# It's time to officially Pit Joe Paterno and the Penn State football program. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 7, 2011, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167 "2011-11-07T14:23:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 197
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3922 "2012-07-16T13:14:23Z")
And no designer colors… they’re whitewashing everything. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3923 "2012-07-16T14:52:15Z")
If the NCAA doesn’t impose the death penalty, then I will be disgusted. They need to send a clear message to sports programs that the consequences for obstructing criminal investigations, for any reason, will be severe and long-lasting. There is no question in my mind, after reading excerpts of the Freeh report, that several university officials stifled criminal investigations of deeply troubling allegations, because they cared more about their football program than they did about seeking justice. The NCAA needs to impose a penalty so severe that no one will ever be tempted to make the same mistake. Obviously, their moral compass didn’t guide them. Let future university officials stew on the financial impact of closing down their program for a year, before deciding whether to involve the police. Let’s be clear: Curley, Paterno’s (et al) actions, not Sandusky’s, is what (will/should) lead to a poleaxing of their football program. An arrest and even conviction of Sandusky would have been embarrassing, but hardly an indictment against the football program as a whole. Re the statue of Paterno. It should be removed as soon as possible, BY THE UNIVERSITY. He is not only a disgrace as a human being, but he has caused irreparable harm to both the Penn State football program and entire university. Perhaps they’ll wake up after the first lawsuit is settled, and the victim brings up the statue as further evidence of Penn State’s blind loyalty to a football coach that they allowed to become way too powerful. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3924 "2012-07-16T15:08:41Z")
Regarding the statue: I heard on ESPN radio that an ESPN nationwide poll concluded that an overwhelming majority think the statue should be removed. A local radio station in (or near) Happy Valley did their own poll and the overwhelming majority think the statue should remain. That’s very informal information, so take what you want from that. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3925 "2012-07-16T15:52:27Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > Regarding the statue: I heard on ESPN radio that an ESPN nationwide poll concluded that an overwhelming majority think the statue should be removed. A local radio station in (or near) Happy Valley did their own poll and the overwhelming majority think the statue should remain. That’s very informal information, so take what you want from that. I take it that the Nile has relocated. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3926 "2012-07-16T16:41:43Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > I take it that the Nile has relocated. Seriously, until you’ve lived in State College for a little while, at least, you just do not GRASP what Paterno was/is in that area. There will be a significant number of State Collegians who will deny that Paterno did anything wrong 60 years from now, at least. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3927 "2012-07-16T16:52:48Z")
> [@Mithras](#): > > What “they” are you referring to? Because it reads like you mean Paterno and the administration. Which is fucking crazy. Their duty was to report the incident to law enforcement. It wasn’t to investigate. It wasn’t to discuss it with Sandusky. It wasn’t to discuss whether to inform Sandusky’s charity. It was to tell an authority above themselves. The report makes it appear that they didn’t believe such an authority existed. So yeah, I guess if you agree with that mindset, it’s not as crazy to suggest that they should have made an attempt to interview the kid. I was responding to someone else who made an issue of the interview issue. As to whether they should have reported it, I suppose again that it depends on what they knew and what they would have known after speaking to the kid and his parents. If the kid would have made a convincing case that the whole thing was a misunderstanding by McQueary, then possibly they wouldn’t have to report it. Although I imagine they should have gone back to McQueary and discussed the possibilty that he was mistaken. I don’t know, and in any event this is all theoretical, because in actual fact they apparently did nothing beyond notifying SM, so they clearly didn’t do enough. This applies to C&S. Paterno’s situation is a bit murkier, because it wasn’t really his job. But I do think the Freeh report damages him as well. Because it’s apparent that he was involved to some extent in managing the situation. While as above I don’t think it’s at all clear that he instructed C&S to refrain from calling DPW, the fact is that he was involved in managing the situation, and was not - as he claimed (IIRC) - handing it off to C&S because it was outside his area of expertise and he didn’t want to influence the investigation. So he has to shoulder some of the blame in this regard as well. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3928 "2012-07-16T17:07:42Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > This “American hero” veteran decided that risking his job as a janitor was more important than saving a kid form being raped. > > If I was at work and saw the CEO of my company raping a little boy, I would step right up and ensure that not one more second of abuse passed, and fuck my job and career. And my critics can whinge all they want to about “but…in this _economyyyyyyyyy_ you gotta understand his job was important…” and I’ll reply “in ANY economy not allowing men to do evil like this is MORE important.” You are highly employable, with in-demand education and training, and you reside in an area which offers you numerous alternative employment opportunities. You’ve also got lots of money. This guy was a college janitor, who resides in a town which has a college and fuck-all else. Hell, snitching on the PSU football program might have gotten him blackballed for whatever other employers _do_ exist in the State College area. That isn’t to say that not reporting the rape of a child is excusable, of course. It’s just not necessarily fair to compare what you would have done to what he didn’t do, considering your relative situations. