# It's time to officially Pit Joe Paterno and the Penn State football program. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 7, 2011, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167 "2011-11-07T14:23:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 195
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2012, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3882 "2012-07-14T17:13:14Z")
But the scandal\*\* is\*\* affecting the football program, and the prestige of the school. If they weren’t concerned with the public image of the scandal, what would be the motive for covering it up and trying to handle it internally in order to avoid public scrutiny? ETA: In response to **RNATB** ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2012, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3883 "2012-07-14T17:23:08Z")
The _scandal_ is. I don’t think it would have it had been handled properly in the first place. Nobody would hold it against Penn State that they _used to_ employ a child rapist and reported it to the proper authorities. If the school knew about Sandusky earlier on - say, when he was actually coaching - they would certainly have a motivation to cover it up, but nothing in the Freeh report suggests that, as far as I can tell. I think the actual motive is what I suggested above - Joe Pa being a dick and putting his friend over the welfare of children. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2012, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3884 "2012-07-14T17:28:14Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Of all the creepy and sad things about the story and the Freeh report, I think this is the creepiest part of the actions (or lack of them) by the senior administrators. I appears in the timeline as March 5, 2001 and refers to the still-unidentified victim McQueary saw being abused: > > > [@](#): > > > > … Sandusky offered to provide the name of the boy to Curley, but Curley did not want the boy’s name. … > > The source is Sandusky’s lawyer, so it’s likely second-hand and therefor suspect, but appalling if true. I forgot to make my point about this quote. It utterly destroys the rationale that Penn State apologists have been using since the start of the scandal – that Curley and the other senior Penn officials were unsure what actually happened, and wanted to investigate the situation before involving law enforcement. Sandusky may have offered the name confident that the child would back up his story, but Curley didn’t want to investigate _even that much_. He took Sandusky at his word, and _made certain_ that was the end of the investigation. Because without the child’s name, there were no other avenues of investigation open. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2012, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3885 "2012-07-14T17:28:23Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The _scandal_ is. I don’t think it would have it had been handled properly in the first place. Nobody would hold it against Penn State that they _used to_ employ a child rapist and reported it to the proper authorities. If the school knew about Sandusky earlier on - say, when he was actually coaching - they would certainly have a motivation to cover it up, but nothing in the Freeh report suggests that, as far as I can tell. > > I think the actual motive is what I suggested above - Joe Pa being a dick and putting his friend over the welfare of children. That doesn’t refute what I was saying earlier though. The goal of the coverup was to protect the program. Whether or not reporting him earlier on would have prevented the scandal is irrelevant, they went with “coverup”, for the purpose of protecting the reputation of the school and the athletic program, which would give the NCAA latitude to punish them according to the rules of their governing body. What Paterno did didn’t occur in a vacuum, it occurred with the assistance of the administration of the school. So it doesn’t matter if it was Paterno’s goal to “protect his friend”, the school administration must have felt either a strong loyalty to Paterno to follow his wishes on the matter, or they were personally concerned with how the report would make the school and/or athletic program appear to the public at large. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2012, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3886 "2012-07-14T17:35:22Z")
> [@Autolycus](#): > > Gosh, I never thought I’d catch myself saying this, but after all the recent posts in this thread, I’m starting to miss the contributions of our former guest of honor. At least they were amusing. I hear Penn State is redoing the showers. Perhaps they are removing all the paper towel tubes? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2012, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3887 "2012-07-14T17:40:21Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > That doesn’t refute what I was saying earlier though. The goal of the coverup was to protect the program. Whether or not reporting him earlier on would have prevented the scandal is irrelevant, they went with “coverup”, for the purpose of protecting the reputation of the school and the athletic program, which would give the NCAA latitude to punish them according to the rules of their governing body. What Paterno did didn’t occur in a vacuum, it occurred with the assistance of the administration of the school. So it doesn’t matter if it was Paterno’s goal to “protect his friend”, the school administration must have felt either a strong loyalty to Paterno to follow his wishes on the matter, or they were personally concerned with how the report would make the school and/or athletic program appear to the public at large. Okay, I can buy that. I still don’t think NCAA sanctions are appropriate, but I am no longer opposed to them. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2012, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3888 "2012-07-14T17:46:09Z")
And yet, after all this time, after months of investigation, a grand jury indictment, a trial resulting in a guilty verdict for 45 counts of child rape and/or molestation, and an independent investigation which identifies a deliberate conspiracy to enable a pedophile… We still have motherfucking scumbags attempting to claim that this is all about a persecution of Joe Paterno for no discernible reason. There comes a point where protestations of “there’s another possible reason for all of this! There’s another possible explanation that exonerates the people involved! Why won’t you consider this other possible explanation?!” reveal that the protestor is a morally repugnant vile piece of animal excrement. Arguing for the sake of arguing is certainly a fun thing to do in other situations, but in the case of a multi-year cover-up of the rape of children for the purposes of maintaining the reputation of a sports team and the supposed demi-god that ran in, it’s evidence of a gross lack of class. Your heroes, Paterno and Penn State defenders, sacrificed the mental health and physical well-being of actual, real children in the service of football. Play “what if? what about? It could be…? Here’s a loophole that could possibly make this less disgusting…” all you want. Your pedantic hair-splitting games don’t negate the mountain of evidence. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2012, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3889 "2012-07-14T17:48:44Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I forgot to make my point about this quote. It utterly destroys the rationale that Penn State apologists have been using since the start of the scandal – that Curley and the other senior Penn officials were unsure what actually happened, and wanted to investigate the situation before involving law enforcement. Sandusky may have offered the name confident that the child would back up his story, but Curley didn’t want to investigate _even that much_. He took Sandusky at his word, and _made certain_ that was the end of the investigation. Because without the child’s name, there were no other avenues of investigation open. I think this is a really important point. Willful ignorance ought not protect you: there are times when you have a positive duty to ask questions even if you would rather not hear the answers, or really, rather live in a universe where the answers are different. ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3890 "2012-07-15T15:48:27Z")
