# It's time to officially Pit Joe Paterno and the Penn State football program. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 7, 2011, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167 "2011-11-07T14:23:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 202
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/4022 "2012-07-17T18:06:06Z")
“I just saw Sandusky raping a kid in the shower!” “That’s impossible-- he was investigated for that already, years ago!” “Oh… whew! Moving on…” ---
**Author:** ![Ian\_D.Bergkamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Ian\_D.Bergkamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ian_D.Bergkamp)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/4023 "2012-07-17T19:56:46Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Thanks. But is that the applicable statute in this case? Because it sounds from that language that these guys weren’t mandated reporters altogether. This refers repeatedly to “a child coming before them in their professional or official capacity”, which wouldn’t seem to cover kids who were not enrolled at PSU. Is there some other statute elsewhere which covers this situation? Yes, they were mandated reporters under [23 Pa. C.S. § 6311](http://law.onecle.com/pennsylvania/domestic-relations/00.063.011.000.html), which specifically identifies “school administrators” as persons required to report suspected child abuse (and, in case there’s any further confusion, the statute cited by **PacifistPorcupine** specifically references § 6311). ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/4024 "2012-07-17T20:10:41Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > “I just saw Sandusky raping a kid in the shower!” > > “That’s impossible-- he was investigated for that already, years ago!” > > “Oh… whew! Moving on…” Yes, what you saw was Jerry Sandusky exhibiting behavior that falls in a gray area. Trust me, it’s well documented. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/4025 "2012-07-17T20:13:24Z")
I thought Sandusky was exhibiting behavior in more of a… brown area. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/4026 "2012-07-17T21:26:20Z")
> [@Ian\_D.Bergkamp](#): > > Yes, they were mandated reporters under [23 Pa. C.S. § 6311](http://law.onecle.com/pennsylvania/domestic-relations/00.063.011.000.html), which specifically identifies “school administrators” as persons required to report suspected child abuse (and, in case there’s any further confusion, the statute cited by **PacifistPorcupine** specifically references § 6311). But does the term “school” apply to a University, especially one where there usually aren’t many children, but rather people approaching and over 18. If you could please cite the relevant source that indicates a University has the same requirements, that would be great. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/4027 "2012-07-17T21:30:23Z")
Also, if you could clarify how that applies to a child who is not “a child under the care, supervision, guidance or training of that person or of an agency, institution, organization or other entity with which that person is affiliated” (language of that statute) it would also be helpful. [I’m not questioning that these guys were mandated reporters, because they were indicted for it, but I’m wondering how this specific statute applies. Thanks.] ---
**Author:** ![Nauplius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nauplius/32/51_2.png) [@Nauplius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nauplius)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/4028 "2012-07-17T21:35:01Z")
“I just saw Sandusky raping a kid in the shower!” “That’s terrible! Was it a student at PSU in our care?” “No. I think it was a 10 year old.” “Oh… whew! Moving on…” ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/4029 "2012-07-17T21:52:53Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Also, if you could clarify how that applies to a child who is not “a child under the care, supervision, guidance or training of that person or of an agency, institution, organization or other entity with which that person is affiliated” (language of that statute) it would also be helpful. Would you care to argue that a child, brought to Penn State by Sandusky, who was working with them through his affiliations both with Second Mile and Penn State would _not_ apply? You’re just being willfully retarded here. That’s the statute that says you’re required by law to report suspicions of child abuse. Why don’t YOU argue that this situation was NOT covered by it, you disingenuous fucking douchebag. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/4030 "2012-07-17T22:11:38Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > [I’m not questioning that these guys were mandated reporters, because they were indicted for it, but I’m wondering how this specific statute applies. Thanks.] Actually on looking around a bit I have to retract this. Apparently it’s not clear whether these guys were mandated reporters, because they had no direct connection to the kids, which was required under the law at that time. Sources on the web all lead to [this](http://www.law.com/jsp/pa/PubArticlePA.jsp?id=1202530045139) article from the _Legal Intelligencer_, but it’s only available in Lexis Nexis at this time. ---