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3929 "2012-07-16T17:19:43Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > As to whether they should have reported it, I suppose again that it depends on what they knew and what they would have known after speaking to the kid and his parents. If the kid would have made a convincing case that the whole thing was a misunderstanding by McQueary, then possibly they wouldn’t have to report it. No, they had a duty to report it the second the allegation was made. They are university administrators, not law enforcement officers. They have no more business conducting a rape investigation than Bozo the clown. Actually, they have LESS business questioning anyone because they are hardly a disinterested third party. They have a vested interest in obtaining a certain outcome and therefore risk poisoning the investigation with their interference. ---
**Author:** ![Mithras](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f04885/32.png) [@Mithras](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mithras)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3930 "2012-07-16T17:50:26Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I was responding to someone else who made an issue of the interview issue. > > As to whether they should have reported it, I suppose again that it depends on what they knew and what they would have known after speaking to the kid and his parents. If the kid would have made a convincing case that the whole thing was a misunderstanding by McQueary, then possibly they wouldn’t have to report it. Although I imagine they should have gone back to McQueary and discussed the possibilty that he was mistaken. I don’t know, and in any event this is all theoretical, because in actual fact they apparently did nothing beyond notifying SM, so they clearly didn’t do enough. You can say that the fucking crazy thing you said or agreed with was only in response to someone else, but when you then construct an entire paragraph assuming people should have done that fucking crazy thing, it becomes your own. I’ll say this explicitly so that if you’re ever in the same situation the leaders of Penn State were in you don’t end up in as much trouble as they are: **If someone in your employ reports that they saw someone who is or was a part of your organisation doing something sexual with a child, ensure it is reported to the governmental agency with the power and responsibility to investigate the action. Do not try to interview the child. Do not try to interview his parents.** It’s baffling that you could believe that there’s something to be gained from an administrator talking to the ten year-old, let alone that there’s something he could say in that situation that would convince you not to report. And that you get all wishy-washy at the end of that paragraph is exactly the type of thinking that leads to this kind of situation in the first place. > [@](#): > > This applies to C&S. Paterno’s situation is a bit murkier, because it wasn’t really his job. But I do think the Freeh report damages him as well. Because it’s apparent that he was involved to some extent in managing the situation. While as above I don’t think it’s at all clear that he instructed C&S to refrain from calling DPW, the fact is that he was involved in managing the situation, and was not - as he claimed (IIRC) - handing it off to C&S because it was outside his area of expertise and he didn’t want to influence the investigation. So he has to shoulder some of the blame in this regard as well. Well, if the degree of guilt Paterno has is somewhere between agreeing with his fellow leaders that child abuse shouldn’t be reported and actively advocating that it should not then I feel fully justified in saying, “Fuck him.” ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3931 "2012-07-16T18:09:39Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > As to whether they should have reported it, I suppose again that it depends on what they knew and what they would have known after speaking to the kid and his parents. If the kid would have made a convincing case that the whole thing was a misunderstanding by McQueary, then possibly they wouldn’t have to report it. Although I imagine they should have gone back to McQueary and discussed the possibilty that he was mistaken. This…is just fucking nuts. I’m not going to address it directly because it’s pretty clear this is either some expert-level trollery or you are indeed crazy to suggest that the athletic director of a university should sit down and interview the alleged 10 year old victim of rape and see if he could “make a convincing case that the whole thing was a misunderstanding”. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3932 "2012-07-16T18:14:07Z")
You see that kind of idiotic shit pretty often even at this site. In thread after thread people get it into their heads that you need to have ironclad proof of a crime before you go to the police rather than, you know, reporting the crime to the police and letting the police investigate and collect the evidence because that’s the job of the police. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3933 "2012-07-16T18:17:40Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > This…is just fucking nuts. I’m not going to address it directly because it’s pretty clear this is either some expert-level trollery or you are indeed crazy to suggest that the athletic director of a university should sit down and interview the alleged 10 year old victim of rape and see if he could “make a convincing case that the whole thing was a misunderstanding”. He’s not nuts and I don’t think he’s a troll. He’s just a Grade A douchebag who has been trying to justify Paterno’s failure to take action for most of this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3934 "2012-07-16T18:18:41Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > That isn’t to say that not reporting the rape of a child is excusable, of course. It’s just not necessarily fair to compare what you would have done to what he didn’t do, considering your relative situations. In my moral code it is the same thing. When the weak and helpless, such as kids, are being tormented and abused you only wait long enough to make sure you’re seeing what you think you’re seeing. I feel confident I would have done the same thing back when I was working fast food and living hand to mouth. That’s just the sort of person I am. I’ve been raped. And physically sexually harassed at work, too, believe it or not. I will not allow it to happen to someone else. And I have…great, great difficulty giving anyone a pass who allows others to suffer as I did. And let’s be blunt - a janitor is not a highly specialized job. I imagine he could have found employment at a wide variety of places. Whereas my being fired could very well result in me being blacklisted from further employment, due to the very tight little community of people I work with. