# It's time to officially Pit Joe Paterno and the Penn State football program. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 7, 2011, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167 "2011-11-07T14:23:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 172
**Author:** ![quixotic78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/3ab097/32.png) [@quixotic78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quixotic78)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3422 "2012-02-20T15:21:09Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Some excellent points made by **q78** ; I’ll just add that of course it’s hard for **SA** to keep track of everything he said, when, as I believe someone said a while back, he is responsible for mor than ten percent of all the posts to an enormous thread such as this one. Well, to be sure, I don’t envy his position as the sole defender against a legion of opponents. Of course, the obvious (to all except SA, it seems) point would be that maybe there’s a reason _why_ you’re the sole defender… ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3423 "2012-02-20T15:22:02Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Winning! This is a real ringing endorsement of the mods here, I’d say. Now watch, they’ll warn me. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3424 "2012-02-20T15:23:13Z")
> [@martu](#): > > If you hear of an old man naked in a shower with a young kid here’s a tip - you give it some fucking thought. Oh he will, but the thought will be “Quick – where’s my lube and paper towel tube?” ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3425 "2012-02-20T15:44:00Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > If you mistakenly characterized yourself as a Nazi, Show me where I did that. A post number or cite will suffice. Fucking liar. > [@](#): > > and want to disavow Rommel as a Nazi because technically he wasn’t a member of the Nazi party despite the fact he fought for it for years and almost everyone casually refers to German soldiers as Nazis No one with an education refers to German soldiers as Nazi party members or supporters anymore than any educated person would refer to a current member of the U.S. military as necessarily a Democrat because there’s a Democratic President in office. Only an illiterate retard would do this. And to make it clear, my reference to Rommel (who **killed himself over his inability to reconcile his honor with Nazi policies** ) was – as every other member of this thread understood because they are not Fucking Retards like you – solely for the purpose of the salutary lesson that there **are** honorable alternatives to a disgusting existence in which one has become aligned with a disgusting ideology and set of disgusting fellow travelers. Hint hint hint. Not that you have the slightest tinge of honor, but still, hint hint hint. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3426 "2012-02-20T15:59:02Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > Bitch, > > Cite for the fact that there was anything vague or ill-defined about McQueary’s consistent and exclusive sworn testimony that, from six feet away, he saw “intercourse,” “extreme sexual conduct, way over the line.” I’m going to borrow from my own link above which [caveat] is the heavily excerpted USA Today version [/caveat] but does contain direct quotes from McQueary: > [@](#): > > McQueary says “I did not see insertion or hear screaming or yelling” > [@](#): > > McQueary testified that he heard ‘rhythmic slapping sounds’ as he entered locker room. Said he saw boy with hands on shower wall with Jerry’s arms wrapped around waist. > [@](#): > > “No question at all” when asked if it was a child in the shower with Jerry > [@](#): > > “I know they saw me. They both looked directly in my eyes, both of them,” McQueary said on the stand. McQueary’s mom is on the verge of tears in the back of the room, … McQueary said: “I believe they were having some kind of intercourse. He moved toward shower and Sandusky separated from the boy. He didn’t say anything and left. I was distraught. I was horrified” > [@](#): > > McQueary said over time that evening his decision was to tell Joe Paterno what he saw. When asked why he told Paterno, McQueary said, “He’s the head coach and he needs to know what’s happening in there,” > [@](#): > > McQueary said he later talked through details of incident with Gary Schultz and Tim Curley. McQueary said he described what he saw in shower. > > It was 10 days after he had spoken to Paterno. “There is no question in my mind that I conveyed to them that I saw Jerry Sandusky in the showers with a boy and there was severe sexual acts going on, and it was wrong and over the line,” McQueary said. > > He said Paterno told him he’d “done the right thing” by reporting what he saw. The head coach appeared shocked and saddened and slumped back in his chair, McQueary said on the stand. > > Sitting at Paterno’s kitchen table McQueary related what he saw. He said Sandusky was involved in ‘sexual’ act with a child. He did not describe it as sodomy or anal sex. It did describe it as ‘extremely sexual,’ > [@](#): > > “I didn’t see insertion or penetration. I testify that I cannot tell you 1,000 percent sure that’s what I saw.” McQueary said he saw no part of Sandusky’s genitals touching the boy. > [@](#): > > When asked if Sandusky had an erection, McQueary said, “I don’t know. I don’t look and stare down there.” > [@](#): > > Boy described as caucasian, pre-pubescent, 10-12 years-old. McQueary also acknowledged he left the locker room and left the boy with Sandusky. “I was sure the act was over.” So it remains possible that McQueary did not witness anal rape but some other “sexual” behavior instead. The problem that _certain people in this thread_ keep avoiding, of course, is that even if what McQueary saw was an entirely non-sexual game of soap keepaway, it was still HIGHLY inappropriate and - yes - more than warranted police investigation. Maybe Sandusky was giving the kid the Heimlich manoeuvre (“Pedo bear says: Don’t eat in the shower, kids!”) and saved his life; it doesn’t matter. Let the police ask the questions. I also have to say that although I understand why McQueary fled the scene here (“Gaah! Gay child rape! Must…avert…eyes…lest I see an erection and become gay too!”) he comes out of this looking pretty chickenshit as well. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3427 "2012-02-20T16:10:18Z")
