# It's time to officially Pit Joe Paterno and the Penn State football program. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 7, 2011, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167 "2011-11-07T14:23:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 170
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3382 "2012-02-20T05:49:19Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > What makes you think that lurkers support your stance in this thread? > > Seriously. How many PMs have you received, how many emails have you recieved supporting you from lurkers who are unwilling to post here? How many have you received from lurkers who say they’re depending on you? I have no idea how many support me. The important thing is that they hear the truth. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3383 "2012-02-20T05:50:35Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Of course it was! That’s why I specifically addressed him in the opening sentence. :rolleyes: You did not address him in the opening sentence. You addressed him as “ **Finn** ”, in the first sentence of your second paragraph of that post. And we’re supposed to believe you’re not a liar? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3384 "2012-02-20T06:05:16Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I have no idea how many support me. The important thing is that they hear the truth. You really believe that the lurkers in this thread are hearing the truth from you? What in the world gives you that idea? ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3385 "2012-02-20T06:14:16Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > A child of four You are referring again to your “three foot tall boy” from your Penlive excursion? You fucking retard. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3386 "2012-02-20T06:18:36Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > BTW, I believe **Starving Artist** ’s constant speculations would actually get him kicked off a jury – you’re onl y supposed to look at the facts in front of you, not come up with a bunch of alternate scenarios on your own. Am I right? Yes, you are right. Jurors are not allowed to fabricate evidence, nor yet to privilege it above sworn eyewitness testimony. He’s a little bitch making shit up. Nothing more. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3387 "2012-02-20T06:24:51Z")
[Winning!](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pipTwjwrQYQ) ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3388 "2012-02-20T06:25:29Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I have no idea how many support me. The important thing is that they hear the truth. Little Bitch – Refute my demonstration that your retarded ass never proved that I had made “pro Nazi posts” in this thread, or that I had demonstrated that your retarded post about “McQueary entered the locker room when the lights were off, thus absolving Sandusky” was absolutely a goddamn lie. Go ahead, do it. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3389 "2012-02-20T06:27:27Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > I think a major problem in taking your argument seriously is when you weigh it against all we know about Sandusky. He absolutely was sexually assaulting children. To somehow say that this one incident in the shower was innocent is highly unlikely given all the other facts we know. Whether or not he was actually engaged in rape is irrelevant. Given all we know, it is extremely likely he was engaged in some form of sexual assault. There’s no reason to consider the .0001% chance that it really was an innocent encounter. There are several aspects to this issue. For one, people here were getting all het up because because Sandusky was raping boys in the shower and Paterno allegedly knew and didn’t care. However at the time of the alleged incident Sandusky had only been accused of hugging a boy in the shower and that wad three years previous. So in fact Paterno had no reason to think child anal rape was what McQueary saw. Then we have the fact that passions get more inflamed over the idea that a young boy is being subjected to the often painful, disgusting and deeply traumatizing act of anal rape, and those inflamed passions can give rise to a lynch mob, witch hunt mentality that is clearly wrong for a number of reasons. People are entitled to due process and that mentality clearly couldn’t care less about due process, as we’ve seen time and again in this thread. People should not automatically be deemed guilty of the most heinous crime possible just because it does the best job of feeding lynch mob vigilante attitudes and makes them easier to self-justify. Then there’s the truth. Not only is truth valuable on its own but this board is supposed to be devoted to fighting ignorance, and jumping to conclusions and latching onto crimes when facts and reasonable doubt leave room for alternative possibilities as to the degree of crime committed or whether a crime was committed at all is not the way people supposedly dedicated to fighting ignorance should behave. And finally there’s justice. People, no matter how vile or reprehensible their other crimes might be, still should be convicted only upon the evidence pertaining to the crime they’re accused of. Otherwise, we might as well find one rapist and assume he’s committed every other unsolved rape too. Everyone deserves due process and to be tried on the crimes they’re accused of based on the facts that support that accusation. Justice is not served and it’s a danger to us all when people begin jumping to conclusions about someone’s guilt based on assumptions, whether because those assumptions are based on superficial appearances or because of other, similar crimes. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3390 "2012-02-20T06:31:10Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > You did not address him in the opening sentence. > > You addressed him as “ **Finn** ”, in the first sentence of your second paragraph of that post. And we’re supposed to believe you’re not a liar? It was at the end of the opening sentence of the paragraph you quoted. Works for me. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3391 "2012-02-20T06:33:51Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > There are several aspects to this issue. For one, people here were getting all het up because because Sandusky was raping boys in the shower and Paterno allegedly knew and didn’t care. However at the time of the alleged incident Sandusky had only been accused of hugging a boy in the shower and that wad three years previous. So in fact Paterno had no reason to think child anal rape was what McQueary saw. > > Then we have the fact that passions get more inflamed over the idea that a young boy is being subjected to the often painful, disgusting and deeply traumatizing act of anal rape, and those inflamed passions can give rise to a lynch mob, witch hunt mentality that is clearly wrong for a number of reasons. People are entitled to due process and that mentality clearly couldn’t care less about due process, as we’ve seen time and again in this thread. People should not automatically be deemed guilty of the most heinous crime possible just because it does the best job of feeding lynch mob vigilante attitudes and makes them easier to self-justify. > > Then there’s the truth. Not only is truth valuable on its own but this board is supposed to be devoted to fighting ignorance, and jumping to conclusions and latching onto crimes when facts and reasonable doubt leave room for alternative possibilities as to the degree of crime committed or whether a crime was committed at all is not the way people supposedly dedicated to fighting ignorance should behave. > > And finally there’s justice. People, no