# It's time to officially Pit Joe Paterno and the Penn State football program. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 7, 2011, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167 "2011-11-07T14:23:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 192
**Author:** ![ScarletNumber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c0e974/32.png) [@ScarletNumber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ScarletNumber)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3822 "2012-07-12T20:25:50Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > Well, yeah. Rapping children should have been banned a long time ago. It’s something to do with their affectation of the idioms and attitude of hip hop. It’s too old and worldly-wise. Doesn’t suit a child at all. LOL Remember Kris Kross? Anyway, the Penn State case has taught me that people love to use the word “rape”. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3823 "2012-07-12T20:39:56Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > There has to be a rule specifically banning rapping children for the NCAA? REALLY? Not to split hairs or anything, but punishment for the actual crime of raping children is left to the State. It’s not something the NCAA should get involved in. Much like it leaves the prosecution for murder or speeding or whatever committed by college athletes to the proper authorities. Otherwise, we’re encouraging vigilante justice. What DOES come under their purview is how much the culture of the university, and the athletics department in particular, enabled or encouraged illegal acts and covered them up. If the NCAA hands down a punishment at all, it shouldn’t be for the actual child molestation (which should be left to the State) but for the culture in the athletics department that encouraged the idea that some people shouldn’t be reported. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3824 "2012-07-12T20:51:46Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > If there’s one thing I’ve learned about college athletics in my life, it’s that the fans will forgive any abuse, any outrage, any crime, so long as they can sit down and drink their beer and watch the gaaaaaaaaame. Not true. There is one infraction so heinous that it can not be forgiven. People involved with big-time college sports are loathe to even speak its name. Losing. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2012, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3825 "2012-07-12T21:25:56Z")
> [@ScarletNumber](#): > > LOL Remember Kris Kross? > > Anyway, the Penn State case has taught me that people love to use the word “rape”. I can’t believe you just said that, it’s completely out of character. Oh wait, I thought you were Scarlet67, never mind. ---
**Author:** ![R.P.McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@R.P.McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R.P.McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3826 "2012-07-13T01:21:33Z")
Hate to say “I told you so” (actually I love to say “I told you so”). For all the shit this thread has been through, looking back, my OP was spot on. 'Nuff said. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3827 "2012-07-13T02:10:12Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > The reporting law stipulates that the report should be made to your superior or supervisor, who should then contact the authorities on behalf of the institution. Probably the intent of this clause was to ensure that authorities would only have to deal with a single coherent complaint. This seems to be a problem with the legislation that should be fixed in the very near future. > > This likely insulates the GA from prosecution, by my guess. > > It might not insulate Paterno, since his subsequent actions were in the service of a conspiracy to defeat the intent of the mandated reporting law. Paterno had the power to pull this off, the GA did not. I called this in post #35. It would have been better by far if I was wrong. ---
**Author:** ![mkecane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9e8a1a/32.png) [@mkecane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mkecane)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3828 "2012-07-13T02:11:03Z")
> [@ScarletNumber](#): > > Anyway, the Penn State case has taught me that people love to use the word “rape”. I like rape! ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3829 "2012-07-13T02:15:21Z")
> [@R.P.McMurphy](#): > > Hate to say “I told you so” (actually I love to say “I told you so”). For all the shit this thread has been through, looking back, my OP was spot on. > > 'Nuff said. If I were you, I don’t know if I’d be stepping up to claim a lot of credit for this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3830 "2012-07-13T02:32:35Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > What PSU, Spanier, Paterno, etc did is like sending victims back to Dahmer. But remember: 2 Milwaukee cops actually did this, despite the protests of two women who tried to protect the escaped child. And the senior cop was later elected President of the Milwaukee Police Federation. And is now happily living out his retirement, on a pension paid by taxpayers. My cynicism grows more each year. I expect that the NCAA will give Penn State nothing more than a minor penalty. ---