Gah, sorry about the typos in my previous post; was under time pressure and didn’t proofread it adequately. Corrected version: Some excellent points made by **q78** ; I’ll just add that of course it’s hard for **SA** to keep track of everything he said, when, as I believe someone said a while back, he is responsible for more than ten percent of all the posts to an enormous thread such as this one, many of them little more than tedious, excessively wordy restatements of information previously provided. He really does seem to think that repetition somehow increases the validity of something he says, but he’s like the guy at the party who, say, won’t shut up about how we should go back on the gold standard; eventually everyone just rolls their eyes and drifts away. I suppose such a guy thinks he’s won the argument when really, he’s just being ignored. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3428 "2012-02-20T16:35:53Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > You accused me of lying, which clearly implied that you knew the truth which you just admitted you don’t know. I accused you of lying when you said you have already provided an answer (to those who care enough to look), which clearly implied that I don’t know. > [@](#): > > Why do you think that might be? I think it’s because you’re trying to avoid the question. Which, as I’ve said, is debating in very poor faith and a discourtesy to everyone else in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3429 "2012-02-20T18:06:19Z")
Oooh! I wanna play the **SA** lied game, too. I just spotted one. > [@](#): > > When asked if Sandusky had an erection, McQueary said, “I don’t know. I don’t look and stare down there.” Translation into **SA** -speak: “He didn’t have an erection, so no rape occurred.” Lie! Losing! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3430 "2012-02-20T19:00:43Z")
Impossible. Ridiculous. A man is standing far enough away so that you can take him in at a glance, and you don’t _notice_ if he is erect? Now, 'struth, I cannot claim to peer into his mind and ascertain the contents, but I don’t buy that one for a second. ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3431 "2012-02-20T19:17:00Z")
At Sandusky’s age, he might not be able to - did McQueary spot any little blue pills around? No? Then he _couldn’t possibly_ have been doing anything sexual…right? ---
**Author:** ![psychobunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@psychobunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychobunny)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3432 "2012-02-20T19:17:52Z")
What gets me is SA’a assertion that because Sandusky had previously been caught hugging a child in the shower that this was presumably only a case of hugging and therefore not a problem. If you are caught naked hugging a child in the shower and the child is so upset that he complains to his mother who tells the campus police who investigate because the action is suspicious enough to provoke an investigation than if you are not a child molester you make darn sure that you are never in that situation again. Nobody wants to be accused of child molestation and if you find that what you think is an innocent action is in fact highly suspicious for molestation than you don’t do it again. In fact, if you don’t want to be suspected of child molestation you make sure that there is not a possibility that any suspicion could attach to you in the future as the last thing you want is to look like you were stupid enough to do the same suspicious (if not legally criminal) thing twice. If Sandusky was innocent of child molestation he would never have been in a shower with an unrelated child again. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3433 "2012-02-20T19:25:05Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Perfectly, thanks. So, do you still believe that calling the police would have been interfering with the investigation? (you previously held this position) ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3434 "2012-02-20T19:29:50Z")
> [@psychobunny](#): > > What gets me is SA’a assertion that because Sandusky had previously been caught hugging a child in the shower that this was presumably only a case of hugging and therefore not a problem. And with all we know about Sandusky, we can say with a high degree of certainty that the earlier hug was not an innocent hug. Sandusky was doing it for some sort of sexual purpose. It was probably part of his pattern of grooming. Put the kid in increasingly more inappropriate situations and gauge how he reacts. If he doesn’t mind a pat on the back, try putting an arm around his shoulder. Wrestle with him and see how he reacts to “accidental” contact on his genitals. Invite him to a shower and kid around with him. Try touching him in some sort of “innocent” way in the shower. See if he can get away with a hug. Each step along the way doesn’t seem too much worse than the last one. It’s not even clear when the line was crossed. And if he’s called on it, he can refer back to the previous step and say the kid didn’t seem to mind when that other transgression happened. The earlier hug highlights how even more inappropriate the administration’s response was to this victim #2. ---