matter how vile or reprehensible their other crimes might be, still should be convicted only upon the evidence pertaining to the crime they’re accused of. Otherwise, we might as well find one rapist and assume he’s committed every other unsolved rape too. Everyone deserves due process and to be tried on the crimes they’re accused of based on the facts that support that accusation. Justice is not served and it’s a danger to us all when people begin jumping to conclusions about someone’s guilt based on assumptions, whether because those assumptions are based on superficial appearances or because of other, similar crimes. I don’t have a 7-11 near me, but obviously, I need to find one that still has chocolate covered cherries. Or medical marijuana, whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3392 "2012-02-20T06:34:54Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > Little Bitch – > > Refute my demonstration that your retarded ass never proved that I had made “pro Nazi posts” in this thread, or that I had demonstrated that your retarded post about “McQueary entered the locker room when the lights were off, thus absolving Sandusky” was absolutely a goddamn lie. > > Go ahead, do it. No really do it. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3393 "2012-02-20T06:39:20Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > It was at the end of the opening sentence of the paragraph you quoted. Works for me. You missed, of course that I quoted you, with a link to your thread so that all could see I excised your first paragraph. You 1) did not quote the post by **FinnAgain** that you were responding to, 2) referred to him by “Finn”, and 3) insisted that you had responded to him by name in the first sentence of your post that I quoted. In what way is 3) not a lie on your part? ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3394 "2012-02-20T06:51:08Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > You did not address him in the opening sentence. > > You addressed him as “ **Finn** ”, in the first sentence of your second paragraph of that post. And we’re supposed to believe you’re not a liar? _snerk_ And the funny thing is, because of the way you phrased your question, he can’t even remember that his first sentence was addressing the immediately preceding post, which _was_ addressed to **FinnAgain** , even though it was literally only 45 minutes previously. Fucker’s got the attention span of a 2 year old with ADD. And the memory of a goldfish. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3395 "2012-02-20T06:59:33Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > … Paterno should not have tolerated Sandusky’s presense on campus until the investigation was complete, and failing that to have resigned in protest of the administration’s actions or lack thereof. Each of those clearly would be an attempt at interference with the official investigation. A child of four would know I was not referring to calling the police. :rolleyes: Withholding evidence would be interfering. Tampering with witnesses, yes. What legal principle are you pretending to here, that a resignation in protest might somehow be an interference with an investigation? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3396 "2012-02-20T07:00:02Z")
The fact that people continue to support you despite the number of times you keep dragging that stupid, blatant lie about the locker room lights shows how deeply lacking in character and honesty they are. You know perfectly well that that was a mistake which I admitted and retracted as soon as it became clear that I was wrong. Yet here you are, pages and pages latet, still proclaiming that I lied about it, as you’ve done over and over since my retraction. You are a deeply and profoundly hysterical and dishonest nitwit. No one with an ounce of intellectual honesty would take your word for anything. Bit keep it up, dumbass. I have more faith in the thread’s lurkers than you do, and I’m perfectly content to believe they see you for the dishonest, raving crackpot that you really are. And I mean that with all the respect you deserve. 🙂 Now, as to the ‘Nazi’ thing, you keep lying about it too. Remember when I said: > [@](#): > > In one of your earlier posts you alluded to being disliked on the board for being a Nazi, and IIRC you made a post alluding to Rommel in some way, though I admit that I didn’t read it as I haven’t bothered reading many of your posts. Still, if you want to disavow it that’s fine with me. The same still applies. If you mistakenly characterized yourself as a Nazi, and want to disavow Rommel as a Nazi because technically he wasn’t a member of the Nazi party despite the fact he fought for it for years and almost everyone casually refers to German soldiers as Nazis is fine with me. I’m not wedded to it and will retract (again) without the slightest hesitation or care. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3397 "2012-02-20T07:00:43Z")
> [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > … And the memory of a goldfish. Twice as smart, though. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3398 "2012-02-20T07:04:05Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Withholding evidence would be interfering. Tampering with witnesses, yes. What legal principle are you pretending to here, that a resignation in protest might somehow be an interference with an investigation? Yep. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3399 "2012-02-20T07:15:58Z")
> [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > _snerk_ And the funny thing is, because of the way you phrased your question, he can’t even remember that his first sentence was addressing the immediately preceding post, which _was_ addressed to **FinnAgain** , even though it was literally only 45 minutes previously. Fucker’s got the attention span of a 2 year old with ADD. And the memory of a goldfish. Look, buttpipe! I’m trying to contend with a shitload of petty and dishonest crap here, tapping away one letter at a time on an iPod that sucks when it comes to coding, cutting and pasting (especially from one browser page to another) anf trying squeeze in replies to honest, reasonable posters in the meantime. If it makes you feel like you’ve some significant point with your **Frank** -esque pettiness then knock yourself out. Me? Couldn’t care less. This place gets more like a schoolyard every day. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3400 "2012-02-20T07:21:40Z")
> [@](#): > > Yep. I gathered that. I was not asking that you confirm that you said so, that much is clear. You definitely said so, there is no need to clarify the thundering obvious. The question has to do with the _basis_ for such a bald assertion. Mr. Paterno was not conducting the investigation. He is not an officer of the law, nor an officer of the court. He was not even a witness. Unless he was withholding evidence, he has no actual relevance to the investigation whatsoever. No one requires his permission, nor his guidance. He might resign, I might write a sternly disapproving letter to the editor, the total sum of our efforts in affecting the investigation would be zero, zilch, zip, nada damn thing. So if you didn’t pluck this idea from your fertile imagination nor pull it right out of your ass, where did you get this? ---
**Author:** ![FixMyIgnorance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7feea3/32.png) [@FixMyIgnorance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FixMyIgnorance)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3401 "2012-02-20T07:33:22Z")
lol this is still going on Not sure why you guys are falling for such an obvious troll [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167.md?page=169) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167.md?page=171)