact sentence. The same exact perceived “effect on the victim.” See Pennsylvania Statutes Title 18 Sections 3121 and 3123. Not that a retarded moron like you has ever read a statute. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167.md?page=163) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167.md?page=165)