**Author:** ![Bartman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@Bartman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bartman)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/4031 "2012-07-18T00:24:51Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > (Note to some other posters: it’s on page 44 of the report, not of the PDF file.) OK… given that the PDF has the page numbers on it, I’m guessing that those should be the same as on any printer or other versions of the report. What version of the report are you looking at, that has different page numbers than the official report released by Freeh Sporkin & Sullivan, LLP on July 12, 2012? Can you please provide the full quote where, “Sandusky was cleared by the investigator in 1998, who concluded there was no crime and that he was not a pedophile.” Ideally provide the chapter, section and subsection as well. That way we can confirm your claims that “the investigator” (presumably Lauro?) concluded that there was “no crime,” that Sandusky “was not a pedophile,” and “cleared” him. Because I’m not seeing anything that is nearly that favorable to Sandusky. Instead I’m seeing comments saying things like “no criminal behavior established.” Which sounds a lot more like they simply couldn’t prove the accusations than that anyone was actively “clearing” Sandusky. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/4032 "2012-07-18T00:37:25Z")
F-P, just paste a link if it is to somewhere other than [this report](http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2012/images/07/12/freeh.report.pdf), which does not say what you claimed it said on page 44 (as labeled at the bottom of the page). Page 44 begins with the heading: “B. May 7-9, 1998: A Second Evaluation of the Victim” ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/4033 "2012-07-18T11:40:30Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > Timely (if unhappy) coincidence? The author of the Encyclopedia Brown books [died yesterday](http://www.boston.com/2012/07/16/entry-cont/psJfhyw5ra4FGjl6QmeeZP/story.html). Complete coincidence. Damn. Now I’m all bummed. I loved those books when I was a kid… ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/4034 "2012-07-18T11:50:27Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > Complete coincidence. Damn. Now I’m all bummed. I loved those books when I was a kid… As did I. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/4035 "2012-07-18T20:09:13Z")
[Middle school to paint over Paterno mural.](http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/paterno-mural-paint-over-134429679.html) You gotta see this-- Joepa’s got a halo, so they’d at least have to paint that out… And on Tuesday, a plane circled over the Penn State campus, dragging a banner that read: [“Take the statue down or we will!”](http://news.yahoo.com/video/us-15749625/raw-video-banner-demands-paterno-statue-removed-30012040.html) ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/4036 "2012-07-18T21:09:10Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Actually on looking around a bit I have to retract this. Apparently it’s not clear whether these guys were mandated reporters, because they had no direct connection to the kids, which was required under the law at that time. Ohhh, I want to do one: “I just saw Sandusky raping a kid in the shower!” “That’s terrible! Are you a mandated reporter, which under the law requires a direct connection to the kids?” “No. It was just some random 10 year old.” “Oh… whew! Moving on…” ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/4037 "2012-07-18T21:14:57Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Ohhh, I want to do one: > > “I just saw Sandusky raping a kid in the shower!” > > “That’s terrible! Are you a mandated reporter, which under the law requires a direct connection to the kids?” > > “No. It was just some random 10 year old.” > > “Oh… whew! Moving on…” Howzabout… “I just saw Sandusky raping a kid in the shower!” “Now, don’t be hasty. They may be rehearsing a play. I think one of the junior highs is doing “Deliverance.” Sandusky is probably generously helping the lad get the nuances of the ‘squeal like a pig’ scene.” ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/4038 "2012-07-18T21:20:16Z")
People are STILL trying to justify and defend these walking pieces of shit? Sickening. Disgusting. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/4039 "2012-07-18T21:45:48Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > People are STILL trying to justify and defend these walking pieces of shit? Sickening. Disgusting. From what I can tell it’s not “people,” it’s “person.” ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/4040 "2012-07-18T21:53:03Z")
Yeah, it’s a giant pile of fail. The sequence of defense is also really screwy, when you think about it. It’s like a 7 stages of denial. Stage 1: There’s no real evidence Sandusky did anything. In fact, it’s physically impossible. And JoePa and crew aren’t even involved. Stage 2: Well, Sandusky did something that might have been squicky, but it’s not entirely clear it extended to a textbook legal definition of child molestation or rape. There’s no reason that reporting is necessary. Stage 3: Ok, Sandusky did some bad stuff to kids, but JoePa and the fellas at PSU did what they were legally required to do when they found out. Stage 4: So, JoePa and the others found out kids were getting molested in the showers back in '98. But that got investigated in the end, so does it matter that they didn’t report it themselves? Stage 5: Hm. They didn’t report in '01, but Sandusky was “cleared” in '98, so they needed to make sure this wasn’t another false alarm. No need to report! Stage 6: Kids were getting raped but they were correct that it wasn’t their place to report it or make sure the right person reported it. And since they didn’t have a legal obligation and didn’t directly talk to the kids, they were “technically” lying about it. Stage 7: You guys are meanies, and I’m right! So, neener-neener-neener. At BEST, it’s **sophistry** taken to a ridiculous extreme and a willful blindness to people failing to live up to their own self-professed moral codes. At worst, it’s a defense of child rape. Some of the stuff in this thread has been as bad or worse than Italian legislators claiming women in tight blue jeans are physically impossible to rape or Arkansas gubernatorial candidates stating rape victims are relatively safe from getting pregnant due to the hormonal changes accompanying the stress. I’ve rarely been so disgusted at the depths of depravity to which humankind can sink. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167/4041 "2012-07-18T22:37:09Z")
**Bartman** & **Boyo Jim** , see post #3999 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167.md?page=201) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/its-time-to-officially-pit-joe-paterno-and-the-penn-state-football-program/602167.md?page=203)