# It's time to officially Pit Joe Paterno and the Penn State football program. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 7, 2011, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167 "2011-11-07T14:23:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/341 "2011-11-09T16:01:21Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > There already IS a plan. Even more, there is a LAW. They don’t need another plan, or another law, if people are going to ignore it. > > Maybe what the law needs is more teeth. I asked upthread what the possible punishment is for failing to report according to the laws requirements, and I haven’t seen an answer. But maybe the penalties need to be ramped up, substantially. I’m not so sure that there is a plan in most places. Maybe each school should set up an Office Of Child Protection, and that office would review all the interactions between the university and any minors that come in for a sports camp or whatever. Maybe it would have an ombudsman who would work with law enforcement to investigate any allegations of abuse. I think there’s a difference between merely promising to obey the law and being proactive in setting up procedures and an organization to try to minimize the opportunities for abuse and for following through on allegations when they come up. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/342 "2011-11-09T16:09:02Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > [According to this](http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11313/1188556-298.stm) the state Attorney General investigation that brought Sandusky to justice was initiated by Corbett. > > Now, I certainly wish Sandusky could have been apprehended earlier, but this would have been difficult with a lack of evidence. Had certain individuals in State College made known what they saw, this might have been wrapped up faster. > > That seems rather obvious. > > I expressed earlier in the thread the contention that reporting procedures ought to be followed strictly. This goes for investigative procedure and due process as well. Wasn’t the grand jury looking into this for the last two years? Anyone else think it’s sad that news of the investigation didn’t break until immediately _after_ JoePa got the total wins record from Eddie Robinson? I find it difficult to believe that it took the G.J. two years to get enough probable cause to lock up Sandusky? If you think all of that, then I don’t see how you avoid the inference that the grand jury and whichever District or U.S. attorney was involved in the investigation, felt that JoePa getting the record and bringing accolades to Penn State, was more important than protecting kids from Sandusky. (Aside, how did the news of the investigation get out? Was it a press conference? Was it leaked by someone associated with the grand jury?) Just disgusting, all of the way around. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/343 "2011-11-09T16:09:45Z")
NPR is reporting that [Paterno is retiring at the end of the season](http://n.npr.org/NPRI/jN255500013_1099169_1099168_Z.htm), and that Tom Ridge is in the running to replace Graham Spanier, who is also on his way out. Frankly, I’m happy about this. Graham Spanier has shown a degree of Penn State hegemony that has really hurt higher education in Pennsylvania, especially professional education. I’m also glad that Paterno’s cult of personality is about to end. Neither has been good for Penn State as a university, or for higher education in PA. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/344 "2011-11-09T16:12:17Z")
Paterno shouldn’t be credited with the wins record anyway. He’s been phoning it in for at least the past 5 seasons. Does he even go on recruiting trips anymore? ---
**Author:** ![mkecane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9e8a1a/32.png) [@mkecane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mkecane)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/345 "2011-11-09T16:13:50Z")
When did the grand jury meet? I’m not too inclined to read through it, but I’m just wondering when Paterno et al were in court, and how that timeline works with Sandusky still making appearances at the football offices/practices as recently as last week. Also, regarding “JoePa’s” integrity and honesty, let’s keep in mind a couple things: 1. This comes from the _sports_ media, who are always willing to talk up a guy that gives good sound bites. The more the media reports that he’s great, the more likely the young reporters on ESPN are to just take it as truth because Dick Schaap had coffee with JoePa back in '77 and they got along great. 2. Penn State was hardly running a clean program in the 00s. I can’t view [ESPN.com](http://ESPN.com) at work, but I saw something a couple nights ago that showed something like 60 players were arrested and charged with crimes in 7 years (including 17 in just one year), and a bit over half of them ended up found guilty. This is in a town where football is king. How many players were let off with a verbal warning by university police? And this was when PSU hasn’t been producing results like during Paterno’s glory days. They’ve made it to, I believe, 1 BCS game in the last 14 years. Now imagine what would have been going on if they were as successful as Ohio State in that same time frame. Well, they were producing results similar to OSU’s in the 70s, 80s, and early 90s. Forgive me for not treating him as a saint. Is he better than Woody Hayes? Maybe, probably. Did he help a lot of his players become good/great people? Surely. But this isn’t a lilly white program with Sandusky being _the_ sole outlier. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/346 "2011-11-09T16:16:11Z")