**Author:** ![Quint](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/76d3ee/32.png) [@Quint](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quint)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3435 "2012-02-20T19:41:25Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Or we could amend it even further and say that if someone was told by an eye witness that they saw some vague, ill-defined activity that they presumed to be sexual taking place the day before, the person to whom this was described thought that maybe it would be better to report the incident to the head of its entity’s own fully accredited (including SWAT team members) police department for investigation as the law and longstanding accepted practice dictated? > > As for the rest of your idiotic little scenario let me just state: > > Winning! For every winning… > [@martu](#): > > Thread synopsis: > > **Rational people** If you hear that a man was seen naked with a young boy in your gym shower room you damn well make sure that kid is safe. That’s it, that is your only responsibility, if you take the step of telling your superiors and letting them handle it you, again, damn well make sure the kid is in no danger. > > **SA** No you only have to do what is legally required, for all you know it could be innocent. > > **Rational people** Well maybe it was innocent, though for the life of us we can’t think of anything innocent that could have been happening, but OK maybe. However did you miss our initial point, namely that **you damn well make sure that kid is safe**. That is your moral responsibility. > > **SA** It might not have been rape, the kid didn’t look in distress, the lights weren’t on, it’s physically impossible, some kids need to be told how to use a shower, > > **Rational people** Did you miss our initial point, namely that **you damn well make sure that kid is safe**. That is your moral responsibility in this scenario. > > **SA** Oh you’re all just anti-Paterno, liberal douches, Nancy Graces > > **Rational people** Did you miss our initial point, namely that **you damn well make sure that kid is safe**. That is your moral responsibility in this scenario whether you are Paterno or Obama or Mitt Romney. > > **SA** Sorry have to go back in a bit, lunch, dinner, the dog has been sick, visitors from Alpha Centauri just landed in my garden, a gladiator movie is on > > **Rational people** Ok not really required, when you come back please understand we aren’t anti-Paterno we are just pointing out he let himself down here, he could and should have done more > > **SA** No you are lying about me > > **Rational people** It’s not about you. > > **SA** Winning! > > **Rational people** WTF? ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3436 "2012-02-20T19:42:43Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > And with all we know about Sandusky, we can say with a high degree of certainty that the earlier hug was not an innocent hug. Sandusky was doing it for some sort of sexual purpose. It was probably part of his pattern of grooming. Put the kid in increasingly more inappropriate situations and gauge how he reacts. If he doesn’t mind a pat on the back, try putting an arm around his shoulder. Wrestle with him and see how he reacts to “accidental” contact on his genitals. Invite him to a shower and kid around with him. Try touching him in some sort of “innocent” way in the shower. See if he can get away with a hug. Each step along the way doesn’t seem too much worse than the last one. It’s not even clear when the line was crossed. And if he’s called on it, he can refer back to the previous step and say the kid didn’t seem to mind when that other transgression happened. The contention or suggestion that the presence of foreplay is near-conclusive proof of the absence of sex should be self-evidently ridiculous to anyone here who’s ever engaged in either or both. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3437 "2012-02-20T19:44:44Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > I don’t have a 7-11 near me, but obviously, I need to find one that still has chocolate covered cherries. Or medical marijuana, whatever. I’d like to find one with rum myself. I need it after reading some of SA’s posts. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3438 "2012-02-20T19:46:17Z")
Tequila and bongwater. Not for the amateur, but you won’t remember a word. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3439 "2012-02-20T19:50:18Z")
The best way to understand SA’s posts is to go back in time and get your mom super drunk while she was pregnant with you. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3440 "2012-02-20T20:25:57Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > The best way to understand SA’s posts is to go back in time and get your mom super drunk while she was pregnant with you. Isn’t that what his mother did in the first place? ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2012, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3441 "2012-02-20T20:33:49Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Isn’t that what his mother did in the first place? **Rum-filled** chocolate covered cherries. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167.md?page=171) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167.md?page=173)