It looks the statue will remain standing for now: > **[Sources: Statue of Paterno will remain for now](https://www.espn.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/8166643/joe-paterno-statue-remain-penn-state-sources-say)** > > The embattled members of Penn State's Board of Trustees have quietly decided to leave Joe Paterno's statue standing -- at least for now and, some hope, forever, according to sources with firsthand knowledge of the trustees' private discussions this... > [@](#): > > The trustees’ reluctance to remove the statue is motivated, in part, by a desire not to offend alumni and students who adore the late coach despite the damning findings of his role in the Jerry Sandusky child sexual abuse cover-up detailed in the Freeh report, the sources said. Some trustees also said in interviews they want to resist being pressured by the media into a sudden decision about such an emotionally charged issue. Also this: > [@](#): > > But privately, Peetz, board member Ken Frazier and most of the other trustees, whose leadership on the Sandusky matter as a whole was harshly criticized by the Freeh report, spoke adamantly about the need to keep the statue standing, the sources told “Outside the Lines.” They said they hoped the passage of time would prove to be an ally, sources said. > > The trustees “are hoping they can have more time pass and people will forget about it and then it won’t come down,” one trustee said. And this: > [@](#): > > Since firing Paterno without hearing from him last November, the trustees have repeatedly clashed with Paterno and his family. They have traded barbed press releases. Their negotiation over a paid settlement on Paterno’s last contract was a bitter dispute resolved weeks ago. > > Some alumni groups have continued to call for resignations of trustees, and one trustee said this about the statue: “We don’t want to further upset the alumni.” ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3891 "2012-07-15T15:58:45Z")
I think it’s fine to leave the statue up. In fact they should add another statue – of a naked young boy standing but bent over and grabbing his ankles. Place the young boy behind Joe’s statue, so it’s clear that Joe is looking the other direction and paying no attention to the boy. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3892 "2012-07-15T16:29:51Z")
> [@Kolga](#): > > And yet, after all this time, after months of investigation, a grand jury indictment, a trial resulting in a guilty verdict for 45 counts of child rape and/or molestation, and an independent investigation which identifies a deliberate conspiracy to enable a pedophile… > > We still have motherfucking scumbags attempting to claim that this is all about a persecution of Joe Paterno for no discernible reason. Are you talking about _me_? If so, you clearly didn’t read my posts. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3893 "2012-07-15T16:53:07Z")
She’s talking about **Fotheringay** ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3894 "2012-07-15T17:01:53Z")
I assume, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3895 "2012-07-15T17:13:00Z")
Oh. Carry on, then. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3896 "2012-07-15T17:30:16Z")
> [@MsRobyn](#): > > As soon as all the legal stuff is over, PSU is planning to renovate and change the Lasch building, and especially the shower area. Our news reported that an initial plan for changing the showers involved adding cameras to cover every single angle from the locker room entrance to the showers to the toilets. Then someone thought a bit about it… :smack: ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3897 "2012-07-15T17:37:22Z")
If they made those cameras pay per view they could probably raise a bunch of money for the victims. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3898 "2012-07-15T17:41:27Z")
One of the more disgusting aspects of this was this I saw on CNN. From: [http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/13/us/pennsylvania-penn-state-investigation/index.html?iref=allsearch](http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/13/us/pennsylvania-penn-state-investigation/index.html?iref=allsearch) > [@](#): > > “They witness what I think in the report is probably the most horrific rape that’s described,” Freeh told reporters. “And what do they do? They panic.” One janitor, a Korean War veteran, said it was “the worst thing he’s ever seen.” He and other janitors were “alarmed and shocked,” but were afraid that if they reported it, they’d be fired. This “American hero” veteran decided that risking his job as a janitor was more important than saving a kid form being raped. If I was at work and saw the CEO of my company raping a little boy, I would step right up and ensure that not one more second of abuse passed, and fuck my job and career. And my critics can whinge all they want to about “but…in this _economyyyyyyyyy_ you gotta understand his job was important…” and I’ll reply “in ANY economy not allowing men to do evil like this is MORE important.” Aside from the fact that were he fired for something like this he could probably flip open the phone book and stab with his finger to find any lawyer who would take his case with no money up-front to sue the University. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3899 "2012-07-15T18:13:45Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Are you talking about _me_? If so, you clearly didn’t read my posts. No. > [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > She’s talking about **Fotheringay** Yes. And others. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Oh. Carry on, then. Indeed 😃 ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3900 "2012-07-15T18:42:15Z")
Back when this scandal first broke, I posted about it on Facebook, and one of my online acquaintances who happens to be a Penn State alumna, got fairly shrieky with me about not calling it “the Penn State scandal.” She insisted that it should be “the Sandusky scandal” because he was the primary offender and it wasn’t the school’s fault, yadda yadda. I’m not stirring that pot again, but I have to wonder how she feels about it now. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2012, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3901 "2012-07-15T18:43:08Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > I don’t need to be an apologist for the Steelers to point out that a quarterback with criminal convictions plays in Philadelphia. > > Why did you not include him in your insightful analysis? This is hardly a phenomenon unique to a certain part on Pennsylvania. I can name a dozen athletes, across a range of sports, guilty of astonishingly terrible behaviour who continued to be cheered in a dozen different cities as long as they played well. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167.md?page=194) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167.md?page=196)