> [@MsRobyn](#): > > NPR is reporting that [Paterno is retiring at the end of the season](http://n.npr.org/NPRI/jN255500013_1099169_1099168_Z.htm) The thing that bothers me about this (not about your post, but about the facts) is that OF COURSE Paterno’s not going to be coaching the Nittany Lions next year, now that this has broken. The question any reporter should be asking when they’re told this is, “Will he be coaching _this Saturday?_ And if so, why? Why isn’t he already on administrative leave?” ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/347 "2011-11-09T16:16:29Z")
> [@MsRobyn](#): > > NPR is reporting that [Paterno is retiring at the end of the season](http://n.npr.org/NPRI/jN255500013_1099169_1099168_Z.htm), and that Tom Ridge is in the running to replace Graham Spanier, who is also on his way out. First order of business: developing a color-coded child molestation advisory system. ---
**Author:** ![mkecane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9e8a1a/32.png) [@mkecane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mkecane)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/348 "2011-11-09T16:20:43Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > First order of business: developing a color-coded child molestation advisory system. /giggles ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/349 "2011-11-09T16:21:07Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > (Aside, how did the news of the investigation get out? Was it a press conference? Was it leaked by someone associated with the grand jury?) AFAICT, it only became public with the release/unsealing of the indictment on Saturday. Though obviously many, many in State College knew that this slow motion train wreck was unfolding. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/350 "2011-11-09T16:21:30Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > The thing that bothers me about this (not about your post, but about the facts) is that OF COURSE Paterno’s not going to be coaching the Nittany Lions next year, now that this has broken. > > The question any reporter should be asking when they’re told this is, “Will he be coaching _this Saturday?_ And if so, why? Why isn’t he already on administrative leave?” This. Retiring at the end of the season is unacceptable. He should be out NOW, followed in short order by Spanier, Schultz, Curley, McQueary, and anyone else remotely connected to the incidents in question. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/351 "2011-11-09T16:31:19Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > Does he even go on recruiting trips anymore? I don’t know. I do know he isn’t Head of Recruiting. That’s McQueary’s job now. Nice work, bought with silence… ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/352 "2011-11-09T16:36:22Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > I don’t know. I do know he isn’t Head of Recruiting. That’s McQueary’s job now. Nice work, bought with silence… I can’t imagine JP goes on the road, he’s been seriously injured three times in the past five years (another reason 84 year olds should not generally be coaching – two of the injuries were caused by his not being able to get out of the way of a player running out of bounds). Yes, McQueary has risen high in the ranks, and it is an uneasy conjunction to think of him, Sandusky, the Penn State locker rooms, and a bunch of 17 year old guys, not that Sandusky’s interests appear ever to have ranged to such an elderly level. I am going to be officially enraged if there is some arrangement where JP stays through the end of the season (his contract ends then anyhow!) and/or McQueary is not fired in the next three days. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/353 "2011-11-09T16:39:17Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > AFAICT, it only became public with the release/unsealing of the indictment on Saturday. Though obviously many, many in State College knew that this slow motion train wreck was unfolding. O.K., didn’t realize/bother to google that it was an official unsealing of the indictment. I’m still troubled by the timing. And while I’m sympathetic to their not wanting to screw up the investigation by acting early, I find it difficult to believe that sufficient P.C. for arrest didn’t exist until after JoePa got the record. Though it won’t happen, I would really like Ridge to go into Penn State, and do the modern equivalent of cleaning out the Augean Stables. (Bring in a team of forensic accountants, a management team, and fire absolutely everyone associated with the football program. Make them all re-apply for their jobs. Petition the NCAA to allow the players to transfer, if the players wish, w/o sitting out one year.) As I believe you pointed out, **Huerta** , this sounds like a textbook example of lack of institutional control. I know it doesn’t actually meet the NCAA definition for that term, but it sure sounds like it should, doesn’t it? Oddly enough, Deadspin is covering this scandal rather well, with, for once, more content than snark. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/354 "2011-11-09T16:39:47Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > The question any reporter should be asking when they’re told this is, “Will he be coaching _this Saturday?