**Author:** ![R.P.McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@R.P.McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R.P.McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3831 "2012-07-13T03:38:43Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > If I were you, I don’t know if I’d be stepping up to claim a lot of credit for this thread. Please, get a clue. If you have a year to read though it you would realize that I don’t take credit for the thread. I actually thought it would die in a day or two as I stated in my posts. I do take claim to the OP which the Freeh investigation substantiated. Like it or not, Freeh had more access to more information than anyone that had an opinion on the matter, including me. After all the shit that has come down, including a trial, the information, the pitting and the opinion in the OP stands. I do take credit for that. For the record, here is the OP: > [@](#): > > It’s time to officially Pit Joe Paterno and the Penn State football program. > Joe Paterno should have retired years ago with his reputation in tact. Now he can go out in the midst of a horrid scandal. > > [http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/co...ticle-1.973110](http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/co...ticle-1.973110) > > The accusations in this scandal are really serious and really ugly. > > PSU Athletic Dept./Catholic Bishops = despicable enablers of crime. > > So here’s to you Paterno and your bosses, wallow in the Pit of the despised. I never, ever thought that Joe Pa should end his life in jail but now I’m not so sure. He built his legacy on helping young boys. I guess it really wasn’t that way. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3832 "2012-07-13T03:53:58Z")
At this point, outside the kids that were abused, I feel the most for Joe Paterno’s family. If they don’t try to protect his legacy, they feel like they’re betraying someone they loved and respected more than anyone. They basked in his glory their whole lives and now they’re anchored in so many ways. The internal struggle that each much face trying to reconcile his former greatness with what has been exposed about him… I wouldn’t wish on anyone. Poor Jay is on ESPN fighting the “good” fight, but he’ll probably cry his eyes out later. Could you imagine the person you love and admire the most being exposed this way? It makes me sick just thinking about it. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3833 "2012-07-13T05:40:03Z")
> [@R.P.McMurphy](#): > > Hate to say “I told you so” (actually I love to say “I told you so”). For all the shit this thread has been through, looking back, my OP was spot on. > > 'Nuff said. Just reread it and, yeah, you called it. ---
**Author:** ![al27052](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3834 "2012-07-13T05:51:26Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > Actually, the NCAA has never used the death penalty again on a D1 athletic program. It has only been used twice since SMU, a DII soccer team and a DIII tennis team. > > As for the results of the SMU death penalty, they’re pretty well known. Have you heard much of SMU as a football program or even as a university since about 1989? I attended SMU from 93-97, and I can tell you, the football program not only _hasn’t_ recovered, it will _never_ recover. In 23 years, SMU football has made almost no significant headway. The university has had some good things happen (the arts school has definitely gotten tons better), but football-wise, forget it. That’s fine with me, I don’t give a shit about football It causes more deaths, acute injuries, and long-term lingering joint and TBI problems than any other major sport in the US by a huge margin, and it encourages violence and thuggery as well. But let’s be clear–the death penalty for Penn State football is going to be a huge blow to the university. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3835 "2012-07-13T10:08:29Z")
Another call for the death penalty. It would serve them right. Makes you wonder if the people we work for would do the same thing as the Penn State people did. Actually, I am quite certain the people I work for would in fact do the same thing. Next I wonder about this discussion about head trauma in the NFL. If a university was willing to allow child rape to protect their fundraising, don’t you suppose the NFL would overlook preventable head injuries to protect their cash flow? But, as I said, ban Penn State for a couple of years. Maybe offer other programs a thirty-day amnesty program to get them to come clean. If they are caught after that, double secret death penalty for them. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3836 "2012-07-13T11:16:51Z")
> [@al27052](#): > > But let’s be clear–the death penalty for Penn State football is going to be a huge blow to the university. Holy crap, yes. While Penn State is a lot more than its football program, football is a huge money funnel to the university. And not only that: if the stadium goes dark that’s not only going to be a huge blow to the university money-wise but to the whole damn town, considering the tens of thousands of people who pour into town every weekend in the fall and spend, spend, spend. State College is going to be hurting very badly indeed. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3837 "2012-07-13T11:25:29Z")