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3935 "2012-07-16T18:44:01Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > And let’s be blunt - a janitor is not a highly specialized job. I imagine he could have found employment at a wide variety of places. Whereas my being fired could very well result in me being blacklisted from further employment, due to the very tight little community of people I work with. Maybe not where you live, but State College is a one-horse town, and that horse is The Pennsylvania State University. If you are lucky enough to get at job at Penn State, you do what you must to keep it because there probably aren’t any jobs as good as that one, and you know there is a nice, long list of people who would be grateful to have your job. The custodial staff were probably covered under various whistleblower statutes, and probably could have reported what they saw anonymously. But that’s cold comfort to a man who probably just wants to get his paycheck and his pension and not cause trouble. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3936 "2012-07-16T19:11:51Z")
> [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > He’s not nuts and I don’t think he’s a troll. He’s just a Grade A douchebag who has been trying to justify Paterno’s failure to take action for most of this thread. Oh, good, it’s not just me. For a while, I was starting to think I was missing something. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3937 "2012-07-16T20:59:17Z")
Paterno’s family [disagrees with the Freeh report](http://content.usatoday.com/communities/campusrivalry/post/2012/07/joe-paterno-family-to-form-own-group-of-experts/1)and vows to continue their own investigation. I wish them luck on their search for the real shirkers. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3938 "2012-07-16T21:09:59Z")
> [@Mithras](#): > > You can say that the fucking crazy thing you said or agreed with was only in response to someone else, but when you then construct an entire paragraph assuming people should have done that fucking crazy thing, it becomes your own. I assumed you were referring to the fact that I did not discuss reporting it, which was in fact because I was commenting on a post which did not refer to it. > [@](#): > > I’ll say this explicitly so that if you’re ever in the same situation the leaders of Penn State were in you don’t end up in as much trouble as they are: > > **If someone in your employ reports that they saw someone who is or was a part of your organisation doing something sexual with a child, ensure it is reported to the governmental agency with the power and responsibility to investigate the action. Do not try to interview the child. Do not try to interview his parents.** > > It’s baffling that you could believe that there’s something to be gained from an administrator talking to the ten year-old, let alone that there’s something he could say in that situation that would convince you not to report. It’s frequently the case that outside observers of a situation completely misunderstand it. Including and perhaps especially outside observers who become distraught at the sight. So it is very possible that if you speak to the kid you will find out that nothing actually happened. IMO, someone who hears a second hand account of abuse and rushes off to report it to the police without even bothering to ask the putative victim what his version is is stupid and immoral. (Besides for the above, it’s also possible that the victim doesn’t want to involve the police, and their wishes should be respected.) > [@](#): > > Well, if the degree of guilt Paterno has is somewhere between agreeing with his fellow leaders that child abuse shouldn’t be reported and actively advocating that it should not then I feel fully justified in saying, “Fuck him.” It’s possible that no one ever actively decided that this should not be reported. From the emails cited in Freeh’s report it appears that the question of whether to report to DPW was left open, to be decided later, and it’s possible that they just dropped the ball in following up. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3939 "2012-07-16T21:16:52Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > It’s possible that no one ever actively decided that this should not be reported. From the emails cited in Freeh’s report it appears that the question of whether to report to DPW was left open, to be decided later, and it’s possible that they just dropped the ball in following up. Just dropped the ball??? One of the points made in the Freeh report is the COMPLETE lack of regard for the victims in any communications made between the responsible parties at PSU. So if they “dropped the ball” as you say it would be because of the cruel indifference to the victims in this case. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3940 "2012-07-16T21:19:32Z")
‘Did we tell the authorities about that child rapist or not? Aw, I can’t remember. Oops!’ ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2012, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/3941 "2012-07-16T21:42:44Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > It’s frequently the case that outside observers of a situation completely misunderstand it. That is precisely why you call the police and let them do their job, especially when it involves something so diabolical. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167.md?page=196) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167.md?page=198)