_ And if so, why? Why isn’t he already on administrative leave?” I’m surprised he didn’t resign effective immediately. He really can’t be allowed to stay on board. How would that look? If he is on the sidelines this weekend, what will be the fans’ reaction? Will they cheer him as they did outside his home recently? If so, doesn’t that make the entire Penn State community look pretty bad? If they boo him, what a way to go out. Not that I feel one bit sorry for Joe in all this. I don’t. ---
**Author:** ![mkecane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9e8a1a/32.png) [@mkecane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mkecane)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/355 "2011-11-09T16:42:26Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > O.K., didn’t realize/bother to google that it was an official unsealing of the indictment. I’m still troubled by the timing. And while I’m sympathetic to their not wanting to screw up the investigation by acting early, I find it difficult to believe that sufficient P.C. for arrest didn’t exist until after JoePa got the record. > > Though it won’t happen, I would really like Ridge to go into Penn State, and do the modern equivalent of cleaning out the Augean Stables. (Bring in a team of forensic accountants, a management team, and fire absolutely everyone associated with the football program. Make them all re-apply for their jobs. Petition the NCAA to allow the players to transfer, if the players wish, w/o sitting out one year.) As I believe you pointed out, **Huerta** , this sounds like a textbook example of lack of institutional control. I know it doesn’t actually meet the NCAA definition for that term, but it sure sounds like it should, doesn’t it? > > Oddly enough, Deadspin is covering this scandal rather well, with, for once, more content than snark. Penn State’s also in pole position for an appearance in the first BigTen championship game. Imagine them winning that and then going to the Rose Bowl. In the court of public opinion, they’d probably do well to decline any bowl invitations. It’s unfair to the current players, but life’s not always fair. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/356 "2011-11-09T16:48:32Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > I’m still troubled by the timing. And while I’m sympathetic to their not wanting to screw up the investigation by acting early, I find it difficult to believe that sufficient P.C. for arrest didn’t exist until after JoePa got the record. You aren’t wrong (they could have arrested Sandusky pretty much the moment McQueary gave his evidence and it was corroborated by one third party), but to their credit, the Grand Jury and prosecutors seemed to be trying to get this right, I can’t imagine they indexed it to JP’s win record. If you read the indictment, this is not a case of “a grand jury would indict a ham sandwich” where the prosecutor came in with a boilerplate allegation with only cop testimony to back it. There was some serious investigation and corroboration. N.B. the indictable offenses that we know of took place ten years ago (a scandal in itself that they are only now coming to light, but . . .). They still don’t know the identity of the kid McQueary saw being raped! I put that down not to investigative sloth but to the passage of time and the vagaries of tracking down the sort of at-risk youth that this scumbag preyed upon. There’s a lot of blame to go around (and W. Penn. justice is hardly impeccable, if you followed the story of that Wilkes Barre juvie court judge who was sentencing kids to a for-profit jail in exchange for kickbacks – not as nauseating as this, but close). But here the PSU administration seems a lot more at fault than the law enforcement apparatus (who never really had a chance to go to work after Curley and Shultz suppressed the reports). ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/357 "2011-11-09T17:02:07Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > First order of business: developing a color-coded child molestation advisory system. And having all the windows and doors on campus covered in plastic sheeting and duct tape. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/358 "2011-11-09T17:02:48Z")
He has announced that he will retire at the end of the season. I love his reasoning here. > [@](#): > > Paterno, who set a record this year as the winningest coach in top level college football ever, said it has been his intention to “serve the best interests of this university and the young men who have been entrusted to my care.” > > “That’s why I have decided to announce my retirement effective at the end of this season. At this moment the Board of Trustees should not spend a single minute discussing my status. They have far more important matters to address. I want to make this as easy for them as I possibly can,” Paterno said . I’m sure he hopes they don’t spend any time thinking about his status, because if they do they’ll reach the conclusion that he needs to be fired. ---
**Author:** ![Azeotrope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/0ea827/32.png) [@Azeotrope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Azeotrope)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/359 "2011-11-09T17:03:04Z")
> [@mkecane](#): > > Penn State’s also in pole position for an appearance in the first BigTen championship game. Imagine them winning that and then going to the Rose Bowl. In the court of public opinion, they’d probably do well to decline any bowl invitations. It’s unfair to the current players, but life’s not always fair. I agree that Paterno should step down and that McQueary should lose his job. Their reputations are shot and deservedly so. However, I’ve gone back and forth about forfeiting the rest of the season and any bowl invitations and I don’t think it’s fair to punish the players for what Paterno and McQueary did wrong. None of them were even at the school when Sandusky was committing his crimes. Denying them credit for their athletic achievements (especially the seniors and the ones hoping for a spot in the NFL) because the coaching staff and administration screwed the pooch is like flunking a graduating class because the principal covered up a sex scandal a decade ago. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/360 "2011-11-09T17:06:19Z")
> [@ugly ripe tomato](#): > > However, I’ve gone back and forth about forfeiting the rest of the season and any bowl invitations and I don’t think it’s fair to punish the players for what Paterno and McQueary did wrong. None of them were even at the school when Sandusky was committing his crimes. What do you think about the death penalty for the program, as I’ve suggested (it won’t happen, don’t worry)? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167.md?page=19)