Old Joe got off easy by dying if you ask me. He never took any responsibility for the part he played in this sad affair. The university is going to pay a hefty price in more ways than one. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3838 "2012-07-13T11:35:13Z")
Actually Sandusky mostly got away with it. Ideally, from his point of view, he would have died before being turned in. As it is, he is so old that any time he serves in jail will be a steep discount compared to what he deserves. All in all, this was close to the best-case scenario for Coach Jerry. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3839 "2012-07-13T15:43:14Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > Doesn’t suit a child at all. [No doubt](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcdBxRPIQBw). > [@mkecane](#): > > I like rape! [Why don’t you take a seat over there](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8P4r5CqI8s)? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3840 "2012-07-13T16:40:58Z")
There’s not that much left to say about all this, but then again we probably could have skipped the last 50 or 60 pages and waited for the Freeh report. 😉 I haven’t read the report itself, but I’ve read a few articles about the greatest hits. One of the things that jumps out to me is how absolutely damning the report is compared to what after-the-fact investigations into scandals of this type usually look like. If those reports are not actual whitewashes, you typically get a conclusion that says ‘nobody did themselves proud, but there’s no proof of deliberate wrongdoing and nobody was in possession of all of the facts, so this situation unfolded.’ The report shows very clearly that these guys were aware of the allegations as far back as 1998 and makes it obvious that Paterno dissuaded the administration from going to the police, and then after getting McQueary’s report in 2011, they still did nothing. This is what happens when people in power decide their Institution is more important than any individual people who might happen to get hurt by the people associated with the institution. The football program and the school, and the reputations of both - and of course their own asses - were the first considerations here. And it goes without saying that ultimately, all the administrators who felt Joe Paterno had too much power at Penn State were right. He contributed a lot to the university, but he shouldn’t have had this kind of sway at all. He got far too much deference because of the financial value of the program and the alumni support for that program and for Paterno personally. I’m not sure anybody is still standing up for him at this point, but I wish people would stop with this bullshit about how they regret the damage to his legacy. Leaving out the fact that a large chunk of it was hype to begin with, the damage to his reputation was self-inflicted. While his career did do some good for people directly and indirectly, he chose how he was going to handle this. Maybe people should be sorry he betrayed his own purported standards at a moment that was much more important than any football game, but it’s stupid to be sorry that doing something this horrific outweighs winning football games and mentoring players. I think people who spout this kind of crap should imagine how we’d look at Paterno if he’d gotten rid of Sandusky immediately and insisted that Penn State administration and employees tell the board and the police everything they knew and cooperate with any investigation no matter the cost to his reputation and his football program- imagine how people would talk about him if this child molester were about a decade into a life sentence and Paterno had maybe continued to coach and just died in January- imagine if he’d really acted like the guy everybody (including Paterno) said he was. Then look at the difference between that scenario and what actually happened. On a certain level, yes, you have to feel bad for the Paterno family because they certainly bought into the hype of Joe Paterno being a living saint, and even if they didn’t it must be hard to hear the entire country trash a loved one. But they really do need to shut up and go away for a while. Their statement pretty much boils down to “Who are you gonna believe: the facts or Joe Paterno’s pre-2011 reputation?” It’s hard to even understand how they can say this stuff knowing what happened. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2012, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3841 "2012-07-13T16:55:35Z")
Good post. I will say, however, that exposure in 2001 would likely have meant the end of Joe Pa’s coaching career. I don’t see how he could have survived such a scandal after employing a pedophile for multiple decades. That doesn’t excuse his actions at all. We all wonder what we would do when faced with a tough decision, but Paterno went to his grave knowing he actually faced one and made the wrong choice. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167.md?page=191) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167.